E30 318IS Flywheel & Clutch Upgrage

[no1_jazz]

Hi there zoners,

Yet another pickle lol I am in need of a new clutch kit and flywheel for my E30 31.8IS 1990 H reg it finally gave up the ghost at a 175k.

Need a bit of advice guys, I have heard that the E30 325i clutch and flywheel is lighter and better for my car as it gives it a better off the line take off, however need a bit of direction please, do I go for the upgrade?

If so what would you guys recommend?

All help and advice is much appreciated
Jazz

[no1_jazz]

bump

[alync205]

The M20 flywheel can be fitted but does'nt fit straight on some metal has to machined from the back of it to give clearance.You need a M20 starter pinion fitted to the M42 starter too.I think you need a 323i release bearing also.I don't think there is that much difference in weight unless you get the flywheel lightened as the clutch is bigger.

[Alex]

Magpie said to me yesterday my car didnt have as much go as his with an m20 flywheel kit Didnt get the the redline fast enough

i would like one of these

http://store.nexternal.com/vacmotors/jb ... p1533.aspx

lot of money like, not sure on exchange rates around £400 ??

you could probably get one made lighter for less??? Ive not really looked into it but would quite like a few extra little mods before santa pod this year

[no1_jazz]

Guys still after a better than oem clutch kit and flywheel.

Tempted to get a lightened flywheel the one on the link above looks nice but the price of 480 pounds puts me off.

Would it be wise to get a standard clutch and flywheel from euro car parts and get the flywheel itself lightened and balanced professionally.

I am in no rush at al as the car is off road chilling lol, I would like to improve acceleration just for them one off santapod days and the once in a blue moon of the lights in town driving lol.
Any thoughts

All help is much appreciated
Regards
jazz

[rix313]

4.5kg is a little extreme for a road car it wouldn't be much fun to balance the clutch on a hill with that!

Fly wheels are pretty hardly I would suspect the one that's on the car is still usable unless something drastic has happened to it?

[no1_jazz]

Fly wheels are pretty hardly I would suspect the one that's on the car is still usable unless something drastic has happened to it?

ring gear has come off the flywheel.

[no1_jazz]

any 1 ?

[no1_jazz]

...

[Brian28]

The 325i clutch/pressure plate is a lot heavier than an M42 one, so you are putting a lot of weight that you have saved from the flywheel swap back on again. Easiest upgrade with least faffing is to get a standard M42 flywheel skimmed down. A lot of 'net stuff about the benefits of the 325i swap is because the M42 sometimes has a dual mass flywheel which weighs a ton, but few UK cars (in fact no UK car that I've seen) has had a dual mass flywheel, just the standard 4 pot one same as fitted to the M40s. Have a look at the thread from Rix in engine swaps section and read through until you find a photo of the lightened flywheel. Print it off and take it to your local engineering workshop to copy. Mine is identical to that, in fact probably more taken off if anything, and works fine on a road car that I also race. (Or vice versa ) But a good compromise would be to leave the "walls" in place (will make sense when you look at your flywheel/Rix photo) but get the circumferance turned down to lighten it.
Cheers
Brian

[rix313]

ring gear has come off the flywheel.

That falls into the drastic category

PM me your email address and I'll send you some photo's of my flywheel.

[no1_jazz]

That falls into the drastic category

PM me your email address and I'll send you some photo's of my flywheel.

pm sent

[Dave_M3]

I had an M20 lightened flywheel on my iS that was brought down to 5.9kg when I put the M3 Evo box on.

Obviously, it pulled faster because of the gearbox but it reved far more freely and heel and toeing was even nicer than it was before.


I then had to use an E46 M3 flywheel, clutch and pressure plate with the S54 gearbox however which nearly brought me to tears when the whole assembly was nearly double the weight of the M20 kit.

Will probably get a billet M50 flywheel for the next time and when I sort out a clutch to suit the box.

[Gyptian]

S54 box connects to the M42?
How?

[Dave_M3]

S54 box connects to the M42?
How?

By 9 bolts

[Gyptian]

S54 box connects to the M42?
How?

By 9 bolts

I thought the box would be much different.

I heard with lightened flywheels on downshit if you dont sorta heel and toe it that the rear wheels can lockup but this is only on really light ones

[Dave_M3]

Bellhousing bolt patterns on any M40, M42, M43, M44, M50, M52, M54, S50, S52, S54 etc are all the same.

To fit the S50 or S54 6 speed box, there's alittle tinkering with the gear-linkages and propshaft and in the case of the S54 box, abit of messing with getting a clutch and flywheel combination to suit.


In terms of wheels locking up with lightened flywheels, it can when they are very light but its only really when your really pressing on or down-shifting entering a corner over a crest etc.

But... firstly, heel and toeing in an E30 is the easiest thing in the world to do. I do it all the time be it pressing on on my favorite road or even just around town.

Secondly, a lightened M20 flywheel on the iS from using mine isn't really enough to cause a whole lot of shiftock unless its intentional and I'd be pretty sure even a 4.5 or 3.5kg one wouldn't be too bad either considering its only a small 4pot. Different story with an S50 or M30/S38 etc as when the engine slows down in those off throttle, its going to take a good deal of effort to spin them back up again.

[no1_jazz]

Guys I know it’s been a while and yet to my lack of socialising time I have not had much opportunity to go out my way and actually buy a flywheel yet, work is manic and trying to find time out is ultra hard. However I am grateful for all the help and advice given.

Dave_M3 about your flywheel ”“ so getting the lightened M20 flywheel sounds the way forward along with the M20 Starter.... is there anything else I need to get to complete this set up...? Or are they the only 2 parts I am in need to complete this?

