Do I own my e30? or am I just the registered keeper?

Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:22 am

I have come across information that apparently I do not legally own any of my cars as I by signing the registration document handed over the legal right to my property to the British government and made myself the keeper only. I have been informed that as long as I adhere to the conditions of the contract to keep the car taxed, mot'd and insured whilst using the public highway the police can not take my car from me and not crush it without paying market value or any other compensation.
Anyone know if this is true, because if it is, I feel that my property has been "stolen" by deception, as at no point was I told that I was giving right of ownership away.

Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:39 am

It has always been the case that the v5 only means you are the registered keeper. If you paid for the car then yes it is yours, but in court you would need other proof. Balls is it not. So yes the goverment can seize your car and get away with it.

Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:41 am

We're all slaves to those clever bar stewards in power

Just turn a blind eye and keep paying your taxes

Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:42 am

Were you given this advice on Friday morning, by any chance?

Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:49 am

zaust wrote:It has always been the case that the v5 only means you are the registered keeper. If you paid for the car then yes it is yours, but in court you would need other proof. Balls is it not. So yes the goverment can seize your car and get away with it.

Hi Zaust, Sorry, I am confused, if I am the owner then my property cannot legally be taken away from me and destroyed without compensation otherwise this would surely be classed as theft?

Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:54 am

cecotto479 wrote:Were you given this advice on Friday morning, by any chance?

No, I was not told this as an April fool joke.

Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:54 am

Put some pics up of the so called M plate touring before anyone can give you some solid advice.

It smells of BS

Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:56 am

kieran325 wrote:Put some pics up of the so called M plate touring before anyone can give you some solid advice.

It smells of BS

I am fed up of you calling me a liar, I dont give a stuff if you believe me or not, would a picture prove that I own the car or would you like me to send you a copy of my log book?
I bow to your superiority.

Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:58 am

Have I called you a liar ??

Post a pic so we can take you seriously after posting the random guff above.

Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:13 am

Right. If you own the car, you own the car. The end. The name on the registration document is only an administrative contact. The "registered keeper". If you can read, you should be able to spot something on the V5c to the effect that, " the registered keeper is not necessarily the legal owner".

Nobody can take ownership away from you without your consent.

If you drive it without insurance and get caught or in some other cases, it can be taken into "custody" until you pay any fines or release fees. If you don't pay them, it can be sold or crushed to recover the costs, but you'd be certifiable to allow that to happen to such a rare and valuable car.

Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:13 am

i truly owned my 318is when the m42 was in there

Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:18 am

Kieran, why do you and some other people on here try to use the zone as a place for bullying and to ridicule other zoners? Is there something missing in your life or are you trying to make yourself look big?

Your argument centers on whether or not I own a M reg e30. Why is that so difficult to accept? because you dont have one? Is it really such a big thing to own an m reg tourer? How does me posting a picture of the car change anything, it does not prove that I own the car only that I can take a photograph, I simply can not be bothered setting up an account with imageshack or such other so I can prove to you that I have said car. I am seriously getting sick of having to defend myself on here, I am only on here to learn more and to help if I can, not to have to stand up to small minded people like yourself.
Please would you be good enough to explain why my valid question is "guff" what ever that means?

Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:24 am

Another area where confusion may arise is that you never "own" your registration number - however much you paid for it. That is used on licence. It can be taken from you in certain circumstances.

Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:37 am

e30mreg318i wrote:Kieran, why do you and some other people on here try to use the zone as a place for bullying and to ridicule other zoners? Is there something missing in your life or are you trying to make yourself look big?

Your argument centers on whether or not I own a M reg e30. Why is that so difficult to accept? because you dont have one? Is it really such a big thing to own an m reg tourer? How does me posting a picture of the car change anything, it does not prove that I own the car only that I can take a photograph, I simply can not be bothered setting up an account with imageshack or such other so I can prove to you that I have said car. I am seriously getting sick of having to defend myself on here, I am only on here to learn more and to help if I can, not to have to stand up to small minded people like yourself.
Please would you be good enough to explain why my valid question is "guff" what ever that means?

