0-30W Oil

[JOSEMI]

Any idea if it works ???
Tried to post it previously but no results !!!

[E30Mark]

Works at what???

wouldn't fry my chips in it...

Wouldn't put it in my engine either!

Depends what car you got, how hot / cold it is where you live etc.

It's too thin in my opinion for most cars with a few miles on the clock...

Have a look at the oilman thread somewhere in the tech section.

P.S you need to give a little more info when asking a question, otherwise people will just ignore the question and move on

[JOSEMI]

Info posted in my Oil recommendations thread above... (or below in the latest post...) The stealers must be losing their minds then

[oilman]

Info posted in my Oil recommendations thread above... (or below in the latest post...) The stealers must be losing their minds then

I wouldnt use a 0w-30 in a e30, these are the longlife oils designed for the later model BMW's on variable service.

If you want to use a synthetic in the e30 then a good 5w-40 is what is needed.

Cheers.

[JOSEMI]

Nice one thanks it has been an oddisey
Cheers !

[Bob_S]

i got recommended this too and questioned the guy then asked one of the technisions in the back and all said the same so...

I bought some 15w/40 Fuchs from ECP runs much better than on 10w/40 magnatec

[JOSEMI]

Yeah, he said to me: "any synthetic will do less harm than mineral based ones... we use 0-30W"
What the f... He was talking about my car as it if was an old steam train the idiot, he didn't even look at me when he was responding, it made me doubt of his knowledge quite frankly... I am going to see if a fully synt 5-40 as advised will do, perhaps from Mobil 1,
Do you recommend 15-40 then ??

[Bob_S]

it seems to run better but I think 10w/40 would be a better option just not magnatec.. and avoid cheap oil, because it's nasty BM recommend castrol so try find some castro 10w/40?

[JOSEMI]

I am going to try Mobil 1 0-40W, after lots of research and reading your trheads again and again... so will give it go to the new synth.

Before that I will probably clean my engine with some 0-20 or 0-30 for a few minutes and flush the dirt out of it... I want the best for mine now and
I have the feeling this is going to be a treat. Will probably post the results in a couple of weeks and see how it goes.
But at the first sign of lazyness or over fuel-burn will change over to the popular 5-40w.

Thanks for your threads they are great.

[m-dtech]

to be honest you can debate oil viscositys all day long.

if its wet and changed regulary the difference to your engine is negligible.

[orangecurry]

yeah that

use a good middle-of-the-road oil like Castrol GTX and change it every 6 months

[Bob_S]

change every 6 months? I do it when the oil lights go out! which is about 3 months lol

[JOSEMI]

to be honest you can debate oil viscositys all day long.

Exactly... (that's why I opened the thread, I consider it quite important

[garyp_E30_325i]

If you use the wrong oil you can do your engine damage, particularly if you drive fast

I've checked a few places, including a BM specialist who races an E30 M3 himself, they all said the same thing: must be semi-synthetic and 15W40 is best.

So I dumped the 10w40 fully synthetic and gone with the semi 15w40 for the past two services, everything has been sweet, and the oil is half the price!

[JOSEMI]

youre right, the wrong oil can do some damage...
as per my thread above, I have done some research, and going to opt for a 0-40 this time, fully synth from mobil. My car has done quite a few miles, and will clean in first with some 0-30 of 0-20 for a quarter of an hour or so.

I don't tend to drive too fast, the engine in my car has not one modification, and so I believe it is -and feels- a bit "sleep". Its 18 almost 19 years old and still feels like a rock, but is time to take serious care about the oil.

Apparently semis can do more damage than good in old engines due to their mineral nature, and oilman above recommended fully sunth also.

It is quite a debate as our forum mate said right above
Jose

[orangecurry]

change every 6 months? I do it when the oil lights go out! which is about 3 months lol

apologies - what I should have said was change it twice as often as you HAVE to - I do a very low mileage in mine hence the 6 months

[orangecurry]

Apparently semis can do more damage than good in old engines due to their mineral nature, and oilman above recommended fully sunth also.

I'm confused - these engines were designed to use mineral oil; synth wasn't generally available in the 1980s

How can mineral be bad in old engines?

[Kramer]

Apparently semis can do more damage than good in old engines due to their mineral nature, and oilman above recommended fully sunth also.

I'm confused - these engines were designed to use mineral oil; synth wasn't generally available in the 1980s

How can mineral be bad in old engines?

I think thats what he means. Putting synth oil in a car thats run on mineral all its life can cause problems.

On the other hand, mineral oil doesn't provide the same protection as synth oil.

