My take on the last couple of days

[320Touring]

I've been away for the last day and a half, and it would appear that all hell has broken loose.

Adam, whilst I appreciate that you are the registered owner of the e30zone.co.uk, and as such "owner of the zone" I find your attitude towards subscribers somewhat shocking.

In my opinion, you state the e30 zone is the "UKs Largest E30 Community", yet you appear to treat the members like lower class citizens.

When you initially took over the zone, you'll recall that many members were quick to post up congratulations and messages of support and wellwishing. It is those members that you are currently ignoring.

I understand that having a wholly democratic system on the zone is impractical, however I'm sure that users would consider it only polite to consult them on largescale changes, that affect everyone.

You must remember that by blocking people with under 100 posts from viewing the classifieds, you are effectively removing a large portion of the potential buyers. Ergo,even longtime trusted users may experience difficulties selling parts or cars.

The classifieds also perform a secondary function as a "price guide" for people looking at buying e30's in the future. It allows them to see the condition of cars offered at differing levels of price, and to make informed decisions as to the worth of potential purchases.

I understand that there are small things that could be improved upon the zone, but I feel that changes should be implimented gradually and in a sympathetic manner.

With regards to "off topic" posting, I know for certain that I attempt to refrain from it wherever possible, and put any non subject related posts into the "squatter alert" thread.

However, I have also seen a fair share of "off topic" posts that have produced copious volumes of useful and informative discussion. The majority of subscribers have several areas of expertise within life, and I feel that restricting discussion purely to matters pertaining to e30's is narrowminded.

For example Beemerlad has provided several members with pertinant advice pertaining to matters of insurance.This is not e30 specific, however it is useful to all members. Similarly BrianMooooore has more knowledge on car wiring and LPG servicing/fitting than anyone else I can think of.

In my opinion, you should be encouraging diversity of opinions and knowledge on the zone in an attempt to maintain and increase the membership experience and to maintain momentum instead of allowing the zone to become stale.

People have a lot to offer-and I for one would like to make use of their knowledge.

I would also like to ask what Jimbob, Brianmooore and Demalot (sp?) think of your proposed changes? They have been notable due to their absence so far....

Thank you

Neil P (320Touring)

Comments/PM's Discussion on above more than welcome

[coldo]

Handbags at five paces

Edit; (to avoid being shot down for "spamming")

In fairness i do agree with the points made above,and agree someone had to make them, but, as with alot of internet forums, people take it all waaay to seriously in my opinion.

[320Touring]

Handbags at five paces

more of a sporran man myself

but lets keep on topic please!

[dazleeds]

couldnt agree more mate

this does seem like a oneman show

theres been no sign of the other mods makong changes or flexing there muscles at comments they may disagree with

change can be good
no doubt or argument there
but its the way you go about things thats important

let me guess

[Danstable]

Here here Neil.

A very reasoned and eloquent post. Let's hope this post doesn't go the same way as all the others that have questioned the decisions that have been made recently.

Dan

[320Touring]

Thanks for that Daz-glad its not just Me that has seen the apparent lack of accross the board support from the mods...

[Mike318i]

I suppose Adam will lock this because he wont like what said, he usually locks most other posts

[dazleeds]

no prob mate theres no doubt in my mind thats how things are

started from day 1 imo

[Ant]

Someone call ?

OK, the classifieds were a major issue for the mods for a long time, a lot of arguements flew up relating to threads in that section, warnings were issued with regard to those on many occasions, no one seemed to take heed of what was said and the flaming threads continued.

A decision was made that would upset a few regulars true, and all new classifieds postings are now locked to prevent further "issues"

We all I appreciate that no-one likes change, but everyone would agree something had to be done right ?

With regard to the 100 post thing, hmmm I'm on the fence on that one, sure cuts down on those that join to sell and never return, something everyone passed commment( negative) in the past, so a major change was implemented.

I must say the tone of the forum has taken a dive due to comments made by Admin, please remember guys the forum you see is just the tip of the iceburg, a lot of nasty PMs are flying about which are less than constructive to say the least.

Can we all agree to suck it and see for a few weeks, perhaps after we've alll cooled off a tad, and the knee jerk reactions have passed we can sit back and re-evalute the situation.

comments welcome but please lets keep them constructive or the locks coming out

[320Touring]

Thanks for your post ant-nice to see a zone mod taking a "considered" opinion and viewpoint.

