Help and recomendations with system

[TouringTash]

5Hz Rav sure? from a 12" dome???

[Rav335uk]

I'll check the reciept, it might be 1991, as these were in my E28 M5, which I had then.

[Alex]

5Hz Rav sure? from a 12" dome???

he cant read the small print on the back that well anymore

[BadDave]

Hate to say it,
BTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

Your all wrong.

What you really need to push out some decent choons is a pair of these bad boys wth suitable ampage,housed in a custom trailer.



http://www.mtx.com/caraudio/products/su ... hammer.cfm

To quote an old Rockford Fosgate slogan

For when too much is just right

[e30maddog]

oh ffs rofl, would they not take the tarmac with em as they go?

[Alex]

Hate to say it,
BTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

Your all wrong.

What you really need to push out some decent choons is a pair of these bad boys wth suitable ampage,housed in a custom trailer.



http://www.mtx.com/caraudio/products/su ... hammer.cfm

To quote an old Rockford Fosgate slogan

For when too much is just right

I bet you could use one of them to frag a Daewoo Matiz

[TouringTash]

a speaker that goes down to 0Hz with no drop off

[ImysE30]

Jackhammer FTMFW

http://www.videovat.com/videos/1230/pim ... -bass.aspx

[e30maddog]

rofl, 6k rms.. and 900oz magnet.. thats just sick...

[ImysE30]

If I win the lottery i'm going to buy 1 and fit it in an E30 touring

[Rav335uk]

5Hz Rav sure? from a 12" dome???

No, the Box design, and there are 2 of them in there.
You're more than welcome to bring a "Test" disc.

[TouringTash]

Its the speaker that moves the air, the box determines how the speaker does this. It can make the speakers life easier or harder.

[Rav335uk]

Its the speaker that moves the air, the box determines how the speaker does this. It can make the speakers life easier or harder.

Correct, you are learning something

That's whay a box design is so important

[TouringTash]

too late for me to learn anything new. I just do it the same way as Casey did.

So whay is the box design so important, surely as long as the volume is correct the shape does not matter

[_Jay_]

As for which speakers up front, this becomes a personal choice as I would still fork out a ton for comps up front, which in some eyes is silly and a waste. The location and space for the fronts is poor sound wise, well it is a car not the bbc radio theatre but poor speakers in a poor location are well poor but good speakers in a poor location will sound better and with a cheekie EQ tucked out of the way can pay SOME dividends.

JAY stick with Rockfords and you'll never go wrong.

What Rockford Fosgates would you recomend then? And how exactly would an independent EQ work then?

[TouringTash]

hold tight I have to walk the mutt
Have a look here http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/rftech.asp

I've been given the heads up on a denon amp that maybe the way forward .
An eq you use to set up a system https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ion_filter that will explain it better than I ever could but the clue is in the name.

I've gone for some alpine comps for front and rears but in no rush as the touring is not gonna see the snow or any salt.

time for a slip or three for me now, the dog loves it

[BadDave]

As for which speakers up front, this becomes a personal choice as I would still fork out a ton for comps up front, which in some eyes is silly and a waste. The location and space for the fronts is poor sound wise, well it is a car not the bbc radio theatre but poor speakers in a poor location are well poor but good speakers in a poor location will sound better and with a cheekie EQ tucked out of the way can pay SOME dividends.

JAY stick with Rockfords and you'll never go wrong.

What Rockford Fosgates would you recomend then? And how exactly would an independent EQ work then?

Pre 1993 RF's are pretty much bombproof.
After that,there were some QC issues for a while and the components installed were not of the same high quality(bloody accountants)

A 1/3rd octave(30band eq) would be ideal, although a 15band 1/2 octave one would suffice.
Audiocontrol make good ones with high end components(hence the asking price)
I have 2 here which I'm not using(an EQL and an EQx with build in 2ch crossover)

A parametric EQ would be even better or a 5.1 processor if you've got funds.

I use an Alpine PXA-H510 which has both built in and uses the Ai-net setup,AND does have RCA inputs for a non Alpine based system

Parametrics allow you to adjust not only the frequency, but a bit either side of the freq and the ability to boost or cut the level as well.

5.1 (or Dolby) processors offer time alighnment(correction) for each speaker so the sound from each corner of the car hits your ears at the same time, a bit like sitting in the middle of the car rather than offset to the front and one side.
A more precise version of fader and balance on a std Headunit would be a better way to describe them.

[TouringTash]

Crumbs I was looking to fork out around 400 for a few bits and bobs but as usual I'll get a little more carried away an will now up my limit to 420
I have spent many an hour with my tape measure, bits of string and the odd thick book or ten when setting up a 5.1 at home. Parametric stuff is way beyond me, I had a student sound engineer lodge at mine when I was into the rave scene and dragged the innocent 17 year old into a dark and murkey world. He loved kicking back for the night looking after the rigs and he showed me all about setting up but my ears have had too much front line action and I can just about be trusted with bass and treble. I still haven't sat down and adjusted the series 21 kenwood stuff I picked up from the bay for peanuts, and that was over a month ago

[_Jay_]

I understand that you get what you pay for, but dont have tons to spend at the moment. I estimate it all to come to £600 roughly for what I have been looking at so far.

