This true story will make you weep... E30 M3 3.2 Conversion

[Kos]

Do Zoom Motorsport still bodge that unequal length intake manifold on to clear the brake servo?

makes more power, so its must be good for a bodge job?!?

[ian332isport]

Do Zoom Motorsport still bodge that unequal length intake manifold on to clear the brake servo?

makes more power, so its must be good for a bodge job?!?

Never actually seen a reliable dyno plot that proves that.

[MFree]

Is that i have heard another S50 3.2 motor running that intake manifold and although you would think if it has an unequal length tube in there, it would sound unbalanced and rough, well, the motor i heard sounded so so smooth and was very lively in the horsepower deparment...

MFree

[Kos]

Is that i have heard another S50 3.2 motor running that intake manifold and although you would think if it has an unequal length tube in there, it would sound unbalanced and rough, well, the motor i heard sounded so so smooth and was very lively in the horsepower deparment...

MFree

that car you may be talking about might just be the "cock nob end" jason aka chiped uk. his old cabrio which he originally tried to pass of as his own work, is round my part of town now. it was making around 335bhp. but maybe it has had a proper remap from AMD???

[MFree]

edited...
Later

MFree

[Kos]

i'm not sure but that car did make good power. i've never been keen of "chipping" and he just keeps advertising off the shelf chips for e46 m3 and m5. the margins for error are so small and no 2 engines are alike so they need a propper re-map, so he's gone into that now!! and your not the first to tell me he's made a cunt of some ones engine. i dont know what muppets keep him in business?!?

[Kos]

Do Zoom Motorsport still bodge that unequal length intake manifold on to clear the brake servo?

makes more power, so its must be good for a bodge job?!?

Never actually seen a reliable dyno plot that proves that.

what would a "reliable" dyno plot be?
i'm not a big fan of using it and dont like the way it looks either but it works, and i'm not a fan of loosing the break servo like a lot of you guys do either, thats why when i built mine i relocated it lower down.
he's developed a kit so you can bolt that engine straight in to any e30 and it resonable money, yet he keeps getting stick. give john a break, he's got the balls to try and liven up the bmw scene with some of his work. rob may be frustrated having to wait this long, but he knows that when its complete it will be one of the best.

[buster]

a reliable dyno plot is exactly what it says.A car fitted with it tested on a dyno before and after or even just the after just so that we or any potential buyer will know the out put be it good or bad.I personally dont like the look of it and i know Ian just likes everything to look factory looking.We all still have servo's just different types.Also when you say when you built yours ,what car are you refering to ?? If its Dips's old car then the 335 engine was in when he bought it wasnt it,non turbo though i know.
Fair play to the guy though,i have never slagged his work and he has come up with a different way of doing the conversion which is great.I even considered using it myself.


cheers
andy

[ian332isport]

[what would a "reliable" dyno plot be?
i'm not a big fan of using it and dont like the way it looks either but it works, and i'm not a fan of loosing the break servo like a lot of you guys do either, thats why when i built mine i relocated it lower down.
he's developed a kit so you can bolt that engine straight in to any e30 and it resonable money, yet he keeps getting stick. give john a break, he's got the balls to try and liven up the bmw scene with some of his work. rob may be frustrated having to wait this long, but he knows that when its complete it will be one of the best.

I'm not knocking John or his work in any way. As far as I'm aware (never met the guy) he does a very good job to a high standard.

I'm just sceptical that the design of that intake can make more power than the standard setup. It looks like it was made purely to allow the S50 engines to fit in the E30 body without messing with the servo etc. It looks to have been made to a very high standard, and the welding all looks very good, it's just the design that I have a problem with. Surely if it was that good, John would have one fitted on his drift car ?

It has unequal length intake runners, so none of the cylinders will be working at their optimum at the same time. It doesn't have radius'd intake trumpets, and the intake on No6 cylinder is severely shrouded. I'm not sure the volume of the plenum is large enough either. It just has too many things wrong to make extra power (in theory). When I made reference to a 'reliable' dyno plot, I mean that I have never seen a plot from any engine with that inlet plenum fitted. I did once see a plot on another forum that was alleged to have been from the red Cabrio, but it was proved to be fake I believe (plot from a different car all together).

I think we should try and view this in a similar way to other discussions about different products. We are just expressing opinions on the product itself (good or bad), and not 'having a go' at the person who makes or distributes it.

