Cage build

[freddiet123]

Hi

If you remove all the sun roof kit and use the outer skin off the panel you save 9kg
just done that on a shell we are preping

Sad fact !!!!!!!

Graham
Ark Automotive

[Driftben]

Well at the present I have used 4 bolts on each side of the sunroof panel but I'll take them out and pop acouple of welds in there and maybe some rivets. The black lining round the sunroof, did you guys remove it and just mastic around the gap if that makes sense?
The worst thing is where the 2 rear drain pipes go from the sunroof tray to the boot, mine must have been leaking for years.

[UweM3]

Well at the present I have used 4 bolts on each side of the sunroof panel but I'll take them out and pop acouple of welds in there and maybe some rivets. The black lining round the sunroof, did you guys remove it and just mastic around the gap if that makes sense?
The worst thing is where the 2 rear drain pipes go from the sunroof tray to the boot, mine must have been leaking for years.

bend the remaining flange on the roof skin towards the "hole" (to make it smaller)
bend the remaining flange of the single skin sunroof a little outwards (to make it bigger)

insert single skin suroof panel in roof skin hole, the two flanges are now closer together from the bending. Now weld fron the outside into the gap, just 5mm long weld per spot.
Weld a spot, leave 100mm gap. Weld another spot, leave 100mm gap till you have welded all round.
Apply a little bit of mastic in the gap but leave enough room to put a proper bead in AFTER the car is sprayed. Makes it looking much nicers IMHO than spraying OVER the mastic

I then trimmed the inside flange a little bit to remove sharp edges and make it look a bit neater

Of course any trimming, cutting or sanding with an angle grinder INSIDE the car is with all screens removed......

[Driftben]

wicked bit of info there thanks
well i managed to get the sunroof panel back out tonight and pry the inner skin off and what a arse that was.......
i managed to do it without buggering the outer layer which was a right bonus.

as for the grinding with the windows in well i took all the windows out except the front. for some reason i thought it was indestructible......... apparently not so its pitted like the moon

[MillRat]

Of course any trimming, cutting or sanding with an angle grinder INSIDE the car is with all screens removed......

I also found out why the hard way

[UweM3]

as for the grinding with the windows in well i took all the windows out except the front. for some reason i thought it was indestructible......... apparently not so its pitted like the moon :pee pee:

LoooL, that made me chuckle.

You can cover it up as much as you like, there are always some sparks finding their way.

I was cutting a few sheets with the cutting disk strapped to my trailer in front of the house and now have some nice brown patterns on the Glas front door. My wife was asking me if I had noticed these brown dots on the glas...."don't know what you are talking about darling, do you want me to go shopping with you?....." LooL

[Driftben]

haha the shopping trick always is a full proof "get out of the dog house" plan. im saving that one until i do something really bad.

well i got abit more done tonight... i welded the tops of the cage so now i can get the feet fixed down.
also removed all the sound deading and iv popped it into a bag so i can weigh it....

[GeoffBob]

for some reason i thought it was indestructible......... apparently not so its pitted like the moon

Now you have an excuse to replace your front screen with a sheet of polycarbonate (assuming this is a track car only?). A sheet of Llumar film over the polycarb (before fitting) will make it reasonably impervious to those annoying dust scratches and wiper marks that polycarb screens always pick up.

Remember, it's not only about how much weight you remove, its about how high up on the car that weight comes from. 9kg from the roof is worth more than 9kg from say mid way up the car. This is due to the fact that it is the location (distribution) of your cars weight that defines the position of its centre of gravity (COG) which you want to get as low as possible. Replacing all your glass with polycarb not only reduces the cars overall weight (thus improving acceleration) but will lower your cars COG markedly (since glass is both heavy and located high up) thus reducing roll while cornering.

Just advice BTW, I don't sell any of the above, but I did fit polycarb windows all round on my own car.

[Driftben]

Well I have a set of polycarb rear and side windows but i wasn't sure if I was allowed a polycarb front screen? Ya it's going to be a sole track car so that sounds like a way forward because the front screen weighs quite abit.

