Cheap Turbo ECU Possibly From Another Turbo Car?

[crazymonk]

Hi, I have a 320 convertible 1989 model, that will eventually be completely rebuilt as it's a bit ratty, but for now I'd like to do a real made from bits turbo conversion on it for a bit of fun. I don't really care if the engine doesn't last that long as it won't be staying in the car anyway. I'm looking to do something low pressure, and just to give it a bit of extra kick. I have most of the parts to do the conversion anyway, injectors, fuel pressure regulator, intercooler etc, I'd just need a turbo and an ecu. My car has already been modified to run a lambda sensor, and has the 325 throttle body conversion with the larger afm from a 535. What I really need to know is whats the cheapest way of sorting an ecu, I don't really want to go down the megasquirt route, as I am having a customised ecu made for my new engine but that won't be for a little white yet, so I don't want to have to spend much on another one,.
Could I use the standard ecu at all? or could a piggy back be used, and if so where can I get one? Also could another ecu from something like a six cylindered jap turbo car be used, or is there far more involved to try an do that?

[koh]

theres the greddy emanage blue piggyback,these can be sourced pretty cheap

[BONNARSKI]

You get any more info no this lad? Had wondered the same about something like a Supra or Skyline ECU setup in the E30 to run a low boost turbo lump.

[TouringTash]

maybe call Ant at A Tech?


A friendly guy who knows what what.



note
other suppliers can be found near and far on the zone.

[Ant]

you could boost the stock motronic you already have guys.

dependant on flow rate you may need a larger AFM/MAF conversion or use a MAP sensor instead.

provided the input side of the ECU is mapped to the revised sensor, then the main maps remapped to suit the revised engine's requirements, there would be no real issue.

bigger injectors are a must have item mind !

[Gunni]

A tightened up 535i AFM will measure airflow to abit above 250hp so as long as it´s infront of the turbo you can tune it.

You need bigger injectors for sure .

[HairyScreech]

id suggest the nissan turbo 6 pot ecu, the liner or the 300zx should suffice, they can be mapped with a daughter board as well.


ot but ant can you make the 401 ecu for a m60b40 boostable? we would like to stick ~10psi down one in the not to distant future.

[BONNARSKI]

I have all the M30 bits, injectors, AFM and TB ( not fitted though ), so if i was to fit the TB ( porting the plenium to match ofcourse ), injectors and stiffened the MAF spring whats the max boost the standard Motronic could deal with?

I also got an Evolve chip from a mate and got a chap to read the map and it had the fueling increased but the timing retarded. Was it made for a turbo engine?

I'm not after mad power, i would love it but the budget says otherwise lol

[Gunni]

id suggest the nissan turbo 6 pot ecu, the liner or the 300zx should suffice, they can be mapped with a daughter board as well.


ot but ant can you make the 401 ecu for a m60b40 boostable? we would like to stick ~10psi down one in the not to distant future.

To get a nissan ecu to work it a monumental excersize and totally a waste of time to do so.

The 401 can be boosted just like everything else. A larger MAF housing and injectors will always make the ecu understand more airflow

[BONNARSKI]

Any more info?

[Gunni]

What exact info do you want?
Me and other people could write on for days about this stuff. but we need your help to maintain specifics .

[BONNARSKI]

I could read on for days lad about this stuff.

You not read my reply post? I listed all the parts i have and if by fitting them and getting the ECU mapped to suit would that work? Also what would the max boost the standard Motronic could handle before i'd have to go stand alone ECU?
Plus about the Evolve chip i have that has increased fueling but the spark retarded and whether it was designed for a turbo application?

Thats what i want to know for a start lol

[Gunni]

I know for a fact that the evolve chip does infact advance timing.


I´d say that the motronic is only limited by the MAF/AFM size you use. And for a M30 one you should be able to run close to 270-280hp. But a standalone WILL be better in every way.

[BONNARSKI]

A standalone would be ideal but i'd be happy with arround the 250hp mark with the Motronic to start with. I'm always looking for a cheap MS on flee bay so fingers crossed.
By how much would the M30 AFM spring need to be tensioned and whats the reason that it needs to be fitted infront of the turbo instead of the factory position?
Also i see some people use a M21 diesel oil pumpfor more oil presure but does a M51 oil pump produce the same oil presure? I can't find a M21 pump and the M51 is a handier option if worth while.

[Gunni]

the M51 would not fit a M20.

The amount the AFM has to be adjusted would need testing per vehicle.

If it´s infront of the vehicle it can work in it´s designed manor and measure pressure differential across inlet and outlet. It will not do this correctly when after turbo.

For non racing purposes an upraded oil pump is not needed, this is a BMW not a Nissan.

[BONNARSKI]

Good job lad thanks.

