m52 no spark?

[kevo]

Hola all, my swap is coming along fastly slowly anyway i put the lump in all wired in etc and flicked the key. she initially just clicked and sod all happened but i shortly realised i'd forgotten to put the earth strap on the engine doh.
anyway nipped that up and she cranked over quite slowly to begin with mind, and then as the oil got round the system she span a little freer. anyway this was all done with for now simply holding the e36 key by the ignition barrel until i get something permanent made up. however after turning it over several times with out it firing up (assumed i'm still putting fuel into the rail etc), it stopped cranking? i thought initially it was the key was in the wrong place or something but i tried it a few times and it no longer cranks?
any thoughts for me to try?
cheers
Kev

[kevo]

Just had a little play and i can feel the relay in the larger white ews unit clicking when it should? checked my battery connections and ground connection by the engine mount? seems odd as it was cranking one minute then the next it stopped?
kev

[craigieeb]

Flat battery?
alternator wired up properly?
connections on the starter nice and tight mate?

[kevo]

swapped the battery for a spare both seem fine though voltage wise, the alternator is wired up correctly as far as i can remember i'll check them all out tomorrow morning. seems strange how it stopped all of a sudden though?
cheers
Kev

[jimbob88]

Shagged starter?

[kevo]

came out of a running car supposedly, but it's not been confirmed. thats a sod if it needs changing although i have a 100% good one so i'll pop that on and go from there.
cheers for the ideas guys
Kev

[craigieeb]

When you try to turn it over next time, put your lights on and see if there is a "dip" in the beam,
I'm just wondering......... if the battery is draining


if your cranking, and the alternator isnt putting the juice back in to the battery for some reason, then i'ts not going to start,
but there should still be enough power for the EWS to click, which is what your getting,

Does the starter engage at all or not?

[kevo]

the starter did engage and turn the car over fully initially whereas now it doesn't crank the engine at all just clicks as it initially did when the earth strap was missing. i have just put the spare battery on charge to give it an over night boost to eliminate it totally.

i've just tried to put the lights on with main beam and dipped on and cranked it over and the lights don't alter at all and i just get a single click when the key turns like i did initially?

i'm thinking either the ews has become damaged somehow? or a relay has broken perhaps?
i'll try swapping the relays over in the morning?
Kev

[DanThe]

Have you wired the starter through the EWS then? No need for this

[kevo]

i followed the wiring diagram in the wiki mister, i don't think thats through the starter is it?
i'll try swapping the starter motor then next i think.

[kevo]

righto, i just changed the starter and she now cranks over properly, the old one was definitely defective.

however... i have no spark? i pulled a plug out and attached it to a coil pack and touched it against the galvanised strip that earths the coil packs, and turned it over and theres no spark present. i was careful to make sure the plug tip was touching both ends as the rubber end of the coil pack has to bend quite a bit to do this and i was concerned the plug would pop out but it definitely didn't.

anyway, i'm going to have another read through the posts etc but thought i'd put up an update in case anyone has any ideas?

if i have no spark but it cranks over does this sound like an ews issue?

cheers
Kev

[Brianmoooore]

Coil pack itself has to be earthed.

[kevo]

ah ok i'll go rig something up to try it now. how do you normally do it?
cheers
Kev

[kevo]

just tried it by rigging up a little earth strap to it and it still has no spark? it doesn't smell of fuel in the bore either even though the fuel pump appears to be working as theres fuel in the feed and return line although i haven't heard the pump actually running (i'm deaf so struggle to hear it). i'll go whip the seat out and see if it's getting juice when i crank the engine or put it to pos 2 on the ign switch.
if this isn't getting power i assume it's more likely to be ews related?
i have the ring/key/ecu/and the other ecu like part all connected up as per the link in the first instructions on the main page (unless i've made a simple mistake). and it came from a running car which i took apart so i know it's good.
it was a white boxed ecu though if that makes a difference but it still has ews II printed on it so i assume it's the same.
cheers
Kev

[e30-EVN]

no fuel, no spark is ews related kev! i had this with mine after it was working for a few days, turned out i needed a new key-ecu and ews modules......