As for brake servo's, I believe pretty much everyone with an S50 fitted is running a servo of one sort or another. All the people that I have assisted certainly are. John is certainly filling a hole in the market for people who want the conversion without spending time messing with the brakes though, and good luck to him.

Ian.

[tourerti]

Mfree I think you need to call Jay and stop listening to anyone else, in fact Jay has some real home truths to tell you so please call him on 07815-501867 and make sure you are sitting down.
What you are hearing is not the truth, in fact it is more like passing the buck.
Why not call Jay instead of slating him.

[bootyman]

Ho boy. This is about to turn interesting now. I've heard a few bad things about John as well, but i've stopped myself saying anything cause i dont want to be part of any he said, they said crap, and i think Mfree has suffered enough, but lets just say my mate is in the middle of Court action against him

[M5pilot]

Vin Deisel?

[pacerpete]

This thread could get good ! lets hope the mods are sleeping !

[Simon]

This thread could get good ! lets hope the mods are sleeping !

[Paul325i]

I'm not sleeping, but i'm watching and waiting...

[pacerpete]

Paul haven't you got a landrover that needs welding/ fixing/weighing ?

[E30BeemerLad]

was that the doorbell Paul........

I have no experience of any of the companies being debated here, but peeps should be careful of what they say in public forums in case they are not in possession of all the facts etc. Not blaming anyone by the way

[bootyman]

Beemerlad, that 'sexactly why i'm not saying anything mate. There's always 2 sides to every story and a Company could be seriously damaged by unfounded or uninformed accussations. I spoke to Chipped Uk earlier and he had some interesting things to say about Mfrees car and his version of what happened to it. As a fellow modder, i really feel for Mfree cause he's poured his heart and soul into this project and he's had nothing but pure bad luck and grief. Regardless of who's at fault, i just hope John finishes his car soon so he can at least look out at it on his drive and manages a smile. Gosh i feel beaten by what's gone on/going on and it's not even my car, so goodness only knows what it must be like to be the owner

[Kos]

[what would a "reliable" dyno plot be?
i'm not a big fan of using it and dont like the way it looks either but it works, and i'm not a fan of loosing the break servo like a lot of you guys do either, thats why when i built mine i relocated it lower down.
he's developed a kit so you can bolt that engine straight in to any e30 and it resonable money, yet he keeps getting stick. give john a break, he's got the balls to try and liven up the bmw scene with some of his work. rob may be frustrated having to wait this long, but he knows that when its complete it will be one of the best.

I'm not knocking John or his work in any way. As far as I'm aware (never met the guy) he does a very good job to a high standard.

I'm just sceptical that the design of that intake can make more power than the standard setup. It looks like it was made purely to allow the S50 engines to fit in the E30 body without messing with the servo etc. It looks to have been made to a very high standard, and the welding all looks very good, it's just the design that I have a problem with. Surely if it was that good, John would have one fitted on his drift car ?

It has unequal length intake runners, so none of the cylinders will be working at their optimum at the same time. It doesn't have radius'd intake trumpets, and the intake on No6 cylinder is severely shrouded. I'm not sure the volume of the plenum is large enough either. It just has too many things wrong to make extra power (in theory). When I made reference to a 'reliable' dyno plot, I mean that I have never seen a plot from any engine with that inlet plenum fitted. I did once see a plot on another forum that was alleged to have been from the red Cabrio, but it was proved to be fake I believe (plot from a different car all together).

I think we should try and view this in a similar way to other discussions about different products. We are just expressing opinions on the product itself (good or bad), and not 'having a go' at the person who makes or distributes it.

As for brake servo's, I believe pretty much everyone with an S50 fitted is running a servo of one sort or another. All the people that I have assisted certainly are. John is certainly filling a hole in the market for people who want the conversion without spending time messing with the brakes though, and good luck to him.

Ian.

i thought th same thing, unequal lengths to the TB's and no.6 runs a bit lean in these engines, but they seem to work with good results ?!?
every one does thing their own way, to make it as individual as possible.

[Kos]

a reliable dyno plot is exactly what it says.A car fitted with it tested on a dyno before and after or even just the after just so that we or any potential buyer will know the out put be it good or bad.I personally dont like the look of it and i know Ian just likes everything to look factory looking.We all still have servo's just different types.Also when you say when you built yours ,what car are you refering to ?? If its Dips's old car then the 335 engine was in when he bought it wasnt it,non turbo though i know.
Fair play to the guy though,i have never slagged his work and he has come up with a different way of doing the conversion which is great.I even considered using it myself.


cheers
andy

i had a e30 m3 cecotto, converted it to RHD and droped in the s50 about 3 years ago, broke it up, sold it on and it now the new owner has got the evo 3.2 s50 in it with lots of trick bits.

