M20 cylinder head swap - HELP!

Post Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:46 pm

Guys, yet again I'm in trouble.......
After 8 hours, I finally got the 'head off. I can't get the inlet manifold off because there's a plug on the bracket that holds the heater hoses and I can't seperate it from the bracket. How is it done please???
Also, I can't get the fan off. I'm assuming that it's left-hand thread, but it won't budge either way.

TIA
Stuart

P.S On the plus side, I've opened out the new manifold for the 325i throttle body. That went pretty well - half an hour with a rat-tail file.

I've got the rocker shafts and cam out and ready to go in the new head.

Post Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:50 pm

Is the plug you mention just in front of the starter motor at about the same height as the starter.

If so the plug undoes from the bottom.

HTH

Post Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:53 pm

Andy_magic wrote:Is the plug you mention just in front of the starter motor at about the same height as the starter.

If so the plug undoes from the bottom.

HTH

That's the one, and I've undone it, but I need it out of the metal support rail too. Sorry, didn't explain myself very well there!

Post Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:02 pm

Ive not got any tips mate, all the ones Ive done just seem to come out of the bracket with a bit of a twist.

Post Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:07 pm

Andy_magic wrote:Ive not got any tips mate, all the ones Ive done just seem to come out of the bracket with a bit of a twist.

Thanks Andy, I'll give that a try in the morning.

Anyone got any advice on the fan?? I need the pulley off so that I can do the cambelt.
BTW - I know that I'm not the worlds fastest mechanic, but how the hell do you do the cambelt in four hours?????

Post Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:21 pm

Do you mean the round plug/socket that runs to the injector rail ?. If so there is a locknut underneath the bracket holding the plug in, it's a quarter turn affair but you might need a set of pliers from the boot tool kit to persuade it to move

Cheers,

Iain T

Post Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:33 pm

for getting the viscous fan off I get a substantial screwdriver and lock the fan with it then undo the nut (Left handed thread) with a pair of water pump pliers. Maybe I have been lucky with them.

As for getting the crank pulley off I have a method, it's not pretty though:

Get a breaker bar and suitable socket to fit the bolt, put the B/bar on the crankshaft nut with the B/bar facing the floor on the right hand side of the engine (looking from the front, same side as the inlet manifold) making sure the B/bar is touching the floor so it can't move, flick the key so the starter turns, this will undo the bolt. Then remove the 6 bolts holding the pulley to the crankshaft drive sprocket for the belt.

This method is no good if you have removed the belt as valves will hit the pistons as the engine turns. If the head is off it will be fine, although you might get some oil pumped out of the galleries in the block.

As for cambelt changes in 4 hours...

When I did my 2.7 transplant, I fitted the 2.7 motor in the empty engine bay then changed the head over, water pump refitted everything else and got it finished in 5 1/2 hours.

Post Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:28 am

As per usual, I'm in real trouble now!
I can't get the fan off, it just won't budge. Therefore, I can't get the bottom pulley off to change the cambelt, because it's fouling on the water pump pulley.
Bright ideas ASAP please. I'm panicing now. Like I said before, I know I'm not the fastest mechanic in the world (that's why I didn't finish my apprenticeship!) but 2 days and not even half done - FFS!
BTW, when I eventually get the new belt on, which way do the timing marks line up??

....... And before any bright spark says "If you can't do it, you shouldn't have started!", if I could have got a garage interested in doing the job, I wouldn't be doing it myself. General concensus is "15 year old car - why bother!".

TIA
Stuart.

Post Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:04 pm

Hello banny lad. When I replced the water pump on my e36, I removed the rad, undid all the small bolts holding the water pump in (with an allen key) and pulled out the pump with the fan still fixed on. I then cracked off the viscous fan witht he pump in a vice.

I know it seems more work, but at least you can get at the bottom end this way.
If you get really stuck, gimme a shout, see if I can help.
Johnna.