[kevo]

hmmm i hope not, it was only removed from a known good car a few weeks ago. boo

update, definitely not getting the fuel pump running anyway just took the cover off etc and it's not running when the key is switched, but i can get it running with the power probe so it is working.

i'll re run through my ews wiring and see whats going on and if i've made a silly mistake fingers crossed

[kevo]

found a fault anyway, my green wire pin no 7 in the loom c101 plug wasn't reaching pin no 18 in the ecu therefore not allowing the car/engine ecu to get a signal. that is now rectified however still no fuel pump running and i'm guessing no spark either although i haven't confirmed this at the mo.
Kev

[kevo]

just checked the fuel pump relay and that is working as it should be, also put power to pin 87 to see if my pump wiring is good and it fired straight up (the pump) so i know that is ok.

it's all shouting ews fault but i've had a look through and i can't see what it could be?

[Quaser]

could also be cam and crank sensors as i had this problem in my e36 cab

[kevo]

ooh ok i'll switch them round now in case i got them mixed up, cheers for the pointer.
Kev

[kevo]

just had a go and you can't mix them up as they have different shaped plugs.
don't know where else to look now?
kev

[kevo]

checked my pump again and it appears that when i turn the key it is powered initially for a couple of seconds then it switches off?
does anyone know how it's supposed to behave?
kev

[DanThe]

Pump primes when ignition is turned on, then runs when the ECU sees the crank sensor pulses

[kevo]

ok then so this all seems to point to my ews not being wired up correctly or it's broken? i can't see how it would become broken though?
how do you bypass the ews? is this simple enough to do as i'd like to get the thing running asap and don't mind buying another ews kit (well i do really grr), if it's broken. but i don't want to buy something thats working fine.
i'm going to check the pins on the ecu plug to see if they correlate to what they should in case i have a break in the wire somewhere but i think this may be fruitless as it seems to be screaming ews.
cheers for your help, i hope i can get it running soon as i need a car
Kev

[DanThe]

I cant see why there would be anything wrong with the EWS as all the parts came off the same car, right?

[kevo]

yes all the parts came off the same car 100% and they were all working fine. my friend has just told me though that as it has been disconnected from the battery for a while (3 weeks), that sometimes it can need re aligning. he has a spare set down his yard on a car hes using so i'm gonna run down in the morning and pick them up and pop them on mine to see if it rectifies the issue. i don't really know what else it could be?
kev

[DanThe]

Ive had/got sets that have been sitting around for years and they work fine.

[kevo]

i was thinking that would be the case but hoping it wouldn't. i'll give it a try i think as quite frankly i don't know what else to try?

what else would prevent there being a spark and prevent the fuel pump running? the crank sensor wouldn't stop it running i don't think but i'm not sure if the cam sensor would or not?

[kevo]

just checked through the main grounds etc on the pins of the ecu, and i don't have a ground signal from the knock sensors or the camshaft position sensors? is this required? these grounds are taken from the body of the sensors. so i'm hoping that the ecu is not seeing them and this is what is preventing the spark and fuel pump cutting in?
kev

[e30-EVN]

faulty cam sensor will allow the car to run, albeit badly but if the crank sensor has had it i believe the car will not start due to the ecu needing the signal.... correct me if im wrong of course danthe lol

[kevo]

Thankfully it's all sorted now, in the end the ecu wasn't getting the correct start signal as pin 7 on the e36 loom had continuity to pin 6 also and therefore it wouldn't start. so i removed the ecu signal wire from the c101 plug and took it directly to the back of the ecu plug after removing the cover. after doing this is started right away.

so if you do this conversion and have a no spark / no fuel pump issue a simple thing to try is to take the green wire from the ews controller and instead of putting it through the c101 (main harness) plug, put it directly to the pin 18 on the back of the ecu.

hope this may help someone in the future as it took bloody ages for me to find it haha.

cheers for all your thoughts and suggestions by the way chaps, much appreciated and in a day or two it'll be back on the road hopefully after i make up the manifolds etc.

cheers
Kev