MOT woes

Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:48 pm

Well, I've just had the Touring in for it's MOT and it failed on the following:

Nearside rear (to 3 way union) brake pipe excessively corroded
Offside rear (to 3 way union) brake pipe excessively corroded
Parking brake efficiency below requirements.

I tightened up the handbrake last night so it holds solid by the 8th click - any ideas what the problem could be?

Also I've read the rear brake lines are a nightmare to replace, is there anybody in the south east that's any good at this or am I going to have to bite the bullet and pay a garage?

Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:04 pm

Most probably the hand brake shoes are past their best or the retaining pins are on the way out.

Brake pipes are fiddly but not something to be worried about doing. You could get a metal line kit that just needs bending, that and a good brake pipe spanner and your good to go!.
Might as well do the rubber flexi's while your there.....

Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:37 pm

How did you adjust the handbrake? Not by tightening the nuts at the handbrake lever, I hope. These are only for taking up the slack when new cables are fitted!

Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:42 pm

My Touring failed on corroded rear brake lines last week, had them replaced by a local garage the same day... Not the best of jobs I've ever seen but it passed pressure test and the mot re-test.

The problem the garage had was that they couldn't copy the way the factory fitted lines go up and over the rear diff... but as I said, it passed pressure testing and the mot so it's all good.

It cost me £150 in the south east, but I didn't have time to shop around as it's in daily use.

Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:52 pm

Handbrake should be adjusted at the rear drums,mounted as part of the disc.

If you are Mr Moore,you can adjust them with the wheel on by removing a wheel bolt...lesser zoner's like I remove the disc,adjust the thingy,try the disc and repeat untill happy...

Rear brake pipes.
Once again,if you have access to a vehicle lift,they will be an hour's work.
If,like I,you are laid on your arse with the sorry turd on axle stands or drive on ramps you will curse and swear...a lot...
Do buy proper kunifer brake pipe,a decent quality pipe flaring tool and a new set of rear brake flexi's,s/s braided one's are best.
Sacrifice the flexi that passes over the rear beam,cut as close to the ferrule as possible,then slide a deep 14mm socket over the remains,with a proper 11mm brake pipe spanner at the other end this should come apart.

Be prepared to replace the three way union as well,soak it's mounting bolt in WD40 or similar the night before.You may even find it nessesary to cut the front/rear brake pipe upstream of the union to effect a lasting repair.

Replace all components that you disturb,including the spring clip thingy's that steady the pipe fittings.You will find that the only costly bits are the flexi hoses.

Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:06 pm

daimlerman wrote:Handbrake should be adjusted at the rear drums,mounted as part of the disc.

If you are Mr Moore,you can adjust them with the wheel on by removing a wheel bolt...lesser zoner's like I remove the disc,adjust the thingy,try the disc and repeat untill happy...

If the wheel is off, then you don't have enough 'leverage' to turn the hub and check that the brakes are reasonably balanced with the brake partly on. I like to adjust them so that I can just turn the wheel, using considerable effort, with the lever on the fourth click.
A useful tool to aid doing the job, is to solder a very small bulb to a piece of flex, connect it to power, and feed it in through another wheel bolt hole. The job's a lot easier when it's all lit up in there.

Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:19 pm

I just scraped through my retest yesterday with 17% efficiency after replacing the shoes, If you need a set of brake shoes and fitting kit I can sell you them for cheap as i bought 2 sets by accident.

Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:35 pm

Thanks for all the replies guys, going to get under there and see what's involved with sorting the brake lines.
Mr Moore, I adjusted the handbrake via the little star wheel, as you should until I couldn't turn the wheel anymore. After doing this there seemed to be some slack in the cables so I did tighten up the nuts under the lever slightly.

Last time I had the rear brakes off there didn't seem to be much material left on the handbrake shoes so I'll replace these - suhinaffy you have a PM.
Could the problem be with the cables? I adjusted the handbrake properly but I can't vouch for previous owners?!

Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:42 pm

The handbrake will not work very well or for very long if the cables are too tight.
With any car of unknown history, at the first service you back the cables off completely, so that the expanders are definitely closed, and then adjust inside the hub. If this second adjustment is done properly, the handbrake will start to apply as soon as the lever is lifted when the cables are correct. After this, the cables should never need adjusting again.
If you take the discs off, they can be set up even more accurately, and the cables can be given a good "exercising" by pulling the lever fully up and down several times to make sure everything is free.

Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:57 pm

that rear 3 way union is right pita.

Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:02 pm

Brake lines have a bad reputation but really aren't that bad to sort out. The worst bit is always the lying under the car trying to get the old ones undone and dislodging 20 odd years of dirt straight into your eyes...

plenty of WD40 (or plus gas - that stuff is amazing!) and definitely consider doing some cutting if things aren't going well. I had to cut one of the old copper pipes with a hacksaw (slow and painful process) to get to the fitting at the tee piece, but once that was done, a ring spanner got the bugger off very quick! This was after spending literally hours swearing at it and trying to get open ended spanners not to slip. As a matter or cause, replace the T piece as well, and have a good look at the front-to-rear pipe, because while one end is off (at the T), it's a good time to do that also. You definitely don't want to have to go through the aggro again!

Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:20 am

Right, got the old turd up in the air yesterday and had a poke about.

The lines themselves aren't too bad - it where the lines join the T piece, the nuts holding the lines are virtually non existent and will probably just crumble away if you tried to put a spanner on them!

TBH I'm not to confident that I could replace them properly with the beam and tank in place and as I don't have a garage I don't fancy the job in this weather - I think I'll leave it to a garage to sort, so again - anybody know of any good places in the southeast that could help?

Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:41 am

I'm an mot tester in Somerset, my advice is adjust the rear shoes up and clean up the brake lines put some grease on and send it to a different testing station I'm sure it'll go through! Or underseal as it's a visual inspection only and you can't fail what you can't see!

Rob

Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:40 pm

It's Sh!t job!! but once it's done you won't have to do it again, my Touring failed on these pipes,I did try and undo the fittings above the beam but they were rusted solid! I just cut them all off with a pair of tin snips and replaced the flexi pipes and put copper pipes in place of the steel ones, I spoke to the tester and he said as long as the brake pipes are neat and tidy he won't fail it, so from the T piece I put as small as possible length of pipe as I could and joined it to the flexi and it was fine, I relaced the complete front to back pipe as well, it past the test ok, I was well chuffed, plus I saved my self £150

Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:09 pm

had mine done cost me a shit load he had to take the axle off to do it

but there now replaced with copper ones which are meant to last forever. thank god

Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:54 pm

Again, thanks for all the feedback guys!

Just had it to my local garage and they have quoted me - are you sitting down; £1,500 to replace the brake lines and no this isn't from a BMW main dealer.

Their quote is made up of 8 hours labour to remove fuel tank, 3 hours labour to replace brake lines, 4 hours labour to replace subframe bushing (they think they need replacing - I don't) + parts.

Needless to say I will be seeking some other quotes!

Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:18 pm

Longman325Touring wrote:Again, thanks for all the feedback guys!

Just had it to my local garage and they have quoted me - are you sitting down; £1,500 to replace the brake lines and no this isn't from a BMW main dealer.

Their quote is made up of 8 hours labour to remove fuel tank, 3 hours labour to replace brake lines, 4 hours labour to replace subframe bushing (they think they need replacing - I don't) + parts.

Needless to say I will be seeking some other quotes!

W.T.F !!! I Had mine done done for £358 from a bmw specialist and that was brake lines and fuel lines with parts and labour on my 89 325i cab!!

Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:34 pm

Longman325Touring wrote:Again, thanks for all the feedback guys!

Just had it to my local garage and they have quoted me - are you sitting down; £1,500 to replace the brake lines and no this isn't from a BMW main dealer.

Their quote is made up of 8 hours labour to remove fuel tank, 3 hours labour to replace brake lines, 4 hours labour to replace subframe bushing (they think they need replacing - I don't) + parts.

Needless to say I will be seeking some other quotes!

There is no need to remove the fuel tank to do this job,you is having your trousers pulled down!

Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:52 pm

Don't worry, when they called me with the quote I was up there like a shot to remove my vehicle from their premises.

£1.5k is a joke - 8 hours labour to remove the fuel tank?! Perhaps if the work is being undertaken by a lobotomized monkey!

Hopefully I can find someone who is not living on another planet!

Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:19 pm

Where abouts in the south east? My local garage is pukka and the gaffa used to own a white chromie cabby with oxblood interior so knows e30s...

Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:28 pm

bpowell555 wrote:Where abouts in the south east? My local garage is pukka and the gaffa used to own a white chromie cabby with oxblood interior so knows e30s...

I'm just outside of Brighton, where abouts is this garage you talk of?

Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:31 pm

A way off for u in battle east sussex...

Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:35 pm

Fyi they quoted 125 for cambelt plus parts which aint bad

Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:11 pm

Dragging this thread back up, just to have a vent really!

