Dead fuel pump?

[Ziggy]

On the way to work today, my car suddenly refused to accelerate - pushing the accelerator made it just die - but it idled ok... Anyway, it fixed itself as soon as I pulled over, so off I went again. Got most of the way home this afternoon & it did it again... This time it kept doing it though, clearing after a few seconds each time... I've just managed to limp home!

I'm thinking dead / rapidly dying fuel pump? Any more ideas, or thoughts on how I can check?? Need to sort this tomorrow or I won't make the meet on Sunday!

Cheers

[320Touring]

sounds like a fuels supply problem when under load

could be a clogged fuel filter? that may show up when "pressing on"

Is the pump squeeling or ticking?

What about a dodgy FPR?

these things are all fairly easy to check, and may be easier than hauling out the pump...

Basically sounds like the system is not keeping up 3bar pressure all the time, so more than likely the pump on the way out-but the other things are worth a coursory check

[Simon]

Fuel pump relay is also a common problem on these cars.

[Ziggy]

It doesn't seem to depend on how much stick I'm giving it, so a simple blocked fuel filter seems unlikely, as does the FPR... The way it's just "fixed" itself a few times suggests electrical gremlins! The pump's been a bit noisy now I think about it, but I guess the relay's worth checking before I shell out a fortune for a new one

How dya check the fuel pump relay then? Is it the same as any of the others?

Cheers guys

[Ziggy]

How many different types of fuel pump are there? Ie how lucky do I have to be if I try the scrappies tomorrow (assuming that's what it turns out to be)...
Are all E30s the same, or am I going to have to find an 87 325i? Or somewhere between the two...?

[smithy318i]

you have PM

[A1BMW325iSport]

doubt its the relay or filter most likely your pump is on its way out

[Brianmoooore]

87 325 will have the old two pump set up, won't it?
Sounds like the high pressure pump may be stalling, leaving the car running (just) on the transfer pump only.
Can be replaced by the later type of pump (88 on), if you remove both old pumps and the wiring to the pressure pump, bypass the pressure pump with a bit of high pressure hose, and fit the new pump in the tank.
Think the electrical connectors are the same, but not sure, so get your scrappy pump complete with a few inches of wire.
There are two versions of the later pump. One with a single pipe and one with twin pipes. The second pipe is the fuel return line from the fuel pressure regulator. On some cars this goes to a spigot on the side of the tank, and on others goes to the fuel pump.
A two pipe pump can be used in place of a single if the second pipe is blamnked off, but not the other way around.

[smithy318i]

Im not sure if you got my PM... So...

http://www.e30zone.co.uk/modules.php?na ... 755#202755

[Ziggy]

Brian, legend as usual...

It is indeed the 2 pump setup, & what you described seems pretty likely to me too. It only does it when I've been driving for a while - suggesting it's overheating? I couldn't get it to do anything wrong on the drive!

Blimmer86 (just up the road from me!) has offered me his later pump, but surely it'd be easier to just get another external one? Think I'll take a quick trip up to the scrappies & see if they've got one. There's a brand new one finishing on ebay this afternoon too, which would be nice... (if any of you bid on it I WILL kill you!)

Thanks to all who've offered em to me - I'll be in touch! Just really want to go to this meet tomorrow (& work on Monday lol) so I need to work out the best way forward...

Cheers

Jon

[A1BMW325iSport]

Jon, i have 86 325i, and i`m sure i have a pump in my box of bits left from my other 325i i scrapped, the pump worked fine and is in good condition, let me know if your interested and i`ll try and find it

[Ziggy]

Well I got one from a scrappy in the end (the really expensive one that I usually avoid at all costs!), & have a spare from Hoggy (cheers!) too...

I'm sure I felt it hesitate again today Maybe I imaginined it, maybe I didn't... Assuming the worst though, where's the relay & how can I check that?

At least I've got the spare now, & the little b*****d nuts won't have rusted up again yet if I have to change it again!



Oh, & one other thing - I kept my old FPR (the one next to the pump), as it's a 325i & the pump came from a 320i. I wasn't sure if they'd be the same; would they?

[320Touring]

iirc, all pumps are the same rate (ECP/GSF quote the same part numbers for 316-325i)

its the FPR that controls the fuel pressure.

glad you've got it sorted

[Ziggy]

iirc, all pumps are the same rate (ECP/GSF quote the same part numbers for 316-325i)

its the FPR that controls the fuel pressure.

glad you've got it sorted

Cheers Dya know if a 320i fpr is different to a 325i then? I guess it would be, but on the other hand all m20s could be the same for all I know...

& any ideas on testing (/finding!) the relay?

[TouringMatt]

Not trying to hijack, but my 89 Touring ( single or dual pumps?? ) has the same problem i think!

Left work tonight and had to visit the letting agents which is about 8 miles away, lots of stop/start but also a long blast up a steep 2mile D/C, not even an ickle misfire.
Then left and got stuck in traffic leading upto a roundabout for about 6-7mins, exited the roundabout, went to stick my toe down and the car hit 3k revs in 3rd and would not accelerate past this because of the misfire, it would hold revs but as soon as i opened the throttle the misfired badly
Wacked it into 5th and trundled along at lower revs for about 2 miles, then tried again and it rev'd cleanly without a hint of trouble

What could be causing that??

Matt

[Ziggy]

Sounds like just the same problem as mine was... You'll just have the one pump in the tank though, which sounds to me like it's on the way out.