[orangecurry]

my understanding (poor as it is) is that mineral oil doesn't offer as good protection for as long as synthetic oil does, as the long H-C chains break down quicker - shorther chain molecules are not as 'slippy' as long chain ones....

therefore change your cheaper (but just as good to start with) mineral oil more often, and not only is the 'slippiness' retained, but also you flush out the crap more often.

The temp/operating RANGE of any oil is a different argument....

[JOSEMI]

Yup that's what I meant... it is explained in the Articles section about oils. Synths are the latest oils and offer better performance and protect the engine for longer.

The stealers use fully synth in 'old engines' as they assured me that they protect better the engine, although judging by the way they explained this to me I doubted this would be an absolute rule.

as orangecurry the molecule chains break more easily on mineral based oils.

I have never tried synths in mine and its time to give them a go.

(I also found out in my research that a sudden change from mineral to synth oils is not advised and this should be done gradually)

[Kramer]

how do you do it gradually?

[JOSEMI]

Its all in the Articles, in the 'Oil Bible' link.
You change the oils by using a semi synth first and then a fully synth.
The link also explains that if you have been using a mineral based oil, the seals are soaked in mineral oil, and thus by changing suddently to a synth one the engine may tend to leak...

[Kramer]

I can't see the oil bible in the Articles section.

[JOSEMI]

sorry m8 youre right: Links setcion/technical/Engine oils.

I believe you found it earlier.
Jose

[oilman]

Synthetics can be used and are beneficial.

I would look for a decent 5w-40 synthetic for these older cars. Here is some light reading which explains the benefits:

The basic benefits are as follows:

Extended oil drain periods
Better wear protection and therefore extended engine life
Most synthetics give better MPG
They flow better when cold and are more thermally stable when hot
Esters are surface-active meaning a thin layer of oil on the surfaces at all times

If you want to know the reasons why then please read on but, warning - Long Post!

Stable Basestocks

Synthetic oils are designed from pure, uniform synthetic basestocks, they contain no contaminants or unstable molecules which are prone to thermal and oxidative break down.
Because of their uniform molecular structure, synthetic lubricants operate with less internal and external friction than petroleum oils which have a non-uniform molecular structure.
The result is better heat control, and less heat means less stress to the lubricant.

Higher Percentage of Basestock
Synthetic oils contain a higher percentage of lubricant basestock than petroleum oils do.
This is because multi-viscosity oils need a great deal of pour point depressant and viscosity improvers to operate as a multigrade.
The basestocks actually do most of the lubricating. More basestocks mean a longer oil life.

Additives Used Up More Slowly
Petroleum basestocks are much more prone to oxidation than synthetic oils. Oxidation inhibitors are needed in greater quantities in petroleum oils as they are used up more quickly.
Synthetic oils do oxidize, but at a much slower rate therefore, oxidation inhibiting additives are used up more slowly.

Synthetic oils provide for better ring seal than petroleum oils do. This minimizes blow-by and reduces contamination by combustion by-products. As a result, corrosion inhibiting additives have less work to do and will last much longer in a synthetic oil.

Excellent Heat Tolerance
Synthetics are simply more tolerant to extreme heat than petroleum oils are. When heat builds up within an engine, petroleum oils quickly begin to burn off. They are more volatile. The lighter molecules within petroleum oils turn to gas and what's left are the large molecules that are harder to pump.
Synthetics have far more resistance as they are more thermally stable to begin with and can take higher temperatures for longer periods without losing viscosity.

Heat Reduction
One of the major factors affecting engine life is component wear and/or failure, which is often the result of high temperature operation. The uniformly smooth molecular structure of synthetic oils gives them a much lower coefficient friction (they slip more easily over one another causing less friction) than petroleum oils.
Less friction means less heat and heat is a major contributor to engine component wear and failure, synthetic oils significantly reduce these two detrimental effects.
Since each molecule in a synthetic oil is of uniform size, each is equally likely to touch a component surface at any given time, thus moving a certain amount of heat into the oil stream and away from the component. This makes synthetic oils far superior heat transfer agents than conventional petroleum oils.

Greater Film Strength
Petroleum motor oils have very low film strength in comparison to synthetics. The film strength of a lubricant refers to it's ability to maintain a film of lubricant between two objects when extreme pressure and heat are applied.
Synthetic oils will typically have a film strength of 5 to 10 times higher than petroleum oils of comparable viscosity.
Even though heavier weight oils typically have higher film strength than lighter weight oils, an sae 30 or 40 synthetic will typically have a higher film strength than an sae 50 or sae 60 petroleum oil.

