Hi there, does anyone know what the optimum set-up figures for an e30 would be? Camber, castor and toe for the front and camber and toe for the rear end, regardless of the standard equipments capabilities.
Understandably it would vary between road and track, and different tracks. So say for example the closest track to home, Castle coombe and would this vary much to a track like the Nurburgring?
Thanks
Mark
Track day set up
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I have found, after sharing my car with my Dad at track days and super sprints, that we have different driving styles, and as such, like to set the car up differently (at the same track, on the same day, in the same weather).
I therefore don't think that there is a optimum setup for an E30 or any car (just look at the comprimised every LeMans driver makes when setting up the car.
Our rules of thumb (from our own experience);
Soft rear bar with medium to soft rear damper - depending on the weather and the tyres we are running.
Hard front bar and 3/4 hard front dampers (we run V2 KW).
Play with tyre pressures a lot (we have found 1 to 2 psi higher in the front improves the overall balance). Also, start pressure (for R-spec tyres) around the 25 psi mark as a good starting point.
As much camber and caster as you can get.
About 2 deg toe out works for us okay, however we have not played with toe at the track yet (we have all the string line gear, but haven't had an opportunity to date).
LSD! No ifs, no buts.... LSD (and a nice tight one at that). Our good LSD (I have 2) almost acts like a spool on grass it is that tight. Makes life so much easier when punching out of corners.
Lastly, the driver. Don't try and over drive the car. Learn the car, and more importantly the tyres, before really starting to learn on it. Also, find someone experienced at driving the track, and follow them for as many laps as you can. It is from following those guys that you learn where the racing line really is (not where it looks like it is).
Have fun.
I therefore don't think that there is a optimum setup for an E30 or any car (just look at the comprimised every LeMans driver makes when setting up the car.
Our rules of thumb (from our own experience);
Soft rear bar with medium to soft rear damper - depending on the weather and the tyres we are running.
Hard front bar and 3/4 hard front dampers (we run V2 KW).
Play with tyre pressures a lot (we have found 1 to 2 psi higher in the front improves the overall balance). Also, start pressure (for R-spec tyres) around the 25 psi mark as a good starting point.
As much camber and caster as you can get.
About 2 deg toe out works for us okay, however we have not played with toe at the track yet (we have all the string line gear, but haven't had an opportunity to date).
LSD! No ifs, no buts.... LSD (and a nice tight one at that). Our good LSD (I have 2) almost acts like a spool on grass it is that tight. Makes life so much easier when punching out of corners.
Lastly, the driver. Don't try and over drive the car. Learn the car, and more importantly the tyres, before really starting to learn on it. Also, find someone experienced at driving the track, and follow them for as many laps as you can. It is from following those guys that you learn where the racing line really is (not where it looks like it is).
Have fun.
Cheers,
Michael.
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Rallyprep_UK
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great advice !!
thanks, my first track car is nearing completion - well it will driveable soon, then its paint etc...
I cannot wait to start playing with geometry and pressures and getting the car to feel how I want it.
My first track day is next month (the ring) in a friends e28 24v. I cant wait
thanks, my first track car is nearing completion - well it will driveable soon, then its paint etc...
I cannot wait to start playing with geometry and pressures and getting the car to feel how I want it.
My first track day is next month (the ring) in a friends e28 24v. I cant wait
Front: 0.5-1.0mm toe out each side. Camber (depending on tyres) 3.0-4.5 degrees. Castor as much as you can get.
Rear: 1.0-2.0mm toe in each side (if you can get it that low). Camber 2.0-3.0 degrees.
Trim car with anti-roll bars (all the way through corner) and dampers (transfer from throttle to brake, into and out of corners).
Rear: 1.0-2.0mm toe in each side (if you can get it that low). Camber 2.0-3.0 degrees.
Trim car with anti-roll bars (all the way through corner) and dampers (transfer from throttle to brake, into and out of corners).
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just out of curiosity, why are you guys fancy front toe OUT so much? Apart from excessive tyre wear I couldn't see/feel any significant benefits for just track day fun. It will eat your tyre edges in no time on the road. I lost a set of front tyres in ONE trip to the Nuerburgring and back.
And without mechanical modifications you can't alter any settings on the E30 anyway. just front toe.
And without mechanical modifications you can't alter any settings on the E30 anyway. just front toe.
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Black_Potato
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As you will find out approach varies...
Toe is normally nominal, but never toe in.
If you can adjust with top mounts/bushes then..
Camber at the front 3-4 degrees
Camber at the rear is often driven by ride height and is normally as little as possible, say 1 degree.