You're comments about the classified sections are true, however i think most users would agree its not the fact that changes have been made, more the manner that they were made in that has caused disruption.

I for one wish this discussion to remain civil and restrained, and also completely public. If you have to say it in a PM, it probably shouldnt be said.


Once again, thanks

Neil p

[d6dph]

must admit, i intially signed up because i was looking to buy my 325 and wanted to see what price they are going for. now im hooked.

even in the short time i have been on the site, i have noticed the change in tension between the mods and the rest. it seems a shame that we cant all just agree to disagree but i supose thats life.

The increase threat of someone getting funny over posts has caused me to not post my thoughts on many occasions, not the way it should be.
most of the people i have encountered on the site have been very helpfull and polite. its just the occasional one that ruins it (and they are the ones we remember!).

All in all this is a very good site, lets not let that slip form our minds.

[Stoney_god]

Having read a previous locked thread re the same subject I was a little shocked to read the following :


"Just put up with the changes and if you don't like them it's tough, just accept it and put it down to personal opinions differing. At the end of the day, someone around here has to stop pussyfootting around and make some firm decisions and that person is me"


Nice attitude to have towards the people who support the Zone...

some people can be fookers but 90% are sound as a pound..

I have a suggestion, lets model the zone around the fookers and ignore the good guys.. Ooops sorry that suggestion appears to already be in place.

Sorry about the rant but this is how is see it..

Sorry guys......

[hamski]

Being a 'below-100' poster, I may have no right to query anything here, but why not impose the 100+ restriction only if you want to sell. That allows the real supporters to reach their target audience and allows relative newcomers to get a decent E30, rather than some of the crap on the trader and fleabay.

[bootyman]

Ant you say that the decision was taking knowing it will upset a few people, but reading the other thread, it's not just a few people that are upset, it's the majority of the Zone and that's the worrying thing. I've been on the Zone for well over 2 years now and i dont even know who the mods are (But that's another subject).

I think most peoples gripe is that they feel like they are being treated like school children and that's not right. When things were introduced before, a frindly discussion took place and then the majority view was taken, like the modding section which i was the mod for. We all talked about it and as usual some thought it wasn't needed, but the majority thought it was a coll idea and it was implemented. Sadly it wasn't used enough so it was closed, but that's the kind of democratic forum most of us want and not "We've decided to do this so like it or lump it" That kind of attitude will make most people want to lump it and it will be a sad day for the Zone when that starts to happen. Newbies are a very important part of any forum and to stop them from seeing certain parts of the forum is unfair. Especially when they are not the cause of the problem.

I dont think things are as bad as being made out either to be honest. Yes there are a few openionated folks here and yes a few threads have got a bit out of hand, but all in all i dont think that's a good enough reason to start punishing us all for. I could go on forever, but I'll refrain from saying anymore as i think you guys are starting to get the general mood around here. We all think the Mods do a fantastic job, but I'd hate for this place to become a Us against Them (Zoners against Mods) kind of place. Besides all the other forums i visit manage quiet nicely without having to impose such drastic measures, so why cant we?

Please dont send the Zone hit squad round either for at least another year. I have 6 s#ags left in me and i'd like to use them up before you take care of me.

[Jimbob]

Yes the changes are being made rather forcefully I must admit.

Bootyman, you're spot on with the point I'm making, it's NOT the majority of the Zone that it's upset, but only the minority - Zone regulars. Why do I believe this? Well, as someone has already mentioned they keep their posts to a minimum incase they get flamed for what they say, so the people voicing their opinions are the regulars who are happy to do so (and I am in no way complaining as who knows the Zone better than these guys).

It's like taking a survey in the high street or something, only a minority will really put themselves out to take the survey. Bad example but hopefully someone can see my point.

Please take a look at the number of posts of the people who have posted in this thread, and have possibly had their topics locked, there aren't many under 150 posts. Fair play to Hamski for voicing his opinion on the 100 post count for the Classifieds, I agree there should be a minimum post count to stop people coming on here just to sell stuff, if they cared about their E30 like we do then they would already be a member rather than to just make a quick buck. However my opinion of this number has been shared with the mods that this number should be lowered.