[DmcL]

there is absolutely no need for aftermarket management, piggyback management or a retrofit from another car (unless its an upgrade from older motronic to motronic 1.3).

there are turbo chips out there for up to 7-8psi on an M20, ive got a few tunes here for just such an engine, it will require larger fuel injectors tho.

standalone management only really comes into it if the owner is flush or u get into a serious BHP build. there are boosted M20's (with internal work, lowered CR, etc, etc.) still running motronic and putting down 300bhp and more. problem there is finding someone competent enough who works with motronic.. many people have to go standalone much sooner than they would actually need to due to lack of support for motronic.

[Gunni]

Standalone management does more then just control fuel and ignition.

Boost control
Wideband control
Logging ability
are just the bare minimum.
If you where to buy those individually your looking at quite some extra cash. That could raher be spent on a standalone from the start.

[DmcL]

yea thats true but its hard to beat motronic for a cheap and cheerful turbo conversion. all depends really on how far u plan to take the turbo setup on the M20. if its around 300bhp or less motronic will do fine unless u need the extra features available with a standalone setup.

when/if i boost my M20 it will be with the stock motronic.. i am slightly biased tho as i can map motronic myself and do chips, etc. so its a big money saver for me if i ever get around to collecting up all the bits and peices to stick on a blower.

[bmwonly]

yea thats true but its hard to beat motronic for a cheap and cheerful turbo conversion. all depends really on how far u plan to take the turbo setup on the M20. if its around 300bhp or less motronic will do fine unless u need the extra features available with a standalone setup.

when/if i boost my M20 it will be with the stock motronic.. i am slightly biased tho as i can map motronic myself and do chips, etc. so its a big money saver for me if i ever get around to
collecting up all the bits and peices to stick on a blower.

how would you control boost?? amal valve?

[eta]

Well I am going to start boosting my M20B27 very soon. I will need a turbo chip for motronic 1.3 to use with the RRFPR that I will have to use.

I presume A-tech can do one but I would need an off the self one so I can get it running to drive it safely and then maybe get A-tech to a proper chip for it.

I kind of thought the wastegate was the boost control.

[Gunni]

You don´t have to use a RRFPR

[eta]

So how would I control fueling then as motronic ECU won't sense the boost and I have not anything but the AFM atm.

[bmwonly]

a good question, can't find answwer to this one.

[Gunni]

Get a larger AFM, a MAF conversion or a MAP conversion or standalone or piggyback add on

depends on the boost you want to run and what injectors you have.

With a M30 AFM you can tigthen the spring a bit and run larger injectors.

[eta]

Well I have an M30 (027) AFM and I was going to run M30B35 injectors (I think they are 19lbers). For boost, I had in mind ~0.5 bar so I should hopefully see ~230 hp assuming I run an intercooler which I will have to as intake temperatures without one could be 70+C assuming an ambient temp of 20C based on the abiabatic heating equation. So on a hot day it will get very hot without an intercooler.

I just thought that with the manilfold pressure higher than atmospheric under boost (therefore a inlet manifold pressue of 1.5 bar) the 3.0 bar FPR that is on the car would not deliver enough fuel as the pressure differential would be 1.5 bar not 2 bar or have I got this completely wrong.

While I have no problem in spending the money on a standalone sytstem it would just drag out the project. I had already considered a piggyback systIem and a MAF but I would have to drive the car to such a place first so I need to get it running on the AFM first.

So all I need to do is use an M30 AFM and M30B35 injectors or will the injectors have to be larger? I will need to wire in the IAT after the intercooler I presume. So is as simple as above Gunni or is there more?

[Gunni]

The fuel pressure will rise to 3.5bar under 0.5bar boost.

and it would be 4bar under 1bar boost and so on on the stock fuel pressure regulator to maintain 3bar pressure across the injectors.

If you get the M30 injectors and MAF you effectively have converted to a M30 system.
Which will be able to handle the airflow. Just stick the AFM infront of the turbo for accurate metering.

You will require a live mapping or at least need to map it yourself.

[eta]

Thanks Gunni, looks like I had my understanding backwards. I have learnt a fair bit planning this install. Getting the ECU is the easy part now as 20 miles from the place I will do the install I can get Unichip fitted and mapped for £600-£700, I forget the exact price.

I will be using a 525TDS exhaust manifold with a TD04HL-16T turbo from a 1998 T5. I was hoping that the turbo would blt up to the manifold as the 525TDS uses a TD04-11G trbo but also no. An adapater will have to be made to allow the turbo to bolt up and another adapter will have to be made to allow the manifold to bolt up to the cylinder head. I am having a fabricator looking into this now. I will also use a T5 intercooler as those a re cheap and match the turbo.

The whole install will cost £1500-£1600 and £1100-1200 of that will be the exhaust and the unchip fitting and mapping.

Its good to know the fueling/engine management side of things just got cheaper.

[Gunni]

700 for the unichip fitted and mapped?
Thats standalone ecu terratory + tiny more for full installation.

Think long and HARD before you drop 700 on unichip.

Besides whatever the unichip can be made to do so can the stock ecu for alot less ;)