Tips for Nurburgring

[Theo]

Yeah, 30mph over the better bits. I think a coach overtook me last time! Like F4stjay says, it's well worth it for the drive through the stunning Eifel countryside.

I highly recommend coming to the trackday if you can, would be cool to exchange passenger laps.

[Motorhole]

If you are absolutely insistent on timing laps, purely to get an idea of your pace, set up a camera and then time the videos later on when you play it back. Can you still set up cameras there?

[f4stjay]

If you are absolutely insistent on timing laps, purely to get an idea of your pace, set up a camera and then time the videos later on when you play it back. Can you still set up cameras there?

Any video equipment you're caught with will result in you being kicked off the circuit but that doesn't mean you can't mount a covert bullet-style cam somewhere but they have cracked down on that a lot recently.

[Simon13]

Surely lap times are key?

key to f**king what? Your there on TF to have fun not try and be Hans Stuck or end up like Nikka Lauda

best tip which no one ever mentions? Drive within your limits.

When your on the ragged edge trying to go quicker than your talent allows, you end up crashing or dead. I've been queing to get on the track when fatal accidents have happened, not funny and all for what half the time? To be an extra 5 secs or whatever quicker.

8/10 never more on the ring on TF

Key to beating that 10mins (i'm guessing this is the average target?)

I can't see the point in going there for "a nice drive". That's what Wales is for.

You think those Porches and the like are there for a nice drive? I doubt it. They are there to beat the time they set last time?

I'm pretty sure i have read a thread on here with someone saying they got their laps down to 8:47 or something like that? Surely he/she done this by trying to better the last lap?

Oh and what's TF?

Have you been? if not shut up because you don't know what you're talking about

[mattrs]

Oh and beware of vans parked by the side of the road close to the ring, they may be speed camera/traps (I learnt the hardway)

[winx]

If you are absolutely insistent on timing laps, purely to get an idea of your pace, set up a camera and then time the videos later on when you play it back.

That's what we did last time we were there. Last lap si and I had a sedate final lap:
[youtube][/youtube]

[ruja98]

If its wet (it rained alot when i was there ) drive with extreme caution, its like driving on black ice. I took a 535 and it was wheel spinning in 3rd coming out of some corners, 3 up, luggage in the boot, suffice to say, i took it easy because the fear of a big bill!!
Loved every minute though, saving up to go again.
Taking the E30 next time!!

[e21Jason]

I think the key is enjoy yourself and drive within your limits, if you feel your on the edge then back off, when i was there last month a guy in a English reg transit was having more fun the than the gaggle gt3 rs's.

It is a German public toll road which is one way, the normal rules of the road apply it is not a race track or track day.

The xbox etc is fine for giving a idea of change of direction but gravity takes over pretty quick. The faster experienced drivers will pass you any where so keep an eye on the mirrors.

Drive it pop your cherry soak up the experience there is nothing like it, leave the lap times honing your lines till the next time.

[TheHeap]

key to f**king what? Your there on TF to have fun not try and be Hans Stuck or end up like Nikka Lauda

best tip which no one ever mentions? Drive within your limits.

When your on the ragged edge trying to go quicker than your talent allows, you end up crashing or dead. I've been queing to get on the track when fatal accidents have happened, not funny and all for what half the time? To be an extra 5 secs or whatever quicker.

8/10 never more on the ring on TF

Key to beating that 10mins (i'm guessing this is the average target?)

I can't see the point in going there for "a nice drive". That's what Wales is for.

You think those Porches and the like are there for a nice drive? I doubt it. They are there to beat the time they set last time?

I'm pretty sure i have read a thread on here with someone saying they got their laps down to 8:47 or something like that? Surely he/she done this by trying to better the last lap?

Oh and what's TF?

Have you been? if not shut up because you don't know what you're talking about

Ok sailor. I haven't been and that's why i am ASKING these questions.

I thought there was a clock/barrier you go through at the start and one at the end?

[f4stjay]

Ok sailor. I haven't been and that's why i am ASKING these questions.