Post Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:30 pm

johnna wrote:Hello banny lad. When I replced the water pump on my e36, I removed the rad, undid all the small bolts holding the water pump in (with an allen key) and pulled out the pump with the fan still fixed on. I then cracked off the viscous fan witht he pump in a vice.

I know it seems more work, but at least you can get at the bottom end this way.
If you get really stuck, gimme a shout, see if I can help.
Johnna.

Thanks John, but in this case the pulley has to come off the pump to get access to the pump/engine bolts

Any way, I've got mega problems now. The 'head I bought off eBay is cracked. I've had to take the original 'head to Engine Services for them to attempt to get the broken studs out.
Car's gonna be off the road for another week now!

Post Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:38 pm

Crap luck mate.

Gimme a shout if you are stuck in the future.

Post Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:42 pm

essbee wrote: Thanks John, but in this case the pulley has to come off the pump to get access to the pump/engine bolts
Any way, I've got mega problems now. The 'head I bought off eBay is cracked. I've had to take the original 'head to Engine Services for them to attempt to get the broken studs out.
Car's gonna be off the road for another week now!

damn it mate

you were so looking forward to that 323 head idea

Have you not got a set of "plumbing spanners " you could use to basically lock the Fan in place? another option would be to use a belt and clamp to secure it to a pully?

Post Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:54 pm

johnna wrote:Crap luck mate.

Gimme a shout if you are stuck in the future.

Cheers John, it may come to that yet - I'll bear you in mind as you're only just down the road (our shop's in CLS!).

320Touring wrote:you were so looking forward to that 323 head idea

My 323i (A.K.A "long-stroke 320i") dream is going to stay a dream. I don't trust my luck!! I'm having enough trouble curing a broken manifold stud problem!

.........But maybe if I've still got the Touring when I retire and I need something to keep me occupied..........

320Touring wrote:Have you not got a set of "plumbing spanners " you could use to basically lock the Fan in place? another option would be to use a belt and clamp to secure it to a pully?

I'll have another go at getting the pulleys off over the weekend. I've got time on my hands now.

Post Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:24 pm

Sorry to hear you're having trouble mate, I had exactly the same http://www.e30zone.co.uk/modules.php?na ... viscus+fan might be of some help

Post Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:35 pm

Sure fire way of getting the fan off, go to your local motor accessories or spares store and get a viscous fan spanner. Halfrauds do them as a last resort.

It's best to get a spanner without the plastic on the handle as this absorbs the shock when smacking it with a hammer, if not cut the plastic off.

Wedge a screwdriver between the belt and pulley, fit the spanner to the fan nut. Now get your biggest hammer (a mallet won't do as you need to 'shock' it) brace yourself and hit the spanner in the clockwise direction, really TWAT IT as hard as you can taking care not to hit the rad or top hose.

It may take a few goes, I've used this method on over a dozen e30's and it's never failed yet.

Good luck,

Iain T

Post Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:45 pm

Templ8e30 wrote:Sure fire way of getting the fan off, go to your local motor accessories or spares store and get a 32mm viscous fan spanner. TWAT IT as hard as you can taking care not to hit the rad or top hose.

Cheers Iain (again!) I think this has got to be the way to go as I've nothing left to loose now.
No danger of hitting the rad or hose as neither are there!!
Next move is tidy my mess in the garage and get as much as I can done so that when I get a 'head sorted I can just put it straight on and finish the job once and for all. I may as well carry on and do the cambelt while I've got the time, even though it was only done last year.
Anyone tell me which way the timing marks line-up when I do the belt, please??
Stuart.

Post Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:59 pm

borrow my 32mm spanner mate if you don't already have one.

Post Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:11 pm

johnna wrote:borrow my 32mm spanner mate if you don't already have one.

John, that would be mint! Cheers

I've replied to your PM.
Are you in tomorrow morning?
Cheers
Stuart.

Post Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:37 pm

johnna wrote:borrow my 32mm spanner mate if you don't already have one.

D'OH! I just deleted the PM with your 'phone number John. Could you send it again please?
Ta.
Stuart.