Adam has put many hours into the zone (and had a huge part in the transformation to the new layout) for what he feels is everyone giving him stick and he posted with his feelings getting the better of him. Fair enough people don't like the manner of which some changes have been made, but for god's sake instead of 'having a go' then politely share your thoughts.

I too keep my posts down as a mod. Why? Well, no one really does ever seem to show appreciation to the mods for the job we do, except jump on the bandwagon when all we really need is your time and patience. And of course, constructive criticism which so far only a few people are able to do in a proper manner.

[d6dph]

I would love to get more involved with the zone, posting more etc. i feel that sometimes my posts get over looked as im new. Granted i havent been on here long but i have been in the motor trade for 7 years and my knowladge of aftermarket parts is quite good.

As a new person, i would ask some of the long term regualers to be a little bit more forth coming with new people, which will help the zone back to its former friendly self.

The work that the mods/admin do is excelent, you cant please all the people all the time. and i'm very gratefull that the zone is here to guide me thru my e30 ownership.

[320Touring]

Thanks for your reply Jimbob, you have been both courteous and understanding.

I understand that there is a "Vocal Minority" that are voicing concerns over the way that the zone is run.

However-it often takes a small group to raise concerns shared by many.Please do not underestimate how many people have concerns about the changes implimented.

As for Adam-I'm glad he has a passion both for the zone and for e30's!! as you say though, posting once his feelings got the better of him is probably not the best idea.

Fair enough people don't like the manner of which some changes have been made, but for god's sake instead of 'having a go' then politely share your thoughts.

This is precicely what I aimed to achieve with my original post. I appreciate both your and Ant's input on the topic to hand and would also like to all the other contributors.

Neil P

[Danstable]

If open discussion of new ideas was encouraged, you may find that Zoners come forward with their skills and demonstrate a way of doing something that is currently thought to be impossible. I refer here to the issue of blocking newbies from posting in the classifieds but still allowing them to view.

Like someone else has said before me, us zoners have a lot of non E30 related skills between us, it might just be the case that we can lessen the IT burden for some of the mods, and actually implement changes that the majority agree to.

I think it is fair to say that the mods don't get enough recognition for what they do, it is unfortunate that they only get 'attention' when things aren't right.

On that note I'd like to express my thanks to all mods.....but please remember that the Zone is nothing without the Zoners AND the Mods.

[bootyman]

I read something the otherday that in Human communication only about 20% of the cotent of what you say is taken in. The other 80% is the manner in which you say it, and that's why i said folks are not happy about being spoken to like kids. I defended Adam when all that ho, ha went on with Liz and said with hindsight i'm sure he'd have rephrased some of the things he said differently, so please dont think i'm having a go at him personally. Like i said, i've been involved in setting up a couple of sites with friends and i do know the amount of hard work and dedication that goes into it and we're all very, ver greateful for you guys, but at the end of the day, the Zone was created for the people and by in large it should be run by peoples openion, which it seems hasn't been done on the last few issue. I love this place. Gosh i must log on 100 times a day. When i 1st got here (Italy) i couldn't log on and i was besides myself frantically trying to get my restictions lifted so i could log on and thats what the Zone does to people. I'd hate for it to lose that magic cause people feel they no longer have any contribution into it and find something else to do with their time and that's what worries me the most.

[Andy_magic]

I think most of the unrest has come from the way in which the changes have been implemented, not what has actually happened, although one look at the for sale/wanted section does say alot about the feelings there from both old and new members.

I also get the feeling alot of members are holding back with there postings for fear of getting banned on this subject.

Most members on here will tread very carefully when buying stuff from newbies, likewise with selling to them. Alot of it is common sense after all.

I think the current for sale/wanted area is pretty much dead, escpecially with email notifications not working, by removing the option to reply to a post the only option is to PM people, PM's are limited to 30 (I think) and you don't get notified of them.

I've seen lots of posts about email notifications, for sale/wanted threads being locked and why was xxxx post locked. There have been only a few 'official' replies, I have yet to see a reply to the email notifications related numerous threads.

So we either get no answer or a "my way or the highway" answer.

Not good!