I thought there was a clock/barrier you go through at the start and one at the end?

For fear of this turning into a thread where everyone rips chunks out of someone and loses sight of the questions/advice the OP asked, the best thing to do is not to time yourself around the 'Ring.

There are barriers you have to go through when entering the circuit but none when coming off the circuit (unless you simply want to carry on for another lap). These are not timing barriers and there is not official timing set-up there. It is a public toll road and not a racetrack therefore on TF (Touristfahren) days it is not a trackday, simply a day to drive your car around the track.

Those who come back and brag about their times will end up in the barrier one day. The GT3RS and GT2(RS) drivers are usually rich guys with not a great deal of driving skill or talent, made to look good by virtue of the engineers at Porsche. They buy a GT3/2RS because they can...

If someone is absolutely insistent on timing their lap my advice (and it has already been mentioned on here) is to set up a camera (where it won't get caught by the marshals) then watch the video back when you get home to the UK (or wherever you're from).

If a person insists on timing their lap and it goes tits up it's not necessarily just themselves they are putting in danger it's everyone else around them on the track too. People die on that circuit and when you see it and hear about it standing in that car park at the entrance the mood changes, everyone stops to think for a minute about whether it really is worth putting their own and other people's lives at risk for the sake of bragging about shaving a second off their time when they get back to the pub with their mates.

I'm not having a go at anyone but I'd rather not see a thread drift from the original point and result in someone being laid into for making an ill-advised comment.

The Nordschleife is the best experience anyone can have in a car but it is fraught with danger if you're unprepared or reckless!

[andyp]

You might do calais to the ring and back on a tank of fuel, its going round the ring youll do a tank in just a few laps!

its a big might as you will do a tank EACH way its 350+ miles each way,

ive been going now for the last 7 years and as said, scrap the idea of lap times [you will crash] just go out there and enjoy yourself, keep an eye in your mirrors and if summink comes up behind move over to the right hand side and let them past, if it rains sit tight and let the idiots go out and crash, it diries up really quick after, a long weekend for us is just short of a £1,000 all in, that is for me and the mrs by car or bike its works out about the same,

dont try and be charlie big bananas on the track as you will come unstuck very fast, just enjoy it, also watch out for the flags to warn you of crashes round the next bend that you cant see.


i would also recommend dropping your tyre pressures before going on track as i didnt do this and my pressures went up to 60psi and was spinning 360 degrees.

[andyp]

was not going to post this, but this is what happens when you try to beat the clock, and yes we have tried it a few times [learn the hard and expensive way] wont post any of the others pics of other accidents as they are not very nice.





this £15,000 car we had to leave behind

[bullwinkle]

Gutted dude. Hope everyone was OK.

[f4stjay]

Nice Sport in the background

But I really feel for you Andy, I've seen far too many flatbeds come back with KO'd vehicles on the back...Mate had to leave his Boxter behind on one of our trips. Horrible feeling!

[andyp]

that is in the back ground was a weapon round the track, it left my 2.5 cab and stayed with the M3 through the bends, saying that it had all pukka suspension and toyos fitted

[f4stjay]

That's the mistake people make around there, they assume more power = faster lap times! Wrong wrong wrong! The fastest car I've even seen around there was a Fiat Uno Turbo!! It certainly wasn't standard but it still went around faster than the Carrera GT that was there too...GT owner was gutted!

[dombrett1]

get track day insurance ! well worthy i reckon, covers you for pretty much anything that could go wrong !

[Theo]

get track day insurance ! well worthy i reckon, covers you for pretty much anything that could go wrong !

I don't think such thing exists for Touristenfahrten on the Nordschleife (it's not a trackday)

[f4stjay]

get track day insurance ! well worthy i reckon, covers you for pretty much anything that could go wrong !

I don't think such thing exists for Touristenfahrten on the Nordschleife (it's not a trackday)

There used to be a couple of companies that did it for TF days at the 'Ring but that was a couple of years ago now.

With the emergence of so many hire car companies around the circuit offering cars to hire for such little money (relatively) which include insurance I'd imagine there's not as big a market for it now as before...

