Finally my engine time!

[Simon13]

yo yo yo!

My choice of going faster will be via the 2.7 route! why i hear u cry? cos i f**kin like them thats why!

I've got it off to the best start by getting hold of a complete Alpina C2 bottom end. So no eta wrongness here. mighty forged steel!!! I also have the rods and pistons.

I'm going to use the block out of my sport.

Ideas from u guys on camshafts, head work.

not interested in MAF,MBE and all that bollocks until i get the engine built and run in, which could be a while!

I've got a pucka 6 branch manifold sorted so thats covered!

I'm going to aim for 220bhp, cos there is only one way of doing these things!

botton end has been left outside for too long. So it started today with loads of wd40 in the rusty bores.

Should i get the crank knife edged or lighten the fly? or both. I'm not too sure myself

[ian332isport]

Simon,

The best all round Camshaft for the 2.7 M20 is a Schrick 284/272. It has a perfectly acceptable tickover, and still pulls well from low down. You could go for a 284/284, but it won't be so nice for a daily driver.

I would leave the crank alone, and probably not even mess with the Flywheel. Lumpy cams and lightweight Flywheels make for a nasty tickover. If you are not bothered by this, then the throttle response would probably be a little better.

Ian.

[Ant]

get the crank repolished and leave it at that Si, forged stuff does not like being re-machined in any way

you got the C2 pistons too ?

[Simon13]

yup got the pistons good polish for them too?

[M5pilot]

You should have no problem getting near 220bhp.

Ian is right about the cam - 284/272 best option for you and defo get the flywheel lightened.

ETA Wrongness? Karans engine has ETA and nothing wrong with that.

The Alpina I Bought to Aces has no better spec than that engine and is only marginally quicker and thats probably down to Mapping alone. NOTE: Alpina has BTB manifold.

Head work is essential - Bexleys out source their head work I dont know who they use but they do a fine job - did well on Scotts car. Maybe speak to Griffin motorsport who again have done a great job on the GUG head.

MAF/MBE bollox? Whys that then? Expensive yes but the MBE is briliant.

Megasquirt woud be my personal choice due to its lower cost but it will still be near enough MAF money once youve paid for someone to map it.

Most important thing is the compression ratio. With C2 pistons and a block which is of the same height it shuld be the quoted 10.2:1 which is high enough.

Hope it goes well and once its done I'm sure you'll be quite satisfied.......until one day you see a big tank of an E34 behind you .....

[Simon13]

i want to do the other stuff once i have the engine in and run in, then start on what ever i should use, be it megasquirt/MBE and all that

[M5pilot]

Forgot to say, look into fitting total seal rings aswell. They are not alot more money.

[Jhonno]

I would lighten the flywheel personally.. altho it will make tickover a little lumpier it will make a big difference in the 1st couple of gears to more than make up for it

Get some headwork done as well - will work well with the cam

[chip-3door]

Other side effect of a lighter flywhell is the revs drop a lot more between gear changes. (easily cured with a flick of the throttle as you change down though ive found )

[Jhonno]

yeah - but i blip the throttle most of the time anyways

[chip-3door]

Ps

utterly no idea why you seperate knife edging the crank and doing the flywheel as an either/or

do you actually have any idea at all what knidge edging a crank is or why you would want to do it?

[tylerma]

nice one Si get that engine done mate

if there is any help i can give
just give me a shout you got my number (I think)
will chat with you at the Ace anyway

[Demlotcrew]

Ps

utterly no idea why you seperate knife edging the crank and doing the flywheel as an either/or

do you actually have any idea at all what knidge edging a crank is or why you would want to do it?

The reason hes separating knife edging the crank and doing the flywheel is because the distribution of mass around the axis of rotation is just as important. So simply comparing the masses does not give the complete picture.

Andrew

[Jhonno]

Knife edging the crank is to help it thru the oil tho not lightening..

mass removed further from the centre has bigger effect

[Demlotcrew]

Knife edging the crank is to help it thru the oil tho not lightening..

mass removed further from the centre has bigger effect

dude most cars that make use of knife edging the crank run dry sumps!

Andrew

[M5pilot]

Get it built and in and then we can go to the ring and run it in!

[Andy335Touring]

Some one elses picture but this is knife edging for those that don't know what it is

[Simon13]

could i get this lump to rev to 7.5 grand and make power or is this optimistic for an engine i want to be usable like and everyday hack?!

[m-dtech]

could i get this lump to rev to 7.5 grand and make power or is this optimistic for an engine i want to be usable like and everyday hack?!

i hope so, mine is coming along nicely

Just got this to do;

1.Gearbox to bleed
2. PAS to Plumb up
3. Cooling system to connect, rad to fit
4. Loom & ECU to fit
5. Exhaust to fit inc manafold

And all the other shit that goes along with it.

[Simon13]

so quite alot of pissing about then mate!

i say 7.5k because the forged crank i have can take it all day long the eta crank that everyone else uses can break, although no one has heard of this happening. It could in theory!

turbo anyone? i have the right crank

[M5pilot]

You'll need some lairy cam and special pistons to get to those rpms and make power.

Driveability will also suffer really badly unless you use throttle bodies like the ones dbilas makes.

With the amount on money you'll spend achieving that you might aswell fit a M3 EVo 3.2 engine which peaks at 7900 rpm and is extremely driveable every day. Oh, and its a reliable 300bhp aswell!

Have you considered doing this? Go and visit Ian332i and ask him to take you out. Ive not been in anythign so impressive so far. Even in 6th gear @ 30mph the car pulled very well.

