Elephant/admiral group insurance - things you should know!

[M5pilot]

I have been looking through Elephant's terms and conditions. Elephant is part of the admiral group and their terms are the same.

Here's an alarming point!

The terms state that if your car is a total loss the policy is automatically cancelled. IN order to continue your insurance with them you have to take out a new policy.

I decided to phone them about this as my Tournig is insured with them.

It turns out that if say I took out insurance today and my car were written off tommorrow I would not be able to just go out and buy another car and insure it on the same policy as they would have cencelled it.

I would still be liable to pay the whole premium aswell!

To get insurance on a new car I would need a new policy.

When I put it to them that this is totally unfair they said they would discunt the new policy. On asking them by how much they couldnt give an answer and it could be as little as 5 % off.

How the regulating bodies can allow this is beyond me.

If you think your getting a cheap quote off this group think again - there is a massive downside to it aswell.

You have been warned!

Oh, and also notice that they are only the cheapest when the excess is bumped up to a stupid level.

Scenario - your 325i sport worth say an agreed value of Ԛ£3000 is written off.
You bought insurance yesterday for say Ԛ£900.

You would be faced with paying the Ԛ£500 excess, the full Ԛ£900 premium and then have no policy to show for it all either!

[Jhonno]

shit!! never realised that!

was with them a couple of years ago

sorted through Performance Direct now

[BrAdZ]

hmmmmm they didnt cancel my policy last march when i wrote my capri off....

Im still miffed..... its still going through..... after i smashed up the car i broke it for parts, they never even came out an inspected it, yet asked me for pictures of it last week (i provided them)

There hopless, i have phoned elephant 3 times now to change my address, and i get put through to some fucking indian that cant understand a word im saying GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR,

But they tried to make me pay the full amount..... as i cancelled it 2months before it was going to end.... even though i paid 2x months in advance.... still arguing over that about them. twattttsssssssssssss

[M5pilot]

They just doubled my premium for the renewal.......idiots.

I have major issues with the indian call centre they have aswell. They dont understand a word you say and if you ask something that isnt on their stupid scripts they read something totally irrelevant out to you. Its so much bol**cks!

[M3Imy]

I was insured with Elephant when my M3 was written off last year. I was 6 months into my policy. The policy was cancelled at that point. When I insured my M Coupe with them they took the full value of the remaining policy on the M3 and applied it the M Coupe so I did not lose out. They explained this would happen when I asked them during the claim.

The indian call centre is damn sh!te though.

[316eyes]

Slightly off topic but I've just been on to Tech Support for HSBC Internet Banking (India),

Initial call was taken by Sherry (Sherree?). Tech support guy was called Nigel!!!!!!!!!

Who do they think they are kidding.

What should have been a 2 minute call took ten as I kept having to ask them to repeat nearly everything they said.

Have you ever tried reading the full terms and conditions of a car insurance policy? Scrambled brains or what?

[E30BeemerLad]

the whole indian call centre thing will have it's day eventually. So many insurers have "offshored" many areas of their business.

These people in india are all graduates and do their best, but there are such cultural differences not to mention the language barrier that they do their best in the circumstances. It is crap though and very frustrating.

They get to pick english names and no thought goes into it at all, blokes pick female names, it's fucked up maan. They have pictures of "english life" hanging around in the call centres, pictures of village greens with the red phone box and Austin A35 parked nearby.

Insurers do all this to save the Ԛ£Ã”šÃ‚£Ãƒ”šÃ‚£Ãƒ”šÃ‚£Ãƒ”šÃ‚£. The staff out there get paid about Ԛ£2K a year and that's a princely wage out there too. But it will all backfire on them unless these stupid issues of scripts and people not having a clue what they are on about aren't resolved. But when have insurers ever really bothered truly focusing on customer care. I have spent 10+ years dealing with RTA claims and there has been no improvement whatsoever

[JOSEMI]

E30BeemerLad wrote

Insurers do all this to save the Ԛ£Ã”šÃ‚£Ãƒ”šÃ‚£Ãƒ”šÃ‚£Ãƒ”šÃ‚£. The staff out there get paid about Ԛ£2K a year and that's a princely wage out there too. But it will all backfire on them unless these stupid issues of scripts and people not having a clue what they are on about aren't resolved. But when have insurers ever really bothered truly focusing on customer care.