A "M" reg E30 would be of great interest to many on the Zone as they're quite scarce - there are only a handful I've seen. I'd be very interested in some pictures of the car.

Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:41 am

e30mreg318i wrote:Kieran, why do you and some other people on here try to use the zone as a place for bullying and to ridicule other zoners? Is there something missing in your life or are you trying to make yourself look big?

Am I bullying you ?? I've made a comment which in my eyes is not a form of bullying, I'm merely interested in the so called M plate touring you keep posting about, post the pics or it will continue like the so called M3 barn find episode.

I'm not big and I'm not clever, I'm a low life peasant 4 pot owner who reads the guff that gets posted, it helps me through my day.

So crack on with the pics

Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:46 am

[quote="cecotto479"]Right. If you own the car, you own the car. The end. The name on the registration document is only an administrative contact. The "registered keeper". If you can read, you should be able to spot something on the V5c to the effect that, " the registered keeper is not necessarily the legal owner".
Nobody can take ownership away from you without your consent.

As I understand it all centers around the contract. In law a "person" is a document, i.e a birth certificate, but as it is only a piece of paper it needs a human to represent it, the human representing it must first answer its name,address and date of birth, this is to establish "joinder", with out joinder being accepted no contract can be made.
On the front of the v5 it clearly states in large letters
"This document is not proof of ownership,it shows who is responsible for registering and taxing the vehicle"
You make yourself responsible when you register the vehicle with the Dvla, you fill out the form entering your name and address (just spotted that you dont have to by law enter your dob, surely then no joinder has taken place which would mean no contract??)
then send the document back to the Dvla for it to be a contract between you and them, this is when allegedly you loose title the the property.
I am not or do I pertain to be and expert on law, I asked the question in the hope that someone could help me and everyone else understand.

Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:10 am

Generally speaking, the invoice that you received when you bought your car (or anything else) is the only proof you have that you own your car. Its realy quite important to get a receipt for cars you buy, with proper information on it, like certified addresses, prices, details of the car etc.

Its almost as important too, to ask a seller if you are buying a car, for their receipt too, to hopefully prove that the car is theirs to sell.

Being the registered keeper is a very good start, but in law it doesn't prove ownership.

Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:26 am

Can we please keep this on topic?
Much as I would like to see pics of an M reg Touring, this is not the thread in which to discuss it.

Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:57 pm

Morat wrote:Can we please keep this on topic?
Much as I would like to see pics of an M reg Touring, this is not the thread in which to discuss it.

Ok....final point to add on the subject boys'n girls....

I saw pictures of this tourer yesterday (Sunday) when this chap came to pick up some wheels I had for sale.....it does exist, and it is M reg........

Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:59 pm

The bank owns my sport

Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:29 pm

e30mreg318i wrote:
zaust wrote:It has always been the case that the v5 only means you are the registered keeper. If you paid for the car then yes it is yours, but in court you would need other proof. Balls is it not. So yes the goverment can seize your car and get away with it.
Hi Zaust, Sorry, I am confused, if I am the owner then my property cannot legally be taken away from me and destroyed without compensation otherwise this would surely be classed as theft?

I missed out if you are on the road illegelly, then they have every right to take it and charge for it's relase or crush it. So they can't just take it off you for no reason.

Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:33 pm

@ Zaust, Quote
"I missed out if you are on the road illegelly, then they have every right to take it and charge for it's relase or crush it. So they can't just take it off you for no reason."

No mate the car is fully "legal" I have been driving for 20 years with never so much as a parking ticket, always obeyed the law.

I'm just trying to establish if I own the car as I really do n't want to spend time and money maintaining a collection of cars if I don't own them, I'll just keep my campervan and the wifes e30, after all who would spend money customizing a rental car?