[Theo]

Yes but I think that was 1st party only and therefore, in the grand scheme of things, pretty useless.

[f4stjay]

Good point, never used to bother with it myself to be honest. Insurance policies used to expressly exclude TF days at the Nordschleife so if yours didn't you were (technically) insured whereas now they have to expressly include the 'Ring!

[Morat]

How did they manage that? If you're insured for road use, and it's a public road (albeit a one way toll road) surely it is up to the insurance company to list it as an exclusion?

edit:
hmm, after a bit of reading... it looks like you can get some third party cover if you battle for it.
http://www.leeds-solicitors.com/nurburg ... rance.html

Is it true that you have to have insurance to drive on the ring?

[f4stjay]

They class it as time trials I believe (or one of the other very similar exclusions that can be interpreted to cover anything they decide they don't want you to do after you've bent your motor!), that way they don't have to expressly exclude it.

I will just qualify what I meant...I didn't mean they have to expressly include it but the practice now is for that to happen thus, by leaving it out, they don't ever have to pay anyone out.

[Theo]

Generally your policy document will have an exclusion such as 'prepared course'....

In August 2010, the Ombudsman made a final decision regarding a case concerning the Nurburgring Nordschleife. He found that the Nordschleife is a one way toll circuit with all the characteristics of a 'prepared course'. The insured's policy excluded use on a 'prepared course' which was held to be neither unfair or unreasonable given the increased risks associated with driving in such places. The insurer agreed to meet any third party liabilities but this did not mean that the driver was driving within the terms and conditions of his policy. The Ombudsman said that UK and European law requires insurers to provide a minimum of third party only cover even if their policyholders are using the insured vehicle in a manner which invalidates their own-damage cover.

[f4stjay]

Is it true that you have to have insurance to drive on the ring?

Your car has to be road legal and comply with the German ADAC requirements for road use (such as MOT, road legal exhausts etc...)

I don't know how strictly this is enforced but I have seen bikes with noisy cans turned away at the barriers.

I can only assume that they would require you to have insurance to the minimum required standard for German road use.

[Morat]

http://www.nurburgmotorsport.com/Insurance.html

Would that be useful? £99 for one day of max 8 laps. It doesn't cover your car or anyone else's car - but it does seem to cover armo, towing, closure etc.

[andyp]

most of them now say EXCLUDING the ring on them

[f4stjay]

I was under the impression that having two insurance policies running on the same vehicle is frowned upon by insurers. And when I say frowned upon I mean grounds for refusal/cancellation of your policy (as you could potentially claim on both policies, thus committing insurance fraud).

I'm not sure how you would stand on the basis that you would be excluded from claiming under your standard policy by virtue of the policy itself and therefore wouldn't be caught out by that.

I would imagine the company looking to provide the insurance for the 'Ring would have taken legal advice on the matter I just recall it not being permitted for someone to take out one of the seven day "drive away" policies when buying a car from a dealer if it would be running alongside an annual policy.

If anyone here is an insurance expert then clarification would be useful on that point.

[Theo]

http://www.nurburgmotorsport.com/Insurance.html

Would that be useful? £99 for one day of max 8 laps. It doesn't cover your car or anyone else's car - but it does seem to cover armo, towing, closure etc.

That doesn't cover against the biggy - damage to other people and/or their cars. Potentially hundreds of thousands of pounds worth if something tragic happens.

[Theo]

most of them now say EXCLUDING the ring on them

My policy doesn't, nor does it exlude 'prepared courses' or 'de-restriced toll roads' or any other ambiguous term which may relate to the Nurburgring.

I'm still not willing to risk it though.

[f4stjay]

http://www.nurburgmotorsport.com/Insurance.html

Would that be useful? £99 for one day of max 8 laps. It doesn't cover your car or anyone else's car - but it does seem to cover armo, towing, closure etc.

That doesn't cover against the biggy - damage to other people and/or their cars. Potentially hundreds of thousands of pounds worth if something tragic happens.