You're right mate. I remember a few years ago a complete call centre for American Express in Brighton (around !,000+ people) were "sacked" because the company moved this department to India.

In the end, as in the car insurance companies you mentioned above, the service is worst AND the Terms & Conditions of the policies are worst too, while the prices go up... where do we stand here for Christ sake !!!!!!!!!

[316eyes]

Read in the paper this week that Abbey Bank is scrapping it's Indian call centre and bringing it back to the UK. Let's hope they don't re-locate the workers!

I remember seeing a documentary on TV last year where they showed the training of Indian call centre workers.
They get their (English) names off a big board at the front of the room!

And they showed them a couple of episodes of Corrie & Eastenders so that they knew what English life was like?????????????

[Gwynleym10]

HSBC have been accused of illegal working practasises in their Indian call centre (and thats against indian law not british- so it obviously pretty bad!). Well what do you expect from a company who have been know to pass bribs to Saddam Husein and who have completely crippled our rail network. Should check who you investing your money in!

Off topic anyway!

Insurance is a rip off full stop, you will never get your money's worth. But nice work Sal finding that out.

Lee, are they any "good / ethical / costumer focused (rather than profit)" insurance companies around?

[E30BeemerLad]

Direct line used to be a very good company but their standards have slipped since they became so big, basically Direct line is owned by Royal Bank of Scotland and the brands include Direct Line, Privilege, Chirchill, NIG, UK Insurance which underwrites Tesco, Citroen and loads of othre affinity schemes.

Budget Insurance are a broker but are not PLC and are big on customer service, but may not be the cheapest.

One of the only Mutual insurers left is NFU oh and oyu've got CIS which is a co-operative but that's pretty much it.

In reality there are only about 5-10 insurers in the UK now when you get down to it.

[Pal318is]

I was with elephant....and there absolutely crap...I found you only got put through to call centres in india after a certain time, so if I ever needed to speak to someone then I would ring in the morning....Elephant were charging me just over Ԛ£700 fully comp, with all the secret additional cost included, i'm now paying Ԛ£320 with the secret addidtional costs...Where's the logic!

[M5pilot]

Another thing that really gets to me. I dont know if its just elephant or all of them;

They ask you about all the optioanl extras your car has. You tell them everything and the price goes up.....ok, fair enough.

Ask them this though. If your 325i had leather seats as an optional extra and your drivers seat were to be stolen, what would they replace them with?

The answer you would get is (In indian accent)

Sir, we would replace them with the standard item.

So, you pay extra for having the leather seats yet they would give you a cloth standard seat to blend in with the rest of your leather interior.

Damn crooks!

[DubsterNI]

Hey guys, i've been with admiral now since i was 18. I'm now 20 and have found that theyre ok to deal with! The reason i'm with them is that no insurance companies would even look at me here in NI when i went to get my Golf Mk2 GTI 16v insured when i was 18 or my Mk4 Golf. One guy actually laughed and said 'no chance of gettin that insured mate'. So thats y i've stuck with admiral, i just drive real careful altho i know its other drivers i have to look out for.

PS my premium is not below Ԛ£2k. You guys r pretty fortunate on the mainland!!!!!

[Brianmoooore]

Sir, we would replace them with the standard item.
So, you pay extra for having the leather seats yet they would give you a cloth standard seat to blend in with the rest of your leather interior.
Damn crooks!

I find that difficult to believe.
Non standard extras maybe, unless specifically included in the policy, but surely OE equipment from the options list will be replaced like for like, up to write off threshold point.
If you have metellic paint, you wouldnt expect it repaired with new panels in non metallic of the same colour.

[M5pilot]

I have asked them this question so many times and they have come back saying the same thing.

They will not replace optional extras.

I like your paint arguement!

In the real world it would be very hard for them to wriggle out of it once they recicve a solicitors letter and you threaten to expose them.