Heard a set of the Vibe Black Air components earlier, they are 300w max and about 100w rms so pack a fair bit of punch. If I get a set of these for the front and a set for the rear, what would be the best amp to power these?

And what would be the best amp to power two Alpine Type R 12" subs?

Now need to look in to getting an equaliser. How would one of these be wired in?

[_Jay_]

And is it possible to set it up without an eq and then always add one at a later stage without too much hassle?

[BadDave]

And what would be the best amp to power two Alpine Type R 12" subs?

Apparently they like upwards of 300watts RMS each.
We'd need to know if they are dual 4 ohm or dual 2 ohm voice coils.
Any chance of the model number??

Now need to look in to getting an equaliser. How would one of these be wired in?

Using RCA's(phono plugs) between the headunit and amplifier

Some wiring options here.
http://www.audiocontrol.com/t34/21366/S ... tions.html

[_Jay_]

Right will have a little more of a look in to the equaliser then.

As for the subs, this is copied straight off of the Alpine site: SWR-1222D/SWR-1242D - 12" (30cm) Subwoofer (2Ohm+2Ohm / 4Ohm+4Ohm).

[_Jay_]

Howwould this be at powering the two subs?

Lanzar VIBE 1800D Digital MonoBlock Sub Amp Amplifier 1800w Digital D Class / 1 Ohm Stable

[BadDave]

As for the subs, this is copied straight off of the Alpine site: SWR-1222D/SWR-1242D - 12" (30cm) Subwoofer (2Ohm+2Ohm / 4Ohm+4Ohm).

These are 2 different subs

Do you have/intend to buy the 1222 or the 1242?

Once we know this,we can work out what load impedence the amp needs to be stable too,then offer possible suggestion

[_Jay_]

I was leaning more towards the 1222 up to this point as its a little cheaper per sub but offeres pretty much the same performance.

[BadDave]

Ok
With the 1222 2+2ohm dvc sub there are 3 wiring options


Option 1 = Amp see's a 0.5ohm load requiring an amp stable to 0.5ohms

Option 2 = Amp see's a 2ohm load requiring an amp stable to 2ohms

Option 3 = Amp see's a 4ohm load requiring an amp stable to 4ohms

As 1/2 ohm stable amps are rare and expensive. that rules out option 1
So were looking for 2 300w-500W rms @ 2 ohm monoblocks
OR 1 monoblock which can deliver 600-1000W rms
OR a high output 2 or 4channel amp capable of running 2 ohms unless of course you prefer to run them at 4 ohms, in which case things could get cheaper

[BadDave]

Howwould this be at powering the two subs?

Lanzar VIBE 1800D Digital MonoBlock Sub Amp Amplifier 1800w Digital D Class / 1 Ohm Stable

Specs would suggest it's a capable performer,however,without knowing at what voltage the amp was tested at(ost likely 14.4V) It would possibly not push out the quoted figures at 13.2-13.4V which you battery normally pushes out

[Shaheenk]

Ok
With the 1222 2+2ohm dvc sub there are 3 wiring options


Option 1 = Amp see's a 0.5ohm load requiring an amp stable to 0.5ohms

Option 2 = Amp see's a 2ohm load requiring an amp stable to 2ohms

Option 3 = Amp see's a 4ohm load requiring an amp stable to 4ohms

As 1/2 ohm stable amps are rare and expensive. that rules out option 1
So were looking for 2 300w-500W rms @ 2 ohm monoblocks
OR 1 monoblock which can deliver 600-1000W rms
OR a high output 2 or 4channel amp capable of running 2 ohms unless of course you prefer to run themat 4 ohms, in which case things could get cheaper

Huh.

how do you get option 3 ,

you have 3options for 2 x DVC series 2Ohm woofers, 0.5ohm, 2ohm or 8ohm, not 4 ohm. You dont want to mix series and parallel up to get 4ohm.

Speakers are resistors, you need to observe the laws around ohmage else you will end up feeding 1 speaker more then the other.

I read throught this whole post and have do disagree (with Respect) on a few points.

1. You can fit a 6in in the front of a E30 in the kick , it has to be a shallow 6in but it can be done, have a look at the older MB quart stuff, they good, go loud and super efficient. Yes they do need an amp ,but are happy on anything from 50rms up.

2. 1 woofer would be more then enough if firing into the cabin of the car, if you firing into the boot, the E30 does tend to loose a lot of bass. I would suggest mounting with woofer on the back shelf firing up , this works well and provides enough bass, if you want more then 2 x 10's work too. SVC or DVC the one is not better then the other, they are both the same woofer, they just have the coils matched so you have more wiring options.

3. You do not need a 30 band EQ, or a 15 band or even a parametic or a 5.1 for a decent sounding car, the more toys you put in the easier it is to make things sound worst. A decent headunit will have more then enough controls to tame an average listener. If you really want a nice headunit , have a look at the pioneer P88RSII , it has everything you need without the need for additional equipment.

