New Old Cars

[Royalratch]

In most industries, a classic product is often 'reissued' either as a faithful replica or an update of a great classic and it's usually very successful in business terms. Sneakers is one area where this is very popular, electrical appliances another. Doesn't happen with cars - I'm not talking about the Ford GT40's or Fiat 500 or Mini 'rebirths' either.

Got me thinking, imagine if BMW were to make a limited run of say, 1000 E30s, available new from your dealer. Which model would/should it be and how much could they charge? Would there be any demand - most BMW showroom customers won't be into the E30 as much as newer cars. Or would they.

I think they would sell out in seconds. The E30 to reissue should probably be a nice regular 2 Door 325i. Limited run of brand new M20s to suit or modern engine range? What to keep and what to update? Airbags would mean ugly steering wheels. E30 iDrive?

[skipunda]

Interesting thread. You'd surely have to satisfy all the modern safety standards, let alone emissions and anything related. But in concept they would sell well I think.

[beemerbird]

I don't want to spark off the age-old debate but, Ratch, I'm intrigued to know why you suggest the 325i and not the 318is.

[hazd31]

SUrely an m3 or cabby would be the logical choice? Maybe even m3 cabbys.....

Or something that never was like a 327?

[darkchild]

4 door 320i auto.

In Gazelle Beige.

[skipunda]

Sorry, we are naming cars? Ok it would have to be a 323 chromie in bronzit or something like that. None of this mtech nonsense.

[Royalratch]

The safety thing could be gotten round. Hide all the pre-tensioner stuff easily, side airbags instead of 16x9's in the doors lol!

Wonder if they'd have to change any sheet metal to deal with crash tests etc.

I went for the 325i because its the classic E30 in engine choice, body type etc - didn't say it was the best . Although a modern 335i or 330d would work and still be lighter than an M20 - but again, this is a reissue not a 'remake' or 're-imagination'.

So the M20 should stay but with modern tweaks...

There is an aftermarket motorcycle engine handmade in the USA that is an exact replica of a vintage 50s/60s Harley V-Twin - but on the inside it's full on 21st Century fuel injected twin cam tech - $100,000 delivered.

[Royalratch]

4 door 320i auto.

In Gazelle Beige.

Sorry, we are naming cars? Ok it would have to be a 323 chromie in bronzit or something like that. None of this mtech nonsense.

This is very telling - when it comes down to it, mint immaculate simple E30s are the best of all. Even more so than any MTEC or Sport garishness. If it's all about capturing that era, it must be a Bronzit!

How cool would it look, sat in a BMW dealer next to a new Gold/Bronze F60 5-Series...

[e30kev]

it would be very interesting, i think most people given how much they would cost these days would want an m3

personally i'd like an m3 touring

other models like an e28 m5, m635i, M1 would be in demand too and could you imagine how insane they could make a 2002 go with modern witchcraft

[pnd]

nice idea and they would sell assuming limited production didn't put costs into the statosphere, that and the aforementioned emissions and safety are probably why no ones done it. After all in marketing terms its hardly a new idea.

[Royalratch]

But it's never been done in this way. Imagine Ford suddenly said we're making 500 RS200s for hardcore fans?

I think they could charge £40G for the ultimate piece of 80's cool.

But what would it cost to manufacture these days? Would probably need to be assembled entirely by hand. So the end price would be nearer £80G - for a Bronze E30 325i with no rear blind shelf or fancy OBC!

[pnd]

But what would it cost to manufacture these days? Would probably need to be assembled entirely by hand. So the end price would be nearer £80G - for a Bronze E30 325i with no rear blind shelf or fancy OBC! [/quote]

where do I sign!

[Royalratch]

L0L!

[rh306]

BMW made a 2002tii out of new parts a few years back




..I read somewhere that BMW Classic's restoration service was open to the public now (I think they've delivered a restored E9 to their first customer recently?)

Mercedes come closest to the new old idea, with their "Mercedes Young Classics" scheme

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/cla ... s-new.html

[bigchris555]

bmw are restoring old cars they recently finished an old 3.0csl and it came out like new!! it was on pistonheads

[Royalratch]

How much for???

[rh306]

bmw are restoring old cars they recently finished an old 3.0csl and it came out like new!! it was on pistonheads

taking delivery

[steve_k]

well this is a very interesting thread you've started ratch & one that could run a very long time indeed.

the only problem is as has been said before which model?
there are so many to choose from & it could take from now till the end of time to decide on which model to go for (not just the E30).

the only possible way for bmw (if they ever decided to go down such a route) would be to have an open public vote which would be on such a massive scale.

although i do see your point but like you say "which model?" i for one would love to be able to buy an upto date e28 m5 if ever they did this.

who know's we'll just have to wait & see.

[e30mtec]

if ever possible i think they should remake the moredoor 318i , the 2door 318is leave the 320i in the parts bin and do a 4 door ,2 door ,and touring 325i,full options list available to all...keep the m3 e30 in the history books ,would definately interest me in buying a "new" e30 just to see what they drove like as new..would be interesting

[johnt0709]

Ratch - Interesting thread as usual.

