What Brake Pads?

[Rusty_McRusty]

Having just shelled out for a set of M1144s to then find that they're not up to what I was expecting of them, I thought I'd ask what brake pads people are using in stock callipers for occasional track days? The car is technically my daily but I'm loving using it for airfield days as it's a lot cheaper than track days in the S2.

I've done a little digging and see that the Pagid RS-14, 19 & 29 are popular but they're just too much money for me @ ~£150. You get what you pay for but I can't justify that for my useage.

Yellow stuffs seem to get more mixed reviews than any other pads I've seen but are cheap @ ~£60 delivered

M1155 seems to have a lot more heat tolerance than M1144, annoyingly I just missed a set on the 'bay, ~£90 delivered.

Not seen / heard much about Tarox or Red.Dot.

Be most interested to hear options for stock callipers and prices thereof.

Cheers, AndyC

[Kieran_n22]

Pagid are rubbish imo

[N00b]

Pagid are rubbish imo

You'll struggle to find a better pad for any car than a Pagid 29.

[Rusty_McRusty]

Cheers, do you use them yourself? Or know of people that do? What sort of use? Race / Sprints / Trackdays ? Thanks.

unfortunately, as per my original post, they're way over my budget. If the DS2500s weren't so expensive then I'd have gone for them as an all in one pad as they're very good on the S2 (Fr and Rr).

Guess I'm looking at something around the £75 region if a budget was required.

Anyone any experience with the M1155? Having seen the temperature range, I'm now kicking myself that I didn't get them instead but then they were more £ than I wanted to spend and I was concerned that they wouldn't work too well from cold - if the M1144s are anything to go by then I need not have worried.

From what I can find, the EBC yellow stuffs have had a revised compound that has improved them, the thing is that they get such mixed reviews (perhaps because there are old and new pads out there being sold as the same item, perhaps because they're Marmite) that it could be the case of wasting money that could be put towards something worthwhile. As it stands, If I get something else then I'll have spent the same as some DS2500s, Pagid 29s, Carbone Lorraine R5s etc. etc. D'oh

[Kieran_n22]

Pagid are rubbish imo

You'll struggle to find a better pad for any car than a Pagid 29.

I've never used them but I know normal Pagid pads are crap.

[Rusty_McRusty]

The 29s are about 10 times the cost and are designed for and successfully used in racing, they're like a DTM M3 Evo to the OE pagid's 316.

[Kieran_n22]

oh ok, learn a new thing every day lol

[Rusty_McRusty]

Have a look here http://motorsportworld.co.uk/

If you search for E30 and go to brakes, then the Pagid specific section. Prices start at £10 ish and go up to way over £200 a set! There are also many other pad manufacturers and grades on the same site, a useful place to start looking for sure...

[RPM]

Pagid RS 29's are great, they are expensive but the do last alot longer. So you do have the initial outlay but in the long run I believe you save money.

We have run some for 2 seasons and still going strong, where as Mintex 1155's we went through 2 sets in 1 season.

The TAR-OX pads again are very good but at the more expensive end, as are the Ferrodo

EBC are IMO a good budget pad, they dont compare to the above especially in longevity but the prices dont either.

If you are looking at Pagids or TAR-OX drop us an email, I'll sort you out a special price, that may help you get one of the better pads.

[Jhonno]

Check out Performance Friction pads..

[UweM3]

Pagid are rubbish imo

You'll struggle to find a better pad for any car than a Pagid 29.

+1 for Pagid.

[Rusty_McRusty]

Cheers RPM, I'll give you a shout.

Which Pagids are people using and for what useage - I do occasional track excursions so will accept fade towards the end of a 15 min session if it means daily performance is improved. The main issue I have with the M1144 was that they made a horrendous noise when too hot rather than just slip into progressive fade.

Which grade Tarox (same stipulation as above)? The 114s seem to be the allrounder but the operating temp sweet spot seems a little low at 200-400 degC. I know from the M1144s that I'm reaching their limits of 400-450 degC according to the info I can find, the discs were also taking on a very light blue tinge. 116s are described as noisy on the road.

http://en.tarox.com/products/brake-pad- ... 3f7f1r5a28

[djs325]

Performance Friction PFC06. Part numbers:
Front: 0278.06.17.44
Rear: 0279.06.16.44

Job done.

[Rusty_McRusty]

Cheers, just looking for a UK supplier to get a price...

Demon Tweeks don't list pads for an E30 but using those part numbers I might be able to sort something, I'll keep looking.

[Theo]

Cordsport are Performance Friction suppliers - just looked at their price list (which is from June, so might be slightly out of date) and fronts are £75.06+vat, rears are 73.45+vat which seems very reasonable.

[Rusty_McRusty]

Edit:- too slow...

http://www.coordsport.com/

Seems to be good VFM, would be interested to know if there is an equivalent friction compound in Ferodo or Mintex as I am more aware of their ranges.

Quoting off the PF website:-

01 compound

01 is one of the most popular race compounds in the PFC's arsenal. Slightly higher bite and torque for the first 2/3's of the stop than 83 compound. At the end of the stop, 01 compound has less torque scatter for improved modulation with excellent release and a flat torque curve. 01 compound is very easy on the discs with very low wear, on par with 83 compounds.

01 Recommended Applications:

• 01 is recommended as an all-purpose pad in a wide variety of applications.
  NASCAR Short Track and Road Course
  NASCAR Speedway and Intermediate
  All Oval Track Race series
  IndyCar
  Professional GT
  Daytona Prototype
  SCCA Racing
  Porsche/BMW/Corvette/Viper Club Racing

06 Compound

06 compound pads are very similar to PFC 01 for both bite and torque, within 4% of those values. Excellent release and control with very low wear. Very low abraded disc wear with a ”apowdery type”a transfer layer. 06 pads are an excellent alternative to other brands of endurance compounds but with much higher performance. Excellent for club racing type shapes as well in OE brake calipers where ABS is used.