Caster, around factory setting which is -9 degrees
The back of the car should be left soft for traction
lots more to discuss if you want to do the whole hog with ARB's, spring rates, tyres blah blah blah. and then its down to personal preference anyway when you get into the fettling.
Toe is normally nominal, but never toe in.
If you can adjust with top mounts/bushes then..
Camber at the front 3-4 degrees
Camber at the rear is often driven by ride height and is normally as little as possible, say 1 degree.
Caster, around factory setting which is -9 degrees
The back of the car should be left soft for traction
lots more to discuss if you want to do the whole hog with ARB's, spring rates, tyres blah blah blah. and then its down to personal preference anyway when you get into the fettling.
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Black_Potato
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And no.. the setup is very similar from track to track.
0,15 degrees toe out per side front helped turn in (my car anyway), any more will just eat tires and do nothing (on my car)
Camber front depends so much on what tire you run, been doing -3.5 with r888s and its WAY to liberal, i'd go 5 if i could, last tires i went through was only down max 1mm from new on the inside and wasted on the outside, same with rear to an extent, i ran -3 and would like to test -3.5, not that i will every buy r888s again.
Camber front depends so much on what tire you run, been doing -3.5 with r888s and its WAY to liberal, i'd go 5 if i could, last tires i went through was only down max 1mm from new on the inside and wasted on the outside, same with rear to an extent, i ran -3 and would like to test -3.5, not that i will every buy r888s again.
Uwe, my car is a full time track car (so no road driving). I would not set my road car for so much toe out.
Dave, Front toe in makes the car dart towards to corner on turn in, unsettling the car as it cannot "set" first. Rear toe in is good for straight line stability.
Dave, Front toe in makes the car dart towards to corner on turn in, unsettling the car as it cannot "set" first. Rear toe in is good for straight line stability.
Cheers,
Michael.
Have found that a bit of front toe out gives the car a little more 'turn in'. On a really high speed circuit without low/medium speed corners, you'd probably run 0mm (i.e. straight) to maximise straight line speed and minimise scrub.
We run between 0 and 2mm TOTAL toe out, would not consider running more. Toe in makes a nice stable road car, and a recipe for understeer just when you needed more grip.
We run between 0 and 2mm TOTAL toe out, would not consider running more. Toe in makes a nice stable road car, and a recipe for understeer just when you needed more grip.
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Still are you sure you run 2degrees toe-out, not 2mm? Because that is extreme.MillRat wrote:Uwe, my car is a full time track car (so no road driving). I would not set my road car for so much toe out.
Dave, Front toe in makes the car dart towards to corner on turn in, unsettling the car as it cannot "set" first. Rear toe in is good for straight line stability.
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Jhonno
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My e30 with an S50 up front used to love being dead ahead on the front.. It got set up by a tyre place with toe in and it was fecking horrid. So I changed it myself till I liked it.
Used to run very little toe in on the rear as well.
Used to run very little toe in on the rear as well.
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steve_k
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i might get flamed for this but if you are fitting your car with fully adjustable suspention components (sp?) then just set it as normal then when you take it on it's first track day then you can choose which set up is right for you.
all the above are the poster's own personal set up's & might not work for you so like i said just take the car on it's first track day & go from there regarding set up.
just because it works for someone else don't mean it will work or be right for you.
all the above are the poster's own personal set up's & might not work for you so like i said just take the car on it's first track day & go from there regarding set up.
just because it works for someone else don't mean it will work or be right for you.
if it's got t*ts or wheels it's bound to be trouble...............prove me wrong.
getting oral sex off an ugly person is like rock climbing.....don't look down ;)
getting oral sex off an ugly person is like rock climbing.....don't look down ;)
fully agree. some people are able to drive extremly well with the strangest of settings. That my includes me as wellsteve_k wrote:i might get flamed for this but if you are fitting your car with fully adjustable suspention components (sp?) then just set it as normal then when you take it on it's first track day then you can choose which set up is right for you.
all the above are the poster's own personal set up's & might not work for you so like i said just take the car on it's first track day & go from there regarding set up.
just because it works for someone else don't mean it will work or be right for you.
Sorry, yes 2mm (my bad).timmy1701 wrote:Still are you sure you run 2degrees toe-out, not 2mm? Because that is extreme.MillRat wrote:Uwe, my car is a full time track car (so no road driving). I would not set my road car for so much toe out.
Dave, Front toe in makes the car dart towards to corner on turn in, unsettling the car as it cannot "set" first. Rear toe in is good for straight line stability.
Cheers,
Michael.