[stevetigger]

was that the doorbell Paul........

I have no experience of any of the companies being debated here, but peeps should be careful of what they say in public forums in case they are not in possession of all the facts etc. Not blaming anyone by the way

The fact is that you can say what you like on an open public forum. The law allows people the freedom of speech and all that, plus the opinion of a person is not always true. Also could you really see anything said on the WORLD WIDE WEB being admissible in a court of law. The sky today is going to be pink with yellow spots. That's an example! It's all just a discussion, like you would have with friends in your house! Just so happens that you type the words instead of speaking them. Would you tell your friends to watch what they say in your house?? Just a point I had to make! Sorry

[buster]

i had a e30 m3 cecotto, converted it to RHD and droped in the s50 about 3 years ago, broke it up, sold it on and it now the new owner has got the evo 3.2 s50 in it with lots of trick bits.

awesome,would love to see some pics of that !

[Kos]

i had a e30 m3 cecotto, converted it to RHD and droped in the s50 about 3 years ago, broke it up, sold it on and it now the new owner has got the evo 3.2 s50 in it with lots of trick bits.

awesome,would love to see some pics of that !

got some photos of the build, but they are 35mm film!!!
i'm still in contact with the new owner, i'll get some off him and up load them one day!!

[MFree]

im up to see John tomorrow to discuss everything as everything has stopped while we assess the project but, now, if ANYONE has any more to say to me about anything (as some things that concern me have been mentioned here like the court action...) i implore you please DONT write them here on the thread, please PM me so i can take them in before seeing John tomorrow, and please, everyone, heresay and rumourmongering is not cool, hard facts not opinion speak volumes and as i have said countless times, other than the overall delays ive experienced the QUALITY of Johns work is great...

I will have more light to shed tomorrow but as i said anyone wants to give me some broader perspective as i have nothing to go on but what I have no reason do disbelieve that John tells me, then please PM me with it ASAP. but I agree with bootyman, this 'he said she said' thing is crazy...

cheers

MFree

[fuzzy]

i thought i had a bad time with my engine conversion and mine only took 17 weeks instead of the quoted 3, but stayed pretty close to budget. i dont know what reasons he has for your delays, but there is no reason or no problem that cant be overcome relatively quickly, other than the fact that hes probably not bothering to work on your car at all and hes stalling for time wilst working on other cars. i think you are being far to understanding and theres got to be a cut off point and the time has come for you to start cracking heads good luck

[Moofles]

Also could you really see anything said on the WORLD WIDE WEB being admissible in a court of law.

Picky mode on, but yep! Remember the guy who got his girlfriend to take 3 points for him after he got flashed, then boasted about it online on some forum? Yeah, he got done....

[stevetigger]

Also could you really see anything said on the WORLD WIDE WEB being admissible in a court of law.

Picky mode on, but yep! Remember the guy who got his girlfriend to take 3 points for him after he got flashed, then boasted about it online on some forum? Yeah, he got done....

But where did you here that?? The net?? Once again.....people could have wrote that because they were jealous!! Unless you were in court with the guy??

[tourerti]

im up to see John tomorrow to discuss everything as everything has stopped while we assess the project but, now, if ANYONE has any more to say to me about anything (as some things that concern me have been mentioned here like the court action...) i implore you please DONT write them here on the thread, please PM me so i can take them in before seeing John tomorrow, and please, everyone, heresay and rumourmongering is not cool, hard facts not opinion speak volumes and as i have said countless times, other than the overall delays ive experienced the QUALITY of Johns work is great...

I will have more light to shed tomorrow but as i said anyone wants to give me some broader perspective as i have nothing to go on but what I have no reason do disbelieve that John tells me, then please PM me with it ASAP. but I agree with bootyman, this 'he said she said' thing is crazy...

cheers

MFree

In this case why didnt you contact Jay before you openly accused him of conning John when Jay is yet to be paid for the work he did for John and never at any point let John down.

[Moofles]

Also could you really see anything said on the WORLD WIDE WEB being admissible in a court of law.

Picky mode on, but yep! Remember the guy who got his girlfriend to take 3 points for him after he got flashed, then boasted about it online on some forum? Yeah, he got done....