On a lighter note (had to put that in there ) my seat come today so I'll pop a picture up of that.

[UweM3]

if I ever need a new front screen I am going to fit a HEATED one! Going round Brands Hatch in November rain, you will appreciate a clear view.

For the sake of a few kilo's (and even if they are high up) I would not sacrifice a clear view out of the front. Imagine how the front screen looks on a sunny afternoon with the sun coming in low after cleaning the INSIDE for a whole year and covering it with tiny scratches.

[ross_jsy]

Are poly screens allowed under blue book regs though?

Mine looks like it's had the 12 guage shotgun treatment.

[GeoffBob]

A sheet of Llumar film over the polycarb (before fitting) will make it reasonably impervious to those annoying dust scratches and wiper marks that polycarb screens always pick up

If you don't apply the Llumar film (or similar scratch resistant product) a ploycarb windscreen isn't worth the trouble. For more info on Llumar window films, click here.

Imagine how the front screen looks on a sunny afternoon with the sun coming in low after cleaning the INSIDE for a whole year and covering it with tiny scratches.

No serious-minded driver would keep a polycarb windscreen in for that long Uwe. A sheet of 5mm PC1000 polycarb is a fraction of the cost of a new laminated glass windscreen and is thus treated as a maintenance item. Polycarb also has a yield strength roughly 200 times greater than glass (iirc) and thus offers a significant safety advantage.

Your point with regard to heating the screen is of course perfectly valid. But then it's hardly my fault your weather is so abominable Down here I am more concerned with spontaneously combusting inside my race suit.

[UweM3]

Your point with regard to heating the screen is of course perfectly valid. But then it's hardly my fault your weather is so abominable Down here I am more concerned with spontaneously combusting inside my race suit.

LoooooL! yeah, weather here is demanding sometimes

just out of curiosity, how would i fit a STRAIGHT 5mm poly sheet into the curved aperture of the E30 shell?

[Driftben]

Your point with regard to heating the screen is of course perfectly valid. But then it's hardly my fault your weather is so abominable Down here I am more concerned with spontaneously combusting inside my race suit.

LoooooL! yeah, weather here is demanding sometimes

just out of curiosity, how would i fit a STRAIGHT 5mm poly sheet into the curved aperture of the E30 shell?

That's exactly what I was wondering.
I tried to black out the back of my van window and that had a curve in it. Well let's just say its still see through and I have a scrap bit of window tint.
Must be impossible with something so rigid.

[GeoffBob]

Just out of curiosity, how would i fit a STRAIGHT 5mm poly sheet into the curved aperture of the E30 shell?

Probably the same way I did. I simply put it in and it keeps its shape due to the seal around it. Many of my colleagues at Silvercup don’t bother with the seal and simply rivot the polycarb to the edge of the frame. When it’s time for a new one they drill out the rivots and in goes the new one. I find this to be quite unsightly though and have stuck with my rubber seal. Not to mention it helps keep the rain out (if it ever does).

Polycarb is highly elastic and thus fairly easy to fit into a curved frame. You' be surprised as to how easy it is to fit. Any frame, however, that demands a serious curvature (the wrap-around screens used on the sixties yank-tanks for example) will require that the polycarb be cold-rolled. Hot roling or the liberal application of a heat gun often results in small but unsightly bubbles forming on the surface of the polycarb (I learned all of this the hard way. Cold rolling a 6mm sheet is a thankless task and turns out to be unnecessary).

As a general rule, 6mm polycarb is quite demanding to fit, 4mm is dead easy (but a touch on the thin side for my liking). 5mm is a good compromise and that's what I'll be sticking with (my first attempt was at a 6mm screen and I found it very difficult to work with). It takes me about 5 minutes to pull my screen out, and about ten to put it back, which I do on a regular basis since this makes working on my dash and instruments so much easier for me. The Llumar film is easy to apply while its lying flat on the kitchen table, or you can do it after the screen is fitted. Interestingly, due to the elasticity of the polycarb, it relaxes straight back into the flat state after it has been pulled.

Must be impossible with something so rigid.