[E30BeemerLad]

In the cold light of day, I have had time to reflect on matters and feel that there has been a lack of give and take all round. Putting myself in Adam's shoes, well the guy has a difficult task to keep everybody happy and I do not envy his situation at all.

Yes I feel that something had to be done in the classified sections as it was turning into a mess with people posting stuff up for sale and countless pointless remarks being made or totally unconnected posts taking the original thread way off line. If it was to be left to the mods to play policeman here with a bit of a zero tolerance policy, then in my opinion it would only have led to anarchy or some sort up uprising moaning about the mods being too heavy handed.

OK so it is a disadvantage to the newbies not being able to view the classifieds but let's give it a go and see how things work. If there is a technical problem that cannot allow people with less than 100 posts to view items but not post then so be it. If a solution exists, then perhaps that needs to be explored.

I think we are just going around in circles now. Arguing about arguing. We are all "members" of this forum and in my opinion that does not automatically give us a right to plan the running of it. yes we can have our say when the actions of someone else affect our enjoyment of the forum but I think when the red mist clears, there will be no real harm done here and we will all get back to talking about what bought us all together on this forum to start with, E30s!

Sorry to sound painfully liberal here but I think when you take a step back from it all, it's all a bit pathetic really. Adam lost his blob after coming under pressure from all and sundry, all and sundry, myself included, were a bit peeved at the methods of enforcement and the way this has been communicated.

What's done is done, let's get on with it and if it don't work then it can be fixed right?

[dazleeds]

imo theres 1 word thats being forgotten at the moment
whats that word you say

(community)
anyone care to post the dictionary meaning??

if this is to be a community then the decisions cannot be made by 1 man

adam im not having a go by saying that i understand its not easy but it is however a fact for this forum to work we all have to work together

at the moment it just seems like as said before its like it or lump it

just my thorts

[bootyman]

I think we should all eat Salami and Pasta nad get a big belly like mine And with that i'm off home to Sunny San Donato

[Ziggy]

(community)
anyone care to post the dictionary meaning??

if this is to be a community then the decisions cannot be made by 1 man

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=community

Do it yourself! Note the distinct lack of reference to leadership / decision making... ;)

Re the whole situation; can't everyone just calm down a bit?! Someone *has* got to make decisions, & everyone wants the zone to work as well as it can - we're all on the same side here! Anyone reckon Adam's regretting taking all this work on? I certainly don't envy him at the moment...

[Moofles]

so this is what all that classified stuff was all about, i never looked - pardon my ignorance, but what's wrong with signing up just to sell a car? as long as it's an e30 (i see no problem with that rule).

if you don't like the fact that there's a member who never logs on again, can't you change the classifieds to allow anonymous postings (i know it can be done already so moot point )?

[Hyperion]

wow, didnt even notice the classified issue. seems like this ticked off a couple of the higher ranked zoners (which i would like to become one day), but i suppose to each there own, didnt really bother me. ... hm gonna go lok at the e30's in the photo section...u guys are not gonna block that right?!?

[Conan]

Ive only got 65 posts, yet ive been reading for a year and taking active part in threads for about 6months. it takes a surprising amount of time to rack up posts unless you know the answer to everyones questions or post alot of crap. i really dont want to have to start posting rubbish just to reach 100 so i can buy stuff for my car

Im on here every day as its my homepage and i usally end up posting some stuff but again it takes a while to rack up posts which means in 6 months time ill still be considerd a newbie! even thouh ill have gone to meets (by then) and posted for a year (at current rate)

its just i already feel like a regular

[oneblueleg]

Ive only got 65 posts, yet ive been reading for a year and taking active part in threads for about 6months. it takes a surprising amount of time to rack up posts unless you know the answer to everyones questions or post alot of crap. i really dont want to have to start posting rubbish just to reach 100 so i can buy stuff for my car

Im on here every day as its my homepage and i usally end up posting some stuff but again it takes a while to rack up posts which means in 6 months time ill still be considerd a newbie! even thouh ill have gone to meets (by then) and posted for a year (at current rate)

its just i already feel like a regular

That's about as compelling as it gets.... this is the bloke's homepage for christ's sake...

btw... I keep wanting to say this, ... I hadn't noticed any problem... and I view the for sale forum every day... I don't consider the odd spat worthy of note

[Andy335Touring]

A lot of fuss over nothing

....things will return to normal soon

[Simon13]