06 Recommended Applications:

• Endurance Sportscar and GT
  NASCAR Short Track and Road Course Rear
  NASCAR Speedway and Intermediate Rear
  All Oval Track Race series Rear
  SCCA Racing
  Porsche/BMW Club Racing
  Track Day and Driver Education events

Can't find any friction coefficient vs. temperature data to compare it to other brands.

[N00b]

I heart my yellows.
I believe they're the best "bang for the buck" pad out there.

[spic]

EBC yellows in my E30 and my old porker... more than happy with them once there bedded in .

[Rusty_McRusty]

What are you guys using the yellows for - road / track day / sprint / race? Ta

[spunkylotus]

I use EBC Yellows on mine, the R Compound.
Its only used for Racing and Track days, no problems so far.

[Rusty_McRusty]

Cheers, that's good to know.

[keri-WMS]

As an approximation we supply EBC Reds for about 80% of people (most of which will be doing track days), EBC Yellows for 10% of the more hardcore track/race types, 5% Ferodo DS2500 and 5% Ferodo DS3000.

Pagid's race pads have a really good (universal) reputation for a more expensive pad, and I'm hearing more good things about Performance Friction recently from E30 owners.

[Rusty_McRusty]

I'm used to the performance of the DS2500s on my S2 so I'd like to get close to them, if possible, but they're a small fortune on the BMW for one reason or another. The pads for my Porsche 996 brakes are cheaper!

[keri-WMS]

DS2500's are £47.20+vat in WMS caliper fit, one advantange of using motorsport-standard bits!

[Jhonno]

DS2500's are crap..

I've seen EBC reds fall apart after a few laps of the Ring in a low power 200sx.. The complaint to EBC resulted in a free set of yellows and an apology saying Reds were not designed to be used on track.

[Kos]

i've used DS2500's, they are good but you need to match them up with a good disc, good fluid.

i;ve used EBC reds on my compact, hard use on the road and did a track day with them and was still able to drive home

[keri-WMS]

hehe - I love pads, they really are massively subjective! I'm bloody glad there's a good range out there...

It really does come down to personal choice, or I suspect more to driving style and car setup - especially as the low temp limit VS high temp limit VS friction ceof level VS noise VS dust VS wear rates VS disc damage VS cost are all at odds with each other, creating a range of mixed up compromises!

Normally there's the ideal pad out there for everyone, but you have to find it, and for some people it'll cost a lot more than for others.

[Rusty_McRusty]

DS2500's are crap..

For what reasons?

Interested as my experience of DS2500s on my S2 are that they're very good for fast road and hard track day use.

Indeed Keri, there are so many to choose from, that's why I started this thread - to see if there was a current favourite. It seems that there are many different pads that come recommended over a price range of ~£50-£200

The PF pads get consistently good reviews on the web so they sound like a sure bet and are sensible money.

It's difficult to filter the information on the yellows: some dislike it because it's a track day pad so is compromised on the road, others because they've had bad experience with EBC in the past (there's a lot of bad feeling from what I can find), others because of third hand experiences. Overall, it's not a picture that fills me with confidence, although more recent feedback hints that the issues are historical and are being sorted.

Pagid are great I'm sure but £ is prohibitive there - a shame.

Mintex M1155 doesn't seem to get mentioned too much, Mintex have said that it should be suitable but then they the pitfalls of the M1144 weren't mentioned when I contacted them about them before purchasing and saying, 'that's what we expect to happen' didn't make me too pleased.

[Rusty_McRusty]

DS2500's are £47.20+vat in WMS caliper fit, one advantange of using motorsport-standard bits!

Yes and with bigger brakes there's more mass to absorb the heat too so it's win-win really. Unfortunately, as I can't justify a set of pads, the whole brake conversion might have to wait

[keri-WMS]

There's a few things I've heard:

EBC stuff used to be a bit iffy (old tales of crumbly Yellows etc), but a lot of that was years ago now and I know for a fact that the compounds have been improved at least once - the Reds/Yellows I've supplied in the last few years seem to have be fine for MOST people, with the odd exception.

Mintex 1144's are not too amazing, and 1155's chew discs up - (less direct sources here!)

Ferodo DS2500 and DS3000 seem to wear a bit too fast for some people?

[GeoffBob]

DS2500's are crap..

Your supposed to install them with the friction surface facing towards the disc .

[Jhonno]

DS2500's are crap..

Your supposed to install them with the friction surface facing towards the disc .

Ahhhh...

[N00b]

I've got the revised "R" yellows and the car is used on the road (occasionally to commute), I've driven it quickly on the road and also spanked the back doors off it around the ring.
Two things stood out to me.

1) I couldn't get them to fade.....at all.
2) The constant warning that they didn't work properly until you got some heat in them proved to be, in my opinion, a myth. My car stops perfectly from cold, and even better when the pads are warmed up.


Just one note of warning, to get the best from these you really have to bed them in properly.

[keri-WMS]

That's a good point with the EBC pads, they have a "break in coating" which is high friction and abrasive......but ideally needs to be worn off before the disc / pad are run too hot as you'll get hot spots / rings.

Not a huge issue, but my youngest brother did manage to warp some discs on his Leon at the 'Ring on new EBC reds and I suspect this is why. (he had huge great pads on that car, and due to sliding-caliper uneven wear the tops of the pads were the proper material, the bottom of the pads still had break-in stuff getting in the way).

[Jhonno]

To be fair, the Ring isn't a brake heavy circuit.. Once you know it.

All pads require proper bedding in also!