+1! Very relevant!

My policy doesn't, nor does it exlude 'prepared courses' or 'de-restriced toll roads' or any other ambiguous term which may relate to the Nurburgring.

I'm still not willing to risk it though.

All they have to do is ask you how the accident happened then (provided you don't lie and tell them you were mincing around at thirty when a GT3 ran up your chuff) based on what you say they'll find you to have been undertaking a time trial, race, rally, pacemaking event and you'll be in breach of contract...

Their lawyers will always be better than yours!

[tomislav]

First time me and my mates went one of us phoned his insurance company to take out insurance for the 4 day trip... they asked for £3500!!!!!

Suffice to say he didn't bother

Just don't go faster than you're happy with.

And as for timing, i throw a stopwatch in my door card jsut for interests sake really, i forget about it till the end usually. Its nice to beat your best lap but more importantly is coming home in one piece.

Take it easy and you'll be fine

[mattrs]

Is it true that you have to have insurance to drive on the ring?

Your car has to be road legal and comply with the German ADAC requirements for road use (such as MOT, road legal exhausts etc...)

I don't know how strictly this is enforced but I have seen bikes with noisy cans turned away at the barriers.

I can only assume that they would require you to have insurance to the minimum required standard for German road use.

They don't check for insurance or any document or even sound testing. They don't evem make you wear a helmet!

That was what struck me the first time i went (aside from how awesome it was) i.e. no safety briefing or checks or real rules (as such, i know there are but there not really in forced well). Just pay and go....crazy really, supprising it hasn't been shut down. Sooner or later it will be imho the TF days atleast!

So if you havn't been get out there because its truely a must do before you die and within a few years it will be track days only!

[mattrs]

wont post any of the others pics of other accidents as they are not very nice.

You should imho! I will post a few aftermath crash pics from there later too.


There was an e36 m3 crash pic/ vid going about where the engine was ripped clean out of the car, be good if some one had a link??


Not trying to scare any one off, just emphasizing the risks if you push too hard! When you go you will see crashes, sometimes on almost every lap

Its the combination of 70+ corners that take a lot of learning, blind crests, dips and strange cambers and no run off area on the vast majority of corners!

[f4stjay]

Is it true that you have to have insurance to drive on the ring?

Your car has to be road legal and comply with the German ADAC requirements for road use (such as MOT, road legal exhausts etc...)

I don't know how strictly this is enforced but I have seen bikes with noisy cans turned away at the barriers.

I can only assume that they would require you to have insurance to the minimum required standard for German road use.

They don't check for insurance or any document or even sound testing. They don't evem make you wear a helmet!

That was what struck me the first time i went (aside from how awesome it was) i.e. no safety briefing or checks or real rules (as such, i know there are but there not really in forced well). Just pay and go....crazy really, supprising it hasn't been shut down. Sooner or later it will be imho the TF days atleast!

So if you havn't been get out there because its truely a must do before you die and within a few years it will be track days only!

That's exactly the point though. It's not a trackday so they don't need to do safety briefings. As soon as they start with safety briefings, helmet requirements and the like, they are admitting that it's a trackday and they will incur HUGE liabilities. By not doing any of that they don't have any responsibility at all.

The marshals there do sound tests at various points around the track and if you pull up to the barrier with an obviously illegal can/exhaust you will get turned away (I've seen it happen). It is a public road so technically the police will also get involved in the event of an accident, although I would call into question how strictly that is enforced. As a result if they do get involved and find your car to be un-roadworthy for whatever reason you will lose any parts of your car that are left after you've bent it (along with the possibility of criminal charges if the circumstances are sufficient to incur them).

Sounds a little dramatic but that's the reality.

As for your final sentiments I would echo them in their entirety! It's an amazing place that I think anyone who loves driving should visit at least once in their life.

I will post a few aftermath crash pics from there later too.

I would suggest that if you're not the owner of the car which has crashed then don't post them. I'd say it was in bad taste and also insurance companies monitor forums for photos of cars at the 'Ring. Just my humble opinion.