Adam put loads of effort into the new forum because he had too, as he would not let other mods help out is why

Reading all this is just winding me up!
I can't believe it's taken a loud mouth helmet like me to swear abit about the changes and then the floodgates opened. That thread was open for 2 days before i made a comment.

i'd love just to stop coming on here and sell it all up (not on our new classified, about 5 people have looked in there since the changes), but i love it too much the cars, and all the people i know too plus the shows

why are we having digs guys? Think about it because we are right p!ssed off Adam/Jimbob i like both u guys, i know i have met u both once, but how the fook is jim a legend?!?! can i be a hero please?!?! Jim without trying to be a cock what are u bringing the mod/admin team?

Can the mods post their thoughts on here before it is locked?!

I know what i'm saying is a but harsh but i have spoken to alot of members on here at recent meets and i know they are thinking the same things as me. So if i think it needs to be said, i will.

Why has this thread not be locked?! because it's the third one?

Why not bring back the old system and MODERATE it more strictly? thats all it needed.

Beemerlad how is this all pathetic? obviously some care more than others it would seem?

I don't like the whole way this has all started, the zone given to Adam, not split ownership?! lizzie and M3gtr f**ked off, jimbob "legend" appeared, threads getting locked up have rocketed, now the classifed changes whats next? I think a big issue is alot of mods are fed up with doing all this and this place went a bit unmoderated for a while.

If i'm going to get banned i might as well say what i'm really thinking

[Jimbob]

It's just a bit of text under my name, I didn't even request it..
I'm here to moderate, obviously doing a bad job and have wasted many hours of even bothering visiting the zone, lets face it - I don't buy anything on here as there isn't anything I desire for my car anymore, I don't have anything to sell as I don't break e30's and don't buy new stuff to replace. My technical knowledge is limited and everyone seems to dislike anything I say, I'll get me coat..

[320Touring]

It's just a bit of text under my name, I didn't even request it..
I'm here to moderate, obviously doing a bad job and have wasted many hours of even bothering visiting the zone, lets face it - I don't buy anything on here as there isn't anything I desire for my car anymore, I don't have anything to sell as I don't break e30's and don't buy new stuff to replace. My technical knowledge is limited and everyone seems to dislike anything I say, I'll get me coat..

easy! jimbob!Simon was a bit harsh with the "legend" comment=no need to get upset.

Yes you may not have "Expert Knowledge" of one particular area, but you have done some difficult tasks (turning your car into a 2.7), therefore

It takes all sorts to make up a community, and your view is as valid as mine.

Simon13 has brought up some valid points though, mainly pertaining to Moderation styles and treatment of former moderators.

These points could do with being considered and some explanation offered-if VALID reasons could be offered, then that'd solve a fair few "issues" on here.

E30beemerlad-Yes in the grand scheme of things, these issues are not lifechanging or even very influential outwith the zone, however-previous "get on with it " approaches have not worked, and I think that sometimes things need to be "thrashed out" (politely)

I appreciate that this thread has been left unlocked and both mods and members alike have posted responsibly.

Neil P

[BrAdZ]

Well i think its gone downhill since adam took charge, too many changes, treating us all like kids, and he now thinks hes god, and can tell us all what to do!

I know im a newbie-ish i think he had no reason to take liz off being a moderator, Why?? I know she cant post much due to her situation, but no reason to take away her moderation status, Thats just a plain lack of respect considering how she helped starting the zone.

Really pisses me off, Im a member of many many forums but have never experianced this much dictation on a Public forum, it sucks

As for the for sale section....... Just because someone doesnt spend a lot of time on here, your not going to let them read/post/sell/buy

That was the main reason i came on this site, to see what e30 bargains are too be had, i first came on here to buy a e30!..... But no your not letting people do that.

How about asking the members with a poll? or do you just sit behind your computer and think Fuck'em its my zone now ill do what i want

Arrrrhhhhhhhhhhh

also what about the email notification thing.....that was good until it stopped! did you decide we dont need that to?

[Jimbob]

The email notification is a host based issue as I've gone through the DNS logs and there haven't been any changes since the new forum began.

[BrAdZ]

ok ill let adam off that one then, any chance of getting it fixed? whats required?

I Know this is annoying a lot of zoners