Wiring on an M10, Plus engine running probs NOW WITH PICS

[Duke137]

1985 316 Auto, has the old style wiring I believe.

Has anyone got a link on how to convert this bad boy to the newer type, or Brianmooore, please advise.

I am thinking about putting M42 engine and running gear in, or getting this one running right (might be a waste of time though)

Thanks

EDIT: Pics scroll down

[daimlerman]

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... ic&t=83367

Above link from Engine Swaps gives general advice on where to check C101.

The rev counter is wired differently on the early cars,it was explained in great detail(which I now fail to remember)to Mike Jermyn in a tech help thread a few months back when he was finishing his install,so a suitable search will find it.

Sounds like a cunning plan that you have,BTW,the MoT man will be expecting to see a 4 pot engine....

[Duke137]

Cheers Malc, I'll have a search unless Mike Jermyn can help me.

[daimlerman]

With reference to the auto box inhibit gadget,trace the sub-loom back from the selector plug at the centre console to the glovebox area,two black wires should interupt the black/yellow starter signal wire,remove the sub harness entirely,asuming that you are fitting a manual 'box,of course!

[Duke137]

Ok cool thanks. One more complication you might be able to help with....

The car had a replacement engine and was sold to me as a spares or repair. The original Auto engine was destroyed (somehow, I don't know the full story). Anyway, a couple of Bosnian lads fitted a formerly Manual M10 to the Auto box and it apparently ran without much power etc.

So, I thought I'd have a go with it seeing as I bought it for no more than scrap money and see what I can do with it. Anyway, the engine bay is a right mess, brackets missing, wires and hoses hanging (connected up but hanging) etc etc (I'll post some photo's later on)

Anyway me and mate spent 3 hours scrathcing our heads, got a spark and no fuel sorted the fuel by "bypassing" a small regulator (as per my wanted ad) so fuel at least made it to the carb. Got it fired and running for all of about 10 seconds then it cut out due to no choke potentially or over fuelling as it was back firing and cicking flames out the top of the carb lol (due to bypassing the afore mentioned regulator no doubt)

Am in two minds whether to just rip it all out but it would be nice to get it running before I do. If I can get it right I just want to use it as a dailly while I M50 my facelift turd.

I don't really trust any thing to be tightened up properly and I would really want to replace the running gear, but the cost implication may be too much for me to afford at this stage. If I can get it running properly at least I can break the engine up as tested and working at a later date.

So, if it was a manual engine there shouldn't be an issue if the wiring used was original am I right? If not is there something I am missing?

I like challenges but this one is a reet fook up. Pictures to follow later tonight!

Any input appreciated

[daimlerman]

Anyway me and mate spent 3 hours scrathcing our heads, got a spark and no fuel sorted the fuel by "bypassing" a small regulator (as per my wanted ad) so fuel at least made it to the carb. Got it fired and running for all of about 10 seconds then it cut out due to no choke potentially or over fuelling as it was back firing and cicking flames out the top of the carb lol (due to bypassing the afore mentioned regulator no doubt)

This reads to me like an ignition timing fault....now I have never played with an M10,but the basics apply in the same way!You are looking for the points to open at around TDC,so set the engine with No1 at TDC with the rotor pointing at the correct H/T terminal you will not be too far out,then adjust from there as the engine warms up to get the best running that you can.

The Peirberg carb is a known weak point as it ages,so I would guess that to achieve more than 'look it runs' will be difficult without chucking loads of cash/time at it,but the ability to prove the rest of the running gear will help with any future conversion.

[Duke137]

Anyway me and mate spent 3 hours scrathcing our heads, got a spark and no fuel sorted the fuel by "bypassing" a small regulator (as per my wanted ad) so fuel at least made it to the carb. Got it fired and running for all of about 10 seconds then it cut out due to no choke potentially or over fuelling as it was back firing and cicking flames out the top of the carb lol (due to bypassing the afore mentioned regulator no doubt)

This reads to me like an ignition timing fault....now I have never played with an M10,but the basics apply in the same way!You are looking for the points to open at around TDC,so set the engine with No1 at TDC with the rotor pointing at the correct H/T terminal you will not be too far out,then adjust from there as the engine warms up to get the best running that you can.

The Peirberg carb is a known weak point as it ages,so I would guess that to achieve more than 'look it runs' will be difficult without chucking loads of cash/time at it,but the ability to prove the rest of the running gear will help with any future conversion.

Will have a go, my mate is pretty good but I fear it may be a waste of time like you say

Cheers

[30316]

As you say the replacement M10 did not have much power, was the kickdown cable fitted again and re-adjusted? I ask this as the replacement came from a manual version and may not have had any means of attaching the kickdown cable.

As for Pierburg 2BE carb if they go wrong they can be a right pig especially with an auto. I have found in the past this is due to wear on the air correction jet. If you look on the top of the carb it is the one which is spring loaded which looks like a plunger. The replacement used to be available from the dealers but you would need a press to pull it out as it is an interfierence fit and not screwed. If you look at this plunger with a new one you will see there is a gap on a worn one.

[Duke137]

As you say the replacement M10 did not have much power, was the kickdown cable fitted again and re-adjusted? I ask this as the replacement came from a manual version and may not have had any means of attaching the kickdown cable.

As for Pierburg 2BE carb if they go wrong they can be a right pig especially with an auto. I have found in the past this is due to wear on the air correction jet. If you look on the top of the carb it is the one which is spring loaded which looks like a plunger. The replacement used to be available from the dealers but you would need a press to pull it out as it is an interfierence fit and not screwed. If you look at this plunger with a new one you will see there is a gap on a worn one.

There is a cable loose within the engine bay and we thought it might be the "park" actually, but we did concentrate on getting fuel to the carb in the time we had (about 1.5 hours) didn't get too much done to be honest as it is a flippin mess!