A lighter grade synthetic can still maintain proper lubricity and reduce the chance of metal to metal contact. This means that you can use oils that provide far better fuel efficiency and cold weather protection without sacrificing engine protection under high temperature, high load conditions. Obviously, this is a big plus, because you can greatly reduce both cold temperature start-up wear and high temperature/high load engine wear using a low viscosity oil.

Engine Deposit Reduction
Petroleum oils tend to leave sludge, varnish and deposits behind after thermal and oxidative break down. They're better than they used to be, but it still occurs.
Deposit build-up leads to a significant reduction in engine performance and engine life as well as increasing the chance of costly repairs.
Synthetic oils have far superior thermal and oxidative stability and they leave engines virtually varnish, deposit and sludge-free.

Better Cold Temperature Fluidity
Synthetic oils do not contain the paraffins or other waxes which dramatically thicken petroleum oils during cold weather. As a result, they tend to flow much better during cold temperature starts and begin lubricating an engine almost immediately. This leads to significant engine wear reduction, and, therefore, longer engine life.

Improved Fuel Economy
Because of their uniform molecular structure, synthetic oils are tremendous friction reducers. Less friction leads to increased fuel economy and improved engine performance.
This means that more energy released from the combustion process can be transferred directly to the wheels due to the lower friction. Acceleration is more responsive and more powerful, using less fuel in the process.

In a petroleum oil, lighter molecules tend to boil off easily, leaving behind much heavier molecules which are difficult to pump. The engine loses more energy pumping these heavy molecules than if it were pumping lighter ones.
Since synthetic oils have more uniform molecules, fewer of these molecules tend to boil off and when they do, the molecules which are left are of the same size and pumpability is not affected.

Synthetics are better and in many ways, they are basically better by design as they are created by chemists in laboratories for a specific purpose.

Cheers
Simon

[orangecurry]

good info - thanks

but why 5w-40 ? It doesn't get that cold in the UK; well not very often.
Why not 10 or even 15W40?

[oilman]

It flows better and therefore there is less wear than a 10w or 15w

Cheers
Simon

[orangecurry]

errr technically 'less wear' yes but only at low temperatures which we don't see in this country...
so why do the oil companys bother to produce 10W or 15W if a 5W can do the job as well?

sorry - don't understand

[oilman]

errr technically 'less wear' yes but only at low temperatures which we don't see in this country...
so why do the oil companys bother to produce 10W or 15W if a 5W can do the job as well?

sorry - don't understand

ok,

No we dont get extreme low temps where the oil is at risk of freezing, but the #w grade is given by measuring an oil at 40deg(cold crank viscosity). Based on its viscosity at 40deg its given an SAE rating of 0w 5w 15w 20w.

So, a 5w is more fluid at 40deg (cold crank viscosity) then a 15w thus it will flow quicker when you start your car, the quicker the oil flows, the quikcer it protects and at time when 90% of engine wear occurs.

Why do manufacturers make all these grades, well many reasons and its all to do with base stock.

Due to the unstability of mineral multigrade oils they cannot span a large viscosity gap, so a 15w-40 with a gap of 25 is its limit before it fall apart.

Semi syntehtic base stocks, or hydrocracked mineral oils are more stable, thus they can lower the cold crank viscosity but still have the same hot end protection of the 40 so they can cope with a 10w-40 and a gap of 30.

Then you get into the synthetic base stocks, where they can bridge even larger gaps to give the largest multigrade, such as a 0w-40 and a gap of 40, mineral oils just cant do this.

but there is a limit to how far you can go, 5w-50 is a bridge to far and can be inherently unstable and can drop out of grade.

Hope this explains a little.

Cheers.

[orangecurry]

good answer - thanks.

I can see what you mean now; so that TV advert for Oil with the bloke starting his car and the engine noise was replaced with a human voice shouting 'Ouch Ouch Ouch Ouch' is actually quite a good analogy.

Actually I use a fully synthetic fluid already - Comma Synergy 5W40 (as recommended/supplied by Motormec)

[JOSEMI]

Oilman:
Just wanted to say the last explanation was spot on and clears up many questions
cheers mate

[oilman]

DegC...............0...............10............40..............100

0W/20............329............181...........46...............9..
5W/40............811............421...........92..............14..
10W/50..........1039...........539..........117.............18..
15W/50..........1376...........675..........130.............18..
20W/50..........2305..........1015..........148.............18..

This shows why wear is more prevelent the higher the "w" number the numbers are expressed in cst.

Centistokes (cst) is the measure of a fluid's resistance to flow (viscosity). It is calculated in terms of the time required for a standard quantity of fluid at a certain temperature to flow through a standard orifice. The higher the value, the more viscous the fluid.

Cheers
Simon