I love my E30 and E30s in general, but for me what rings my bell is that they were constructed in the late 80s/90s - you cant replicate that. You do get the odd whiff of petrol and drip of oil, it doesnt have airbags and it has a tape deck.

The E30 is greater that the sum of it parts and for me less is more - I wouldn't pay £40k for one - I would have a sterile 335 every time.

Dont know if i'm making much sense.

Heres the link to the restoration

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=410338

[johnt0709]

Should have added I would take the restoration option as its still an authentic 80s car

[Royalratch]

Yeh that resto is also in HD on YouTube.

I work in Advertising / Marketing. What a great idea it would be to pitch to BMW.

You hold a global worldwide vote from all BMW fans on which model from BMWs history to reissue as 500 specials available in dealers.

I'd limit the selection otherwise nothing would get done.

E30 Bronzite Chromie 325i.
E30 Laser Mettalic Blue 318i Touring.
E30 Silver 325i Cabrio Auto.

Non E30's.

Black 635CSi.
Grey E28 Sport of some kind.

[rh306]

As they'd presumably be hand built, can't imagine them costing less than 50-60,000 Euros.. Wouldn't be many people out there who would take a new E30 over say a 993

[Royalratch]

A good question! But I bet there would be tons who would take a brand new 316i Bronzit over a mint 993 Turbo. Fanaticism is a strange animal...

[oldroydsr4]

They would have to be hand built as the manufacturing plants wouldnt be able to deal with a run of 1000 random 25 year e30s due to the complexity in the build process, add to this the potential for new tooling for shells and other obsolete parts and you end up with a very expensive car.

I don't think emissions will be a big issue as manufactures have to get an average CO2 across the whole range so a run of 1000 cars shouldn't massively effect that.

Safety will be the Biggest issue with pedestrian impacts that prevent 'hard' points in certain areas.

All in all it would be feasible but at a cost.

On that note -
I'll have a rhd non sunroof 320is with leather highback recaros please.

[bss325i]

I dont think the safey thing would be an issue on such a limited run of cars.

Things like TVR's and Arial atoms dont have airbags or pedestrian safety bonets etc.

Also most if not all of the tooling will still be around and BMW have the facilities for small scale production, all E34 M5's were hand built for example as are the E92 M3 GTS's.

It wouldnt be as impossible as some may think but the closest they will get to it is complete resto's by their mobile tradition section, just like the E9 CSi.

[HairyScreech]

the best way to do it is make a small company registered as a low volume car producer, put one e30 through iva and use that as the type approval (this is what caterham etc do) then buy m3 shells from bmw and build them to spec.

this could be done with any car that enough new bits are available for to build complete, and to a certain extent is done.

as for which cars, well as long as you can get a shell and a rmfd engine then you can have it.

if your hand assembling them to order then its just a tick in a box and a different number for an m3 shell or a touring shell.

[Blitz]

I'm sure Alpina could do it.

[Morat]

I think the only feasible way to achieve it would be to restore existing cars at the factory. Anything with a new chassis number is going to need to meet modern regs for emissions, pedestrian safety and all the other bollocks. A restoration that keeps the original vin is the best option.

[Felix79]

Would be intresting to see the M3 done with a modern twist and for BMW to produce enough so it qualifes to do the DTM or BTCC. With the cars being so much lighter than modern cars and with the power of modern engines and the effcianty you would be onto a winner. Also while they are at it they could put the bloody steering wheel on the right side!

[Kos]

the best way to do it is make a small company registered as a low volume car producer, put one e30 through iva and use that as the type approval (this is what caterham etc do) then buy m3 shells from bmw and build them

e30 shells are not available but a few new ones are about

in theory its a good idea but is it a workable one ? it would have to be done at a non profit level to keep the cost reasonable. its would probably be loss but BMW do things for love at times

[TouringTash]

bmw are restoring old cars they recently finished an old 3.0csl and it came out like new!! it was on pistonheads

taking delivery

I commented on one of the other so called photographs, the one with the car going down the ramp and this one looks just as false to me, I have nothing to base this on apart from my eye.

As for model
touring iS 2.0 4cyl, 16" BBS's, and only mudflaps hanging from the body anything else would be a travesty.

[HairyScreech]

oh the photos are obviously staged, he probably picked the car up from there as the first customer, and they had him come back/ wait on the day and do some staged press photos.
thats just standard practice.

kos. i was basing it on the shells being reissued when mobile tradition get there greasy mits on them.
the vintage stuff we do is practically money no object at times, theres people out there with enough love that they will spend the cash.

what do we recon it would cost to assemble your own m3? £30k in parts? plus what another £15k labour to build, adding another £5k profit. still makes for a sub £60k brand new e30 m3.
(i dont know the figures they just came off the top of my head.)

[Royalratch]

I'd love to know what it would cost to assemble a car in parts from scratch.

If it's only £50K for a 100% brand new M3 - surely that's a bargain - if it's correct.

I'd rather do that than a 'new' 80's M3 like the infamous Sport Evo twin find that cost...?

[poolnoodle]

Sorry, we are naming cars? Ok it would have to be a 323 chromie in bronzit or something like that. None of this mtech nonsense.

Right on brother, where do line up for another one