4. Bass is not everything, the most important bits of info in bass are sub 60Hz, most music has most of it;s energy between 80Hz and 10Khz, we concentrate too much on the lower octaves and not enough on the upper ones, this makes cars sound boomy.

So how many amps do you need , how many speakers and how much noise, well thats up to you. for an average system 2 amps should be more then adequate and in some cases you can even settle on a single amp, 2 channels to drive the fronts and 2 channels for a woofer, if you looking at this option then you need a 4ohm woofer.

If you want a bit more power into your woofer, then a strong 2 channel or mono block will do , if you going the 2 channel route then 4ohm woofer again or 2 x 8ohm drivers or 2 4ohm DVC's.

if you want a mono block then you need something which will extract the most power from that amp , less resisitance means more power , but you need to understand what stability means , and how it affects your choice in speakers.

2ohm stable mono block means just that, the lowest ohmage you can drive on that amp without it burning up is 2ohms, any lower and you risk damage to the speaker and amplifier. Most Mono's will happily do 2ohm all day , but then you need to know about control and ohmage too.

Lots of things make a good sounding vehicle, only 1 thing makes a great souding 1 , thats knowledge.

If you need more info I can happily assist.

and I have not even gotten into THD's and current and high current vs high voltage amps yet.

[_Jay_]

So if I was to buy one amp to power both subs at 2ohm, what pwer do I need it to be reading as an rms at that ohm? the subs are 500w rms each, so does that mean the amp has to have an rms of 1000w at 2ohm?

[Shaheenk]

If you want 2 woofers then yes, you would be looking at 1 amp which makes 1000rms @2Ohm. It can be more as woofers do like a bit of extra power .

This I assume would be a monoblock (or single channel amp) , yes they do have 4 connectors on , but are still only 1 channel and are "bridged" internally to make wiring a bit easier.


I am not a huge fan of Monoblocks as I prefer large class A/B amps.

If you are looking at RF and seriously considering it then look at the P2 and P3 woofers, they dont need a truckload of power and sound really good.

Their amps of late leave a lot to be desired , but then there are loads of amps out there.

Whats your budget , speakers amps and headunit , no install obviously.

[_Jay_]

Install me and my old man can work that out once we get the right amps for the speakers etc. Already got a decent Pioneer dvd head unit, nopt sure of the model number though.

Pretty certain of getting the two Alpine 12" Type R's, being the convertible I think the extra kick is needed, and heard a set and they sounded pretty sweet.

As for the components up front I was thinking the Vibe Black Airs, seen good reviews on them, and had vibe stuff in the past and was quite impressed by them. So for that part I work it out to be about £370 so far. Was looking to spend about £650 on total, so about £280 to spend on amps. Was thinking one for the components front and rear, and then a second amp on the two subs. Although open to the option of having a smaller amp per sub.

Its this point with the amps that seems to be stopping me in my tracks mainly.

[Shaheenk]

no need to amplify your rears, specially not in a cab, rather go better speakers upfront then a bigger amp.

There are loads of bargins to be had on some of the audio forums, this is the season where people sell off loads of stuff to make money for pressies.

I am not a fan of the vibe stuff, does not have the class and sounds quite harsh , I find their tweeter very shrilly and the mid lacks midbass attack.

Look at CDT Audio , Focal , DLS and German Maestro for splits, you wont go wrong with any of them, for the rears a simple co-ax will surfice off the headunit, here you can go for the alpines, they work well.

There is a beautiful set of 6in Focal polyglass for 140 on talk audio.

For amplifiers, I guess it comes down to personal taste , do you prefer any perticular makes, is there a type you like.

the woofers you have selected are not the most efficient , looks like they need a kick up the backside to get moving, the problem with this is , on a weak amp you have the tendency to boost the bass, and turn the gains up , this causes heat and heat breaks woofers.

I know I am not helping much with my answers, but I still think you can find good bargins and achive a lot.

[_Jay_]

All info helps at the end of the day so appreciate all the answers I can get in this thread.

Would it not be better to get the same set of components in the rear as the front and power them to get better sound rather than getting a set of coaxials off the headunit?

Will have a look at some of these makes you suggested then. Would you say look on ebay as well as the audio forums or stay well clear of there? Always thought buying second hand audio would be a dodgy idea.

As for a particular make for amps, not really. In my last car it was a bit of a mish mash of audio that I got quite cheap. Sounded ok, but the amps were branded as Shark, but seen the same amps with different plates on them so cant be that good.

[Shaheenk]

Hey dude

ever been to a concert or live show, notice all the sound comes from the front, also notice your ears point that way too, rear is just fill, does not add anything to the sound besides getting a bit louder. Stick with Co-axes off the headunit, use a small cap to filter low freq and you will be fine.

Ebay is not a bad place, however with a dedicated forum you can see the actual products and speak to people who own them , audio needs to be listened to , not just looked at.

I have some old school kicker amps if you are looking and dont wanna spend too much.

[_Jay_]

Fair point I suppose.

What would you say about the Kicker ZX1000.1? Got the chance to buy one for £180, Seller says its 1285Wrms @ 2 ohm. Worth a look for these subs?