Spoke to my mate today and he said I should just whip it all out, rewire C101 plug etc and put something else in. I'll go with whatever is easiest but sounds like the carb is going to be a royal pain in the arse so swapping the running gear might be the easiest?

Out of interest, where SHOULD the kick down cable connect to?

[30316]

Without the kickdown cable the performance would be awful. There would simply be no get up and go. Also to work properly it has to be adusted correctly.

Without haveing a look The cable is connected between autobox and the and close to the throttle cable at the carb end. Without this cable you might as well forget about overtaking as it will take for ever to accelerate.

[Duke137]

The Car some might remember it for sale? It's a little council But it's better in the flesh and pretty solid.
The next pic is how it looked when I got it..... Proper council bruv, check ma chrome wiper blade ya get me?


Below is the complete mess of an engine bay, it is actually tidier now than it was and I've temporarily put the filter back on the top of the carb (its raining now, am not messing about)




Nice eh?
Fusebox incase am missing something?

This is what I think might be the kick down cable?

Can't get a good pic of the gearbox bolts but that is laughable aswell as at least 2 are hanging out....

[Duke137]

Bump if any of you gurus are online now

[daimlerman]

Cannot see anything that looks like a C101 plug/socket!

It's the round one by the fusebox here;



Anyone know if these early turds have seperate engine loom?

[Duke137]

Sorry I thought that was a C206, but I am new to wiring in engines, I've avoided them so far... I know my car is an early loom which is why I asked about wiring in an M42 etc....

[johnl320]

Early models do not have one ( a c101 that is) They do have a seperate loom ,many moons ago I converted a 316 to 320 both early models but no real dramas on the wiring front. It is a bit more involved than the c101 plug and play.

[Duke137]

Early models do not have one

Can it be changed easily (in the grand scheme of things)

[daimlerman]

Cannot see anything that looks like a C101 plug/socket!

It's the round one by the fusebox here;



Anyone know if these early turds have seperate engine loom?

OK,that round socket is the diagnostic socket....C101 is under the cover along side....

Just had a quick look at beemerlad's thread and his chromie has a C101...

[johnl320]

Edited my last post, You can probably do away with the c101 plug on the engine side and splice individual wires into the old style loom, there isn't that many needed to make it run.

[Duke137]

So it is easyish but a bit fiddly? Anyone done this before or have a guide at all....

I think I need a mr moore input to clear it up, I've kind of decided I'm gonna whip the M10 out and frag it off in bits.... It all runs as have had it running but its so messy and badly set up I can't be bothered to work it out, I'd rather take it back to the bones and start again so back to the wiring question really lol

[johnl320]

Cannot see anything that looks like a C101 plug/socket!

It's the round one by the fusebox here;



Anyone know if these early turds have seperate engine loom?

OK,that round socket is the diagnostic socket....C101 is under the cover along side....

Just had a quick look at beemerlad's thread and his chromie has a C101...

Pre 86 m10 don't have the c101 and have the old style diagnostic socket at the front of the engine

[Duke137]

yep diagnostic at the front.

[johnl320]

Here is my M30 conversion c101 plug I think there is about 6 wires needed to get it to run.
If it was mine I would get rid of the c101 on the new engine loom and wire it up to the existing old loom. If you are doing an m42 conversion the wiring is relatively easy and to be honest one of the easiest parts of the conversion.

[Duke137]

Cool thanks mate, thats good advice, so I use the M42 loom, remove the C101 plug an wire it by what method, another connector (sorry for sounding dumb but when it comes to wring I am lol

[johnl320]

Remember this is what I would do, so if Mr moore comes on here and gives me a bollocking he may have a better solution.
I would remove the pins from the c101 on the m42 once I had identified which wires the old engine used.
For example the alternator wire which is normally blue and white could be followed on the old engine back from the alternator to wherever it plugs into, Label it up . Identify it on the new engine loom label it up and move ont to the next wire.

[Duke137]

Cool thanks John! How would you join them, another plug (if so which type) or twist them together and use insulating tape? (Only joking on the latter lol)

Thanks mate

[johnl320]

Depends on what plug is there, maybe use a short length of the old loom with the plugs on and solder and heat shrink on to the back of them, if you know what I mean.

[Duke137]

Yeah cool, I have an old E36 M50 loom available for sacrifice.

Top man, thank you very much mate

[johnl320]

Sorry you've lost me, what would you use the m50 loom for?

Butcher the m10 loom to use the old plugs on it , leave a short amount of wire on the back of those plugs and solder the new loom on to them. No extra loom required

[JJ26]

A soldering iron and some heat shrink would be your best friend here ;)

[johnl320]

Depends on what plug is there, maybe use a short length of the old loom with the plugs on and solder and heat shrink on to the back of them, if you know what I mean.

As previously discussed

[Duke137]

Thanks Will, I am undecided on what motor, I have a choice of 2. An M42, or an M50B20. The M42 being the cheaper option to use as I have to source a lot more bits to use the M50b20 (From an E34). Will probably use the M42 as I have the correct diff, prop shaft etc etc .

I know neither of these engines are the best but I just want a dailly hack out of it.

If you have diagrams for both that would help but you may not have one for the 2.0L I am guessing?

[Duke137]

In your pic, the engine->body loom plug is under the plastic cover on the rhs of the fuse box. Mating a later motor loom to it is simple. Get a spare body loom C101 plug, cut the retangular plug off the existing body loom plug and join the wires inside the fuse box.

I am at work so dont have my wiring diagram for the older 316 like your at hand but can post up the conversion later if you require it. Will need to know what motor you intend on putting in though.

When you say right hand side you mean right hand side of the pic or right hand side if you were sat in the car?

Excuse my stupid questions, I'm learning