After my initial disappointing quote of £1,500, I've been to several other places with similar poor responses.
Well the latest garage has just come back with a quote of £711. This was to replace the rear solid brake hoses and handbrake cables - parts £61, the rest all labour at £50 an hour.

I'm so depressed with the situation now, I am really considering just fragging the car which would be a shame as she's quite a clean example!

Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:20 pm

Have you tried Ant at A-Tech? www.fastbimmer.co.uk

Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:26 pm

Come on!

You have stripped and re-furbed a headliner,if you can do that you can do rear brake pipes!

OK,you will need to get under the car,so you will need a decent jack and a pair of axle stands,niether will cost a great deal,certainly a lot less than having your trousers lowered at £50 an hour.

This is not rocket science....just good old fashioned nuts and bolts.

Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:37 pm

daimlerman wrote:Come on!

You have stripped and re-furbed a headliner,if you can do that you can do rear brake pipes!

OK,you will need to get under the car,so you will need a decent jack and a pair of axle stands,niether will cost a great deal,certainly a lot less than having your trousers lowered at £50 an hour.

This is not rocket science....just good old fashioned nuts and bolts.

Stripped a headliner?! - think you maybe confusing me with another zoner chap!

I am well aware that it's not rocket science and I'd be quite happy to do it normally as I am well tooled up - however I don't have a driveway, let alone a garage! This is not something I fancy doing in the road in the delightful weather we have ATM.

Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:46 pm

A mian dealer will charge £50 p/h iirc due to age

Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:48 pm

might be worth a trip to battle then,assuming u are in burgess hill area its only 40 mins away

Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:34 am

Right, had a think on this and decided to MTFU and sort it out myself - as Daimlerman says - it's just nuts and bolts!

I'm going to buy the solid lines from BMW as I believe they come cut to the right length and pre flared; I'll just need to bend them to shape?
I'm also going to replace the front to back brake line, as well as the fuel lines as they're all a bit crudy. I have noticed that most people talk about the fixings holding the lines the length of the car WILL sheer off, whats the best solution if/ when this happens? I've read Trev's (B7) thread and he used Rivnuts?

Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:38 am

they come cut and flared but not bent

TBH the lengths and fittings are listed on the real OEM or your ETK , get your local factors to make a set up, be cheaper and easier to work with, BMW lines are steel and require care when bending !

change the flexi hoses too , well worth it, GSF/ECP for those, all same Quality as OEM

for the fuel lines plastic is a NO-no ! IMHO on the E30, OEM the only choice or good second hand.

Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:49 am

In my experience the steel pipes from BMW are a nightmare to bend properly. You only have one shot at it too or they break.

Buy a roll of Kunifer, some ferrules and a flaring tool and make them up yourself. It is very satisfying and if you mess up the bends you can just make another bit. Make sure you don't make the second flare before you've put the ferrule on... that is annoying.

Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:02 am

Ant wrote:they come cut and flared but not bent

TBH the lengths and fittings are listed on the real OEM or your ETK , get your local factors to make a set up, be cheaper and easier to work with, BMW lines are steel and require care when bending !

change the flexi hoses too , well worth it, GSF/ECP for those, all same Quality as OEM

for the fuel lines plastic is a NO-no ! IMHO on the E30, OEM the only choice or good second hand.

Thanks for the advice Ant.
What diameter pipe is needed and what type of flare is used on E30's? Silly questions I know, but I want to go armed with all the info!

Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:15 am

I can see that I am going to get the blame when this goes tits up!

You need kunifer brake pipe,suprisingly easy to work with,and cheap enough to make mistakes with.

Male fittings and a new three way,new flexi's and spring clips to retain them.Buy a handful of the fittings,they are cheap.
Front/rear terminates at a pressure reducing valve located under the brake master on the inner wing,I have never yet been able to successfully remove the fitting from the feed side,I have cut the steel pipe in a convienient place(add a mini pipe cutter to your shopping list!)and flared the steel pipe to take a pipe connector fitting.
Brake pipes are held in plastic fittings,care when levering the old out will help,but a few spares are a good idea.They can be fitted with self tappers,but check behind the panel before drilling!

Kunifer is easy to flare,steel pipe more difficult,try to choose a place with decent working room if you need to flare a steel pipe.

Finally,work safe,support the car properly on decent axle stands at one end and drive on ramps at the other. Yell if you get stuck.

Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:11 pm

Don't worry Daimlerman - I won't blame you when it goes wrong!

I think I'd prefer to get the lines made up as I don't want the expense of buying a cutting, flaring and bending tool. I can get a local motor factor to knock me up the lines as Ant suggests, but I do have concerns about the fitting at the pressure valve - is there no way at all of getting access?