But where did you here that?? The net?? Once again.....people could have wrote that because they were jealous!! Unless you were in court with the guy??

in the newspaper!! it was fairly big, it was in all the papers, bbc web site, etc! it's not a rumour/urban myth or anything...but i doubt you could be done for saying you did 150mph down the M25 - the killer in this case was that *his* car had been caught, so there was without doubt an offence, they couldn't do you if you said you were speeding and there's still no evidence.

Same reason you don't post videos that *clearly* show you, and then you speeding stupidly or something - you'll get done if the authorities can get hold of that video...(which is easy if it's online)

[stevetigger]

I put a photo on the net of me doing 135 in my old sport! [/b]

[MFree]

touerti - im not going to get into this on this thread, you have PM'd me anyway so this is just repetition - the bottom line is i had no REASON to doubt anything i was told, and because i witnessed the week long affair that occurred after this 'fine piece of remapping' which you are saying happened - you say he "never at any point let John down" so listen, if all went well and nothing was done wrong, then why was everybody not happy? Why did a new ECU need to be bought and why did the job need to be done again? If what you say is correct then surely everyone should have been happy right, because the new map would have done what it says it does on the side of the tin right?

Obviously not...

So explain why not then? If it was not the fault of who was remapping the car then what in your account went wrong?

MFree

[bootyman]

Mfree why dont you give J a call and hear his side of events? I did and like i said before, he has a totally different story to what John told you. Yes i agree that he would have a different story as he's the one being accused of fcuking up your car, but i've alwyas believed that when someone accuses me of something, it's best to listen to both sides, then get them together if i had to to clarify things. You'll find that a lot of people are brave and quiet strong in accusing someone whos not there, but once the person is there, they are no longer so brave and start trying to deny saying certain things. At the end of the day, you just want your car done and sitting in your drive, so i guess whatever you have to do to get it done, you have to do. Ho and i also agree about PM'ing you if anyone has anything constructive to say. It's all too easy for a thread to take a different course to the direction the author wants it to go

Good Luck Dude

[tourerti]

These are Jay`s own words.
If I had uploaded the wrong file the car would not have started, it would not have run perfectly AS IT DID and would of been left at johns place broke down.
With remapping you cant upload a file from one ecu type to another and expect it to run, the ecu would see the different language and shut down rendering the car unable to turn over.
This was not the case, I mapped the car and it ran perfectly.
Then john wanted an induction kit, but i didnt have the correct one, i only had one from the m3 with the 48mm maf as apposed to the one with the 55mm maf.
John bought this off me (which has not been paid for) and fitted it to the car.
I advised that he needed a bigger unit but john fitted it and cut the intake in half removing the air plicer in the standard air intake.
I am confident that this has not helped matters but either way, the problem was not to do with me uploading the wrong map.
It is impossible and i will stand here and be counted over this statement that it is impossible and urge anyone here unsure about this to call any respected tuning company in the world and ask them to confirm this to you.

I am not a scapegoat but it looks like this is what is happening.
The owner of the car is a good bloke, we have spoken to each other a few times and i await him to call me again and i also have the utmost respect for john who is a very clever bloke and well able to modify any bmw but the fact remains i did nothing wrong.

The e46 m3 uses a siemans MSS54 ecu as apposed to the roadster (which is what john says i uploaded) which uses siemans MSS50 ecu.
If you uploaded the wrong file either way round (which is immpossible as the equipment wouldnt allow cross mapping) then the car wouldnt start, PERIOD !!!!

Thats the way it is folks, check for yourself.

[Moofles]

not taking sides here, but i think i should offer this piece of information (if it applies, i'm not sure as you will see)

Clearly the MSS54 and MSS50 ecus relate to the S54 and S50 engines respectively.

The 'roadster' is mentioned, and the only roadster I can think of with an S50 is the M roadster - this is where I could be wrong (obviously the z4 roadster does not yet have the M engine, and in any case would not be the S50).

Now the important thing here is that the M roadster did come with the S54 too, but it was ever so slightly different - the main difference being a ~500 rpm lower rev limit compared to e46 M3s. This is the (main?) reason why it makes only 325-odd hp instead of 343.

I don't know what differences there are in the map, or whether it is compatible, or whether there are other changes...I only know the above, and that makes the possibility of mistaking an e46 map for an M roadster map a lot more likely than if the engines were S54 & S50...

[tourerti]

You cant write either software updates to the wrong ecu through the OBD which is how Jay did the car, the only way to have made this mistake would have been to flash the ecu itself which was not what was done.