I can understand that people will be very angry at the thought that they may not own the car, the problem is that the legal profession use a language called "legalese" and a word that has a meaning in English language is not always the same in legalese, i.e a person in legalse is only a form (piece of paper) not a human being, it needs representation which is often achieved through deception (legally!!!).
I really do hope that we ALL own our cars as alot of money and time has been spent on our passion!

Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:40 pm

Alex wrote:The bank owns my sport

Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:40 pm

zaust wrote: I missed out if you are on the road illegelly, then they have every right to take it and charge for it's relase or crush it. So they can't just take it off you for no reason.

I had a car dumped near my property, not on the road but not SORN. They took it, don't know if it was crushed but its no longer there.

Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:47 pm

What is your authority for the proposition that you don't own your car, the government does? Is it something that has a rational basis, or did you dream it on a magic mushroom trip? Are you a Russian asylum seeker?

Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:54 pm

magpie wrote:i truly owned my 318is when the m42 was in there

OWNAGGEEE!

lol

Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:03 pm

cecotto479 wrote:What is your authority for the proposition that you don't own your car, the government does? Is it something that has a rational basis, or did you dream it on a magic mushroom trip? Are you a Russian asylum seeker?

Sometimes it is better to be thought of as an idiot, than to open your mouth and confirm it for all the world to see...

Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:26 pm

No. You've lost me - and not for the first time in this thread.

Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:13 am

e30mreg318i wrote:
cecotto479 wrote:What is your authority for the proposition that you don't own your car, the government does? Is it something that has a rational basis, or did you dream it on a magic mushroom trip? Are you a Russian asylum seeker?
Sometimes it is better to be thought of as an idiot, than to open your mouth and confirm it for all the world to see...

Actually that is quite a good retort

Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:20 am

It is a shame that this thread has broken down to people trying to show others how clever they are, I asked a question that if true (as I believe) has huge implications and I believe that I should share information as important as this as a personal duty to all others.
If anyone wants to do their own research on my question regarding ownership then a search on the internet for John Harris (freeman) illusion 2 will allow you to make up your own mind.
I will continue to research myself with the Dvla and will report back when I have fully understood the legal position.

Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:41 am

I asked you what you based your concerns on and you cite some weird conspiracy theory video.

Nobody is trying to show anyone how clever they are. Certainly not you. You are doing a very good job of giving the impression - to me at least - that you are wired to the moon.

Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:58 am

The answers given in this thread are perfectly reasonable and the vast majority are accurate.

Ownership (legal title) is not inherently linked to the V5C document, as has been pointed out to you already it records an administrative procedure of nominating a registered keeper who has certain statutory obligations and rights, but not legal title.

Therefore to prove legal title you "should" have a receipt or invoice which proves that you (you being a person identified only by a name and perhaps address, which in itself could problematic) have handed over a sum of money (known contractually as "consideration ") in order to gain legal title of the car in a contractually binding transaction with the former owner.

If you don't have this and someone challenges your legal title to the car you will have to fight the challenge with whatever other evidence you can find, (bank records, declarations from the vendor, winesses etc.)

The notion that the government, big brother, Stalin or Fidel Castro may "own" your car are nonsense, although possibly a good basis for discussion. Elsewhere.

Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:53 am

In simple terms,so that the OP can understand them,DVLA rent you the right to operate your vehicle on the public road.

If you are in breach of these terms,ie,you fail to buy rent,insurance,MoT etc,plod now have the ability to remove your property from the public highway.

In even simpler terms,keep the paperwork up to date and you will have no problems operating your property on the public highway.....

Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:08 pm

WTF, Its your car, you paid for so its yours, stay within the law and it won't get taken of you, im amazed people (m reg owner) is stressin about it, its yours until you sell it pal!

Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:29 pm

i think it's something along the lines of i may have paid for my car but it could be in my fathers name for example so he is the registered keeper and is responsible for taxing and insuring it etc and keeeping it within the guidelines of the law. i'm no legal eagle but this could possibly help with the technical wording of things?
kev
(not a lawyer or solicitor but a grubby bloke in his garage)