Polycarb is highly elastic, and not at all rigid. There is, however, almost zero hysteresis to the stress/strain graph, and polycarb is thus extremely difficult to permanently deform.

Not trying to be funny, but are you sure you didn't try with a sheet of perspex? So long as the curvature isn't excessive, it's fairly easy to force the polycarb to follow the curvature of the frame. If the curve is excessive then a thinner sheet is usually the answer.

But don’t get me wrong, I am by no means advocating polycarb as the be-all and end-all of screens. I purely suggested it as an alternative (something you might like to try) if your glass needs replacing. If you are a die-hard fan of laminated glass then by all means ignore what I have to say. Down here polycarb screens are allowed by MSA (Perspex is strictly verboten!!) so I simply thought I would give it a try.

[Driftben]

well i managed to crack on with the rear half of the cage the other night.
its only tacked at the mo but i shall finish it off hofully friday.... maybe even get to put the front strut tubing in and the door bars.

[nickso]

are you putting a double diagnonal in? if so watch you dont weld your mig into the back seat.

[Driftben]

haha good shout, no im sticking with a single.
iv already been taken the piss out of from my mates thinking they had the one up on me by telling me iv welded my mig in.
did make me think though.....

[nickso]

i have done stupid things like that at work, put a boiler back together only to find i can't get the last bit in etc etc.

looks good though, wish i could afford a decent cage for mine.

[Driftben]

regarding the boiler, i have put spurs too close to the door of the boiler before and cant terminate it properly. i blame it on small boiler cupboards
well the only reason i can afford that cage is because im fitting it myself. its about a grand to get it fitted..

[crossie]

Left hand drive or have you got the diagnonal in the wrong way round?

All the extra strenght should be above the drivers head

[Driftben]

Err it's right hand drive. You, know I did wonder that? Iv only gone by what it shows on the diagram? I'll have a read up on it before I completely weld it up.

Cheers mate.

Ben

[crossie]

Reason Uwe's is the other way is due to the fact his is left handed!

[Driftben]

I do see what you are saying but I asked custom cages to send me some pictures of a right handed E30 and they have the roof diagonal that way as well as the hoop diagonal?

[Driftben]

well i have finally finished the cage.... well its all in place and tacked anyway.
the front triangulation to the front struts wasnt as hard as i thought though.

i have a few pictures but none of the finished front struts...






before i sanded the front strut tower i was wondering what this meant if anyone knows?


and finally one with my seat in there which i had to pass through the front window

[MillRat]

It is the paint colour - Alpine White II.

If you want to repaint it, quote that colour name, and your paint can be correctly matched.

[Jim78]

Err it's right hand drive. You, know I did wonder that? Iv only gone by what it shows on the diagram? I'll have a read up on it before I completely weld it up.

Cheers mate.

Ben

Still got time to convert it to LHD!!!

[Driftben]

lovely cheers millrat that puts my mind at rest...

jim im past that point mate, i have already adjusted my wing mirrors for right hand drive

[crossie]

Hows it going you all welded up yet?

[Driftben]

It's all tacked in place and hopefully if all goes well tonight it shall be welded and finished ready for a good old spray.
I need to change a wishbone on my rangerover tonight as well so it's a busy night. E30 comes first though

Ill update the pictures tomorrow.

[UweM3]

Reason Uwe's is the other way is due to the fact his is left handed!

I discussed this with Matt form ETA (who did most of my cage, thanks) many many times. Even DTM LHD drives cars had the diagonal the "wrong" way round (high end NOT on the driver side).
After a few long nights talking we decided that in our opinion it is the better way to have the triangle to support the room over the driver in the event of a roll over.
Hope we never find out that we might be wrong......

[Driftben]

well that puts my mind at rest..... cheers UweM3
i didnt get to finish welding in the rest of the cage but i have broke the back of it, everything is in place and all i need now is time and patients plus my M62 arrives soon so need to get my arse moving.
pictures to follow once i have completed the welding

[crossie]

you got this all finished yet??

[Driftben]

Yep I have it all finish now with some minor adjustments. I put it all to bed for winter so I'll take some pictures and make abit of a portfolio when I can.