[nav786]

my policy is running out soon and was looking to go with elephant. now hearing all these problems i have real doubts. i want to get an agreed value, so who's best? i know there all wan*ers really

[E30Adam]

Unfortunately I am insured with this company (Elephant) and so was my girlfriend when she wrote her Fiesta off. As Sal quite rightly states, they cancel your policy if the car is a total loss. Becky only had her policy for a couple of months so she ended up losing most of the years premium when her car was declared a write off. They did infact discount the price of a new policy but it was only a few percent so we told them to stick it and her motorsport is now insured elsewhere.

Someone hit the back of my car in July and I still haven't been given the go-ahead to have it repaired by them. They are totally useless. They are amongst the cheapest insurers but you get what you pay for and I will never again be insuring my car with them. Their call centre is based abroad somewhere and their staff can barely speak a word of english. You can tell they have prompt cards to read off whilst on the phone to them because if you ask them anything slightly out of the ordinary they haven't a clue what you're going on about.

AVOID THEM AT ALL COSTS.

[Dan318-is]

adam thats a harsh story

sal some very good research your doing mate

amongst all this, can anyone actually identify a good insurance company thats not underwritten etc?

iv been with direct line and nationwide, both have nbeen good so far

we will se how nationwide fare in the current IS saga though

[M5pilot]

Norwich Union are simply brilliant.

Before Elephant I had indurance through them for 5 years. I had a car stolen and one written off and a few years ago vandalised (East London)

They pay out almost immediately and when it comes to repairs they get it booked in straight away. Expensive yes but simply the best.
When it came to paying for a total loss they are realistic and Autotrader ads do work first time round with them.
Another company to avoid is liverpool victoria - DO NOT GO NEAR THEM!

Most of our cars can be insured through Adrian Flux, HIC and Heritage as classics. Very cheap and they again pay out when the time comes but no where near as fast as Norwich Union. You also get agreed value policies.

Elephant? Id rather be insured with monkeys.

[Bob_S]

I found NU to be a royal PITA! my fiesta was stolen from a bodyshop back in may, they messed about and offered silly low amounts for it it took 3 months to get a anything from them. I then withdrew the claim and decided I would claim through the garages insurance and this took even longer I have just been paid out the book figure of the car which was satisfactory but I only got this because I threatened legal action on the company and themselves

[M5pilot]

Maybe they aint so good at all then. I must have got lucky.

They are all theives anyway!

[jonb]

whats wrong sal? looking into doing a "job" on your new m5?

[M5pilot]

haha!

Naa, just some general dissussion about insurance.

You should buy my 3,6 - its got proper suspension on it aswell.

[Dan318-is]

il buy the engine of you sal

[andrewe30m3]

I've been with elephant for a couple of years - have been happy but touch wood, have had no accidents so...

however renewal came up and elephant wanted 500 quid fully comp for my 328i sport (I'm 25), so quoted with admiral ... Ԛ£388. thats a fair bit of difference from the same company.

jokers... but got to have insurance, so go figure.

Tesco Insurance were the jokers, but dont get me started!!

[Nostrils]

Glad I am not with Elephant now. My first year quote was excellent but the renewal is way off (getting back the discount they gave me the previous year to get my business). I am now with a broker through the BMW Car Club magazine, they are not computerised and I have to say, not the best company to deal with as everything takes so long....

..anyway, their price was better than Elephant by Ԛ£100 and the policy is underwritten by NIG. Admiral, Tesco, Bell Direct and most of the others dont want to know! especially when LHD.

Insurance is becoming way too unfair IMO, the insurance ombudsmen and Assoc. of British Insurers (ABI) are supposed to be the regulators and the governing bodies, but who do you think pays their wages, who helped set them up.......Thats right, the insurance companies themselves.....No conflict of interest then! by @rse

As for asking about optional extras, my answer is simply "I dont know, the car is 15years old and IMO is standard - Their paperwork just says 'Standard', so I write back confirming what I said on the phone (as above). Should I ever need to claim, they cannot just dismiss their statement of 'Standard', should say for example the Air Con is damaged (in germany, if you get A/C, they tend not to have a sunroof and vice versa - so what is standard, 1 option for another!!)

Insurance companies and their policies are just "Invisible Gatso Camera Partnerships" sucking us motorists dry - If we spit in the wrong direction, they wont pay out!