Could be the FPR / relay though... & as it's only done it once, it could well be a blockage?

[TouringMatt]

Its not the first time, but this is the worst its been

I thought it was all sorted, did a 350mile round trip to Norfolk without a single problem then it started again, i've ran some redex through but that did owt

Took a look at the DME relay but looked ok, thought it could be a blocked filter but surely it would be more consistent than this, FP's a worry cos if that goes its gonna leave me stranded

FP Reg could be a possible, any way of testing or is it only by replacement?


Matt

[Andy335Touring]

You can test an FPR with a fuel pressure gauge i think ?

320 and 325 FPR's are differant going by what it says on the ETK, 320 is 2.5 bar and the 325 is 3 bar.

[320Touring]

You can test an FPR with a fuel pressure gauge i think ?

320 and 325 FPR's are differant going by what it says on the ETK, 320 is 2.5 bar and the 325 is 3 bar.

yup us 731 boys have a 2.5bar fpr.It'd be a cheaper and easier thing to check before pulling out fuel pumps

[TouringMatt]

Does anyone know how the internals work of the FPR's?
Could it somehow be sticking?

Driving to work this morning it was playing up again, but only at around 3300k revs, push past and the revs jerked up to 3600k as if something was freeing itself and all was sound again, coming home tonight not a hint of problems

Matt

[320Touring]

Does anyone know how the internals work of the FPR's?
Could it somehow be sticking?

Driving to work this morning it was playing up again, but only at around 3300k revs, push past and the revs jerked up to 3600k as if something was freeing itself and all was sound again, coming home tonight not a hint of problems

Matt

Hi matt-firstly, to answer your earlier question, since you have a touring, and tourings are facelift-you'll have a 1 pump system

Was the engine " stuttery" only when cold? did it feel sluggish at all?

Could also be a block in the fuel filter, just behind (ie towards the middle of the car) the right rear wheel. Check the area for any signs of leaks etc.

I'd either get an FPR off of a scrappy, or GSF do one for

325 B18310 FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR E30 325i 3 bar 38.50

320 B18300 FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR E30 320i / 323i M20 Eng. 2.5 bar 32.50[/b]

[TouringMatt]

Thanks for the reply mate

Was the engine " stuttery" only when cold? did it feel sluggish at all?

Thats the annoying part, its really random on when it happens, sometimes when its cold ( although i rarely take it above 2.5k until its warm ) but also when its been running for ages.
If it was not for the slight jolt i'd never really know there was a problem, engine performance seems hardly effected

I think i will try a new FPR first, easier to access than the filter, although i really should do that as a matter of service it guess , is the filter a hard job?

Matt

[Andy335Touring]

is the filter a hard job?

No, i've just done mine

[TouringMatt]

Coolio, FPR and filter ordered

Lets hope this sorts it!

Matt

[Andy335Touring]

Check the new FPR comes with a new O ring before you go to fit it. It is the same O ring that is fitted to the injectors on many BMW's of the era.




Just to warn you that the FPR is not really known for failing very often so it might not be the fault.

[TouringMatt]

Thanks for the tip Andy, if it dont get solved soon im chopping it in and getting something - bloody sick of chasing problems!!

Thanks for the help guys

Matt

[TouringMatt]

Update!

Changed the filter ( you were right Andy, twas an easy job ) what i didn't spill i drained out into a cup ( about 1/2 a cup ) , there was enough sediment to cover the bottom but more worrying was the metallic particles floating around, is that bad

Did the FPR too - GSF do supply the part with the 'O' ring for future ref - tested the car, early days but it seems better, had no stuttering but then again i've had it be fine for days then start playing up. What i did notice was it pulling better at low ( sub 4k ) revs, placebo effect maybe?

Fingers crossed

Matt

[TouringMatt]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAArse, still does it


Gonna test/fix my spare AFM and try that

Fuggin car

Matt

[Brianmoooore]

Get totaly lost when someonre hijacks a thread for a car with a similar syptoms, but not necessarily remotely the same problem.
TouringMatt - What makes you think this is a fuel problem?
First thing I would change is the distributor cap and rotor.

[Andy335Touring]

Gonna test/fix my spare AFM and try that

Fuggin car

Matt

They are sent to test us mate

Talking of AFMs have you seen this web page ?

http://frwilk.com/944dme/afm.htm

[Ziggy]

Mine still ain't fixed either

Keeps doing the same as it was before; it'll idle ok but not rev. Then it clears & off we go... Only thing is, I managed to stop while it was messed up & check the fuel pump; it was still running.

I've just done the fuel filter (was gonna do it anyway!) & the old one had a fair bit of resistance when trying to blow through it; is this normal?

Getting a breaker tomorrow, so I'll get everything fuel related, & probably swap to the later pump type...
Are injectors difficult to get out?!

[TouringMatt]

Yeah i've been using that 944 guide, good init

Tested my original AFM ( this is part of the problem, i have changed so many parts chasing problems i cant remember whats happened when i have changed what..... if you catch my drift the original problem was an idle one!! ) the two black wear lines were present and being a late 80's model, does have the extra wire already there. Voltage test was all good but i moved the arm North, re-sealed the unit and are going to swap it later, then strip and test my current, on-car AFM

I've just done the fuel filter (was gonna do it anyway!) & the old one had a fair bit of resistance when trying to blow through it; is this normal?

Never tried this with mine, was tempted to cut it open to have a look but could not be arsed!

Matt

[TouringMatt]

*sigh* still fuct