Post Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:24 pm

Right! I've just bust 3 spanners (don't worry John, not yours!) trying to get the fan off.
I'm getting really sick of the pile of poo now. There's a Dude along the road from me who has a scrapyard and a trailer.

Guess what my next move is gonna be?????

Post Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:06 pm

E30 fans usually shock off fairly easily, but occasionaly you find one that has rusted or some muppet has loctited on.
If you follow CharlE30's link above, you'll see my description of how to do it with a piece of flat bar and a bolt + 32mm spanner.

Post Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:10 pm

Brianmoooore wrote:E30 fans usually shock off fairly easily, but occasionaly you find one that has rusted or some muppet has loctited on.
If you follow CharlE30's link above, you'll see my description of how to do it with a piece of flat bar and a bolt + 32mm spanner.

Thanks Brian. I've checked Charl's link and followed the instructions.
I'm thinking that maybe it has been Loctited. It was supposed to have been off a year ago when the cambelt was (alledgedly) changed, so it's not as if it's been on there forever!

Post Sun Oct 16, 2005 4:04 pm

Yip! Was Loctite - loads of it!!

Now I'm calming down a bit (again), I'm thinking that if I keep the car much longer, I'm gonna fit an electric fan - then cambelt changes will be the doddle they ought to be.

Post Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:38 pm

When you put the fan back on don't tighten it, just spin it until the nut is all the way home (after giving it a good clean and oil).

I've never had one come off on it's own, but then the luck you have

Post Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:41 pm

Bit rough this one

But it is now the only method i use for removing viscous fans due to the amount of damaged spanners and broken fans, not to mention the waste of perfectly good time.
Get a nice sharp long chisel

With the belt on hammer the nut in a clockwise motion once nice and sharply.
you should now be able to spin the fan off

Unless you didnt hit it hard enough

Post Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:36 pm

Glad you got it off mate.

What are your lottery numbers? Just so I don't put them on, with your luck they won't come up.....

Post Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:45 pm

DanThe wrote:Bit rough this one
But it is now the only method i use for removing viscous fans due to the amount of damaged spanners and broken fans, not to mention the waste of perfectly good time.
Get a nice sharp long chisel
With the belt on hammer the nut in a clockwise motion once nice and sharply.
you should now be able to spin the fan off
Unless you didnt hit it hard enough

So it's you who mucks up the nuts so that my 32mm spanner won't go on before I manage to file down the ridges!

Post Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:42 pm

johnna wrote:What are your lottery numbers? Just so I don't put them on, with your luck they won't come up.....

I gave-up on the lottery - was chucking far too much dosh at it and getting nowt back......!!
John, I'm working nights this week, can I drop your spanner back at the weekend please?

Post Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:21 pm

Course you can mate- I'f I'm out stick it through the letterbox.
Cheers!

Post Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:09 pm

Brianmoooore wrote: So it's you

Its me

Post Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:47 pm

So Dan how are the bearings on your waterpump ?

Post Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:55 pm

Perfect working order thanks mate

Well, they havnt fell out yet anyway

Post Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:04 pm

Back OT......... :lol:

Engine Services 'phoned late today to say the 'head's ready.
Fingers crossed then!
(Hopefully) Have the car back on the road by Sunday.

Post Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:17 pm

Good luck with the rebuild mate.

Don't FFS sell it now you've sorted it!

Post Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:47 pm

Andy_magic wrote:Good luck with the rebuild mate.

Cheers Andy

Andy_magic wrote:Don't FFS sell it now you've sorted it!

Had various discussions with Wor Lass, including getting it towed away as it is (that was Friday afternoon!), and the concensus is that we keep it and run it into the ground........
What WL doesn't know is that that will take more years than she's anticipating!
I'm cautiously optomistic about the rest of the job, I've just got to remember where everything goes.
I'm going to pass the increased performance due to the 325i TB I'm fitting as "Well Dear, it just shows how bad it was before I took the 'head off! You see....... I told you it had to be done!"