Rant Over!!

[E30BeemerLad]

Insurers are regulated by the FSA.

Being an RTA lawyer I myself am well aware of the practice of analysing the info given at the time of a quote/proposal to what actually exists when a claim is made. When the dreaded question is asked" are there any modificaitons to the vehicle?" and as far as I am aware it is standard, i reply "not to my knowledge"

Insurance policies are contracts of "upmost good faith" meaning there is a reliance on the info given by a punter when evaluating risk. If you don't play it straight then there is a breach of this "faith" and they reserve the right not to indemnify.

Even with mods and optional extras declared, most policies operate a standard for modified policy when paying for repairs. So unless specified and agreed for instance a H&R Cup Kit on a Sport would be replaced with Mtec unless you agreed to contribute.

There is a difference in dealing with insurers as a customer and as a third party lawyer, but from experience, NU are one of the worst for response times etc, but they are all a disgrace really. The Direct Line group have always been one of the best to deal with in my experience.

[Lordschleife]

Someone hit the back of my car in July and I still haven't been given the go-ahead to have it repaired by them.

Same thing happened with me a few years back when I was insured with them, after someone hit my CRX up the back while I was waiting at a roundabout.

[Cotty]

Can I just say that it probably isnt a good idea to be openly slagging of companies on an open forum, it could get the site shut down

A cheap policy is just that cheap.

Put it this way you want to buy a sofa, do you buy a cheap mass produced sofa that will only last a year or do you spend more on something that will last for 10 years. You get what you pay for.

I have spoken to some of the people who work in motor insurance companies. These are the people you speak to when getting a quote. They havent a clue about insurance and are not required to have any insurance inqualifications. Their screens are the same as you would find when getting an online quote when you fill in all the details yourself. This is why when you deviate from the set menu's they are unable to help and also why they do not allow modifications.

You are not dealing with an underwriter, they are only alowed to work from set perameters.

I think that the sort of people on this site who have modifications should steer clear of the big guys and seek out the smaller independant companies that are capable of insuring modifications and agreed values.

I would be interested to hear who Bootyman is insured with and what the policy covers. I bet he hasnt got a policy that will replace modified with standard

[PeteE30Tourer]

Just to add my two-pence worth - i went with Admiral this year as they were far cheaper than anyone else even with minimum excess (and i did shop around quite a bit). Every time i've had to call them, i've got straight through to a human - and an English one at that. They insured my second Tourer for a month, then offered to refund half of that when i sold it after 2 weeks - without any admin charge or anything - quite impressed by that.

Haven't had to claim yet thankfully (touch-wood!) and haven't read the small print (who does these days?), but as someone else said - you can only expect to get what you pay for at the end of the day.

[M5pilot]

Just to add, my insurance for the M5 is only Ԛ£600 fuly comp! Thats cheaper then my 325i touring!!..How bizarre!

Sal

[Mahmood]

Just to add my little bit.

I am with Performance Direct and they have been very good in terms of pricing. I have declared all mods. and I am told that they would be replaced with stock BMW items with me paying any extra for any upgraded aftermarket bits of kit.

I have been insured with Admiral in the past but that was years ago. To be honest, I have never made a claim on my own policy and that is the real test.

In terms of general insurance, I have always found sympathetic brokers who are far more sensible in terms of quotes than a computer programme and some operative in India.

[Cotty]

Just to add, my insurance for the M5 is only Ԛ£600 fuly comp! Thats cheaper then my 325i touring!!..How bizarre!

Sal

How much are you paying on the tourer. Im only paying Ԛ£350 fully comp.

[E30Adam]

I have spoken to some of the people who work in motor insurance companies. These are the people you speak to when getting a quote. They havent a clue about insurance and are not required to have any insurance inqualifications. Their screens are the same as you would find when getting an online quote when you fill in all the details yourself. This is why when you deviate from the set menu's they are unable to help and also why they do not allow modifications.

You are not dealing with an underwriter, they are only alowed to work from set perameters.

That's not true. I have worked for several insurance companies and my girlfriend does it for a living.

They have very different systems from what you see online and all insurance companies will have an underwriter who are usually based in another dept and are not telephone based.