Add up all of your costs on the 2.7 conversion and it may well be the same as doing a 3.0/3.2 engine. You could go one better and fit a 3.8 M5 engine with 347 bhp and nearly 300 lb.ft torque!

[Simon13]

coolio. Right had an engine lesson with demlotcrew earlier.

"we" took my alpina bottom end apart today after leaving the bores with wd40 in them for over a week. As they were quite rusty.

Crank is in great condition, showing very little wear on the shells or the crank in all places. The biggest problem with this is...........the woodruff key broke off. So my dads mate will cut out either an oversize key hole or fill that in as such and make a new hole. This is how i see it!

I'll get my dad at work to measure the big ends and main journals and find out what size they should be and see if standard size shells can be used.

Pistons are also quite clean but i need to soak them in something for a while to clean them up? any ideas heros? petrol, gunk?
We managed to remove these without really putting any scores in them.

Just waiting to get the paperwork off the seller to see what car it came out, which will be good for verification and interesting also!

Overall in my team of experts eyes the everything is showing signs that this engine was well looked after.

Oh if u are wondering what happened to the alpina head, it's in Jit's old 325i Cabby!

My next questions for u all is on head work. I need to get the head welded to strengthen it up, to try and minimize the risk of cracking.
This would be aluminium welding right? My dads friend can do all this i just need to tell him what needs doing i think? any ideas folks?
Waterways and cam journals?

The conrods seem very thin too. I'll post up some pictures 2moro!

[Dan318-is]

i left my m20 pistons in degresant for a week and was able to get the carbon off with my nails and a simple scurbbing brush using no effort at all

it really was that easy.

was there a lot of play between conrods and pistons?

[dlatch33]

chip your a legend

Si
low comp and boost is the future save the money and fit a standard cam and get a turbo conversion would work well on a low comp 2.7

[Simon13]

Not u aswell! very tempting would be a crazy chariot. plus no one seems to have done it......because of the lack of forged cranks i wonder?!

[dlatch33]

Si
u have the crank to take the boost use if wisely

we need a high boost M20 lump on here and a 2.7 is perfect for the job i think.
don't waste money on lightweight flywheels and lumpy cams just build up the engine as standard with a worked head and a hybrid T3 turbo.

i seen and been in a few of the 2.7 converted cars and in N/A form they have not impressed me
Ants low boost turbo would beat them everytime
so for sure the high boost version will be even faster

[Jhonno]

Not had a ride in Karan's beasty then?

[dlatch33]

nope not had a ride in karans
what power is it putting out?

[Jhonno]

220bhp and similar torque iirc

[ian332isport]

nope not had a ride in karans
what power is it putting out?

Duncan,

Not sure if you ever went in it, but it's Ste's old car.

Ian.

[dlatch33]

Ahh yes i remember that car

i still stick by my not impressed with 2.7 N/A power then

i went in the white one owned by michael we convoyed to santapod with Ste
and michaels was faster and was supposedly putting out 240bhp then.
seem to remember ste had issues with his at the time though.

Fact remains the turbo is the way forward no doubt about it.
if i was building a high power E30 i would be chasing power by going 2.7 and N/A its not much power for lots of money just does not make sense imo.

[Simon13]

i am thinking more and more now. I suppose my pistons that are in my 2.5 which are 8.5:1 would be ideal. Lowest compression pistons there are, bar buying custom ones.

Has anyone ever heard of a 2.7 turbo? As u need the forged crank, which are very rare in them selves.

[Simon13]

Another one of my concerns, is the drive train. 2.7's N/A are bad enough on diffs,gearboxes and props. Karan has done 2 of each since owning his!

plus bushes dying every other week.

Braking is another big issue with this sort of power. As a standard size setup with upgraded disks etc is just not going to be up to it. I like my 15 bbs's and 16 alpina's and woldn't want to lose these for a bigger disk/caliper setup!

Can an E30 handle it in all that power in all honestly?
2.7 N/A at 200bhp or over are a really fun car IMO

[ian332isport]

Another one of my concerns, is the drive train. 2.7's N/A are bad enough on diffs,gearboxes and props. Karan has done 2 of each since owning his!

plus bushes dying every other week.

Braking is another big issue with this sort of power. As a standard size setup with upgraded disks etc is just not going to be up to it. I like my 15 bbs's and 16 alpina's and woldn't want to lose these for a bigger disk/caliper setup!

Can an E30 handle it in all that power in all honestly?
2.7 N/A at 200bhp or over are a really fun car IMO

Simon,

I think you will find the drivetrain will be okay. I'm putting out over 300bhp, and have had no problems in the last 4 years. I think the problem with Karan's failures are the way the car is used (no offence meant to Karan here). He's not your average driver, and does 'use' the car somewhat . If Karan's car was totally stock, he would probably still have had failures

Brakes are something you are going to think long and hard about. If you are making big power, then you NEED bigger brakes - end of..

I think the 15's will have to go, but you can still get a 300mm disk inside a 16" rim.

The E30 can and does handle big power. As long as you match all the mods (engine, brakes, suspension etc), then you will be fine. If you skimp on any of them then you may well be disappointed.

If you are ever down my way (or fancy a visit), I'll take you out in mine. Someone once said that my brakes could stop time

Ian.

[Simon13]

Cheers Ian,

Your right braking is so important.

I think the only part i have covered is suspension, similar to yours with hartge 22/18 roll bars. Plus all new bushes.

Might have to research into something that works with 16's. Buster is looking into this too so he tells me. Is this the main reason u switched to 17's? I assume u were using smaller rims before the 3.2

Ant has told me he has gone through 3 gearbox bushes the big one right up next to the gearbox with 6 holes in it!

I'm in 2 minds now, as i love the idea of both