To what weight (kg) did you get your M20 Flywheel lightened down to?
And most importantly do you recommend me to go to the same person you did if you didn’t do it yourself?

Regards
Jazz

[Dave_M3]

I used a 5.9 lightened M20 flywheel, Sachs 325i clutch kit, 323i release bearing and an M20 starter.

These were all used with an E36 M3 Evo gearbox as I broke my iS box but if I was staying 5 speed, the parts would have been exactly the same.


I'm in Ireland so places to get the flywheel done wouldn't really be the same
Hongkongfuey on here sells (or at least used to sell them last year) good quality lightenend M20 flywheels.

Or, alternatively, you could buy a M20/M42/50/52 one from Richard at BBB on here which are lighter again and billet. They are about 260 quid I think but the quality of them is unbelievable.

I'll probably be getting one of them the next time I pull the gearbox off my car.

[no1_jazz]

Dave M3 thanks for the info bud.

Rite then to the zoners based in London or in and around London help is needed to find a reliable source, company or person to get the following parts from:

A 5.9 lightened M20 flywheel, Sachs 325i clutch kit, 323i release bearing and an M20 starter.

These are the parts needed again if there are any other flywheel recommendations for this particular engine m42 1.8iS feel free to note them down.

JB Racing they are an American company who deal with upgraded parts clutches and performance flywheels. The problem is they are based in the states and however do have a UK site but finding information about them is again ultra hard.

Has anybody had any experience with them good /bad?
Regards
Jazz

[town325i]

S54 box connects to the M42?
How?

By 9 bolts

I thought the box would be much different.

I heard with lightened flywheels on downshit if you dont sorta heel and toe it that the rear wheels can lockup but this is only on really light ones

If you down shift hard in any rear wheel drive car you can lock the rear wheels up! i have in a 318i easy

[Dave_M3]

I know somebody with a JB flywheel. It was Kedge's old car here on tw zone.


I wouldn't bothered about shift lock in an E30 as they are the easiest cars in the world to heel and toe.

[no1_jazz]

The only heel and toe pedal to the metal will be done on a 1 of santa pod run other than that I have no pennies to keep topping up the old boy with fuel lol especially as the prices are extortionate and yet only just to get worse.

About the JB flywheel any stats on that then effectiveness, price, where and whom to go to for it ?

[Dave_M3]

I heel and toe even when I'm just puttering around town at times. Just second nature really.

I'd go for Big Bavarian beauties fly before the JB one.

[no1_jazz]

Dave_M3 BIG BAVARIAN were do i go to look for some of these bad bois then lol

[no1_jazz]

guys would it be worth getting the standard m42 flywheel and lighten that that way it saves from changing other parts

[Dave_M3]

Yeah but it's nice to have the stronger clutch while your at it:)

[aj_mckay]

Hey guys, just had a read through this as I'm looking at having a lightened flywheel in my e36 318is due to the clutch giving up the ghost.

Couple of questions:

1) Why are people swapping to an M20 flywheels if it's possible to machine the existing flywheel to be lighter? Is it because some flywheels are dual-mass and therefore can't be machined?
2) How would I find out if my car has a dual-mass flywheel? (It's a 1999 e36 318is with the M44 engine and aircon).

As far as I can make out, if I were to use an M20 flywheel, I'd need the following:
- An M20 flywheel - machined down to make it lighter and stop it catching
- An M20 starter motor (does this bold onto the M44?)
- An M20 325 clutch kit
- A different clutch release bearing - which?

I have also seen mention of having to cut some studs down on the flywheel - is this necessary here?

Basically, I'm liking the idea of a lighter flywheel and am trying to figure out the best/easiest/cheapest way of getting one in my car. Can i go down the route of machining the existing flywheel? If not, is the list of stuff relating to the M20 conversion above correct? Are there any other things I need to consider? I'd have to get a garage to do the work for me - is this a realistic request and is it likely to cost me a fortune in labour charges?

Thanks in advance...

[MrWhite]

I had my M42 flywheel machined down from 9.3kg to 7.4kg (about 20%). Replaced the clutch while I was at it, massive improvement. I looked at the M20 fly option but it seemed like too much p*ssing around to gather all the correct bits. The bigger clutch is only really a worthwhile improvement if you've got more power output to play with. It is only an M42 at the end of the day.

[aj_mckay]

So are all the M42/M44 flywheels able to be machined down then? I thought the dual mass ones couldn't be? Not sure how to find out if mine is machine-able!

What are the benefits of going down the M20 route if you can lighten the existing flywheel on the M42/M44?

[Brianmoooore]

The problem with machining down a M40 flywheel is that the bit you need to remove is where the cover plate bolts to.
The only place for any dual mass flywheel is in the scrap pile. Destroy on sight.

[Dave_M3]

The E36 will have a dualmass flywheel. M20 flywheel, M20 starter and E21323 release bearing is what you need with a M20 clutch and pressure plate. You'll also need to buy a set of M42 single mass flywheel bolts as your Dualmass ones will be too long.

The single mass M40 or M42 flywheels can be machined by you can get more off an M20 flywheel and not just that but all the weight of an M40 flywheel is around the perimeter which puts you at a disadvantage from the start if your looking to reduce rotatatinal mass.

The problem with machining down a M40 flywheel is that the bit you need to remove is where the cover plate bolts to.
The only place for any dual mass flywheel is in the scrap pile. Destroy on sight.

Too right!

[MrWhite]

The material removed from my M40/42 flywheel was from the outer perimeter and nowhere else. IIRC the machine shop managed to get around 15mm off the diameter over most of the depth with a nice big fillet where it joins the starter gear. I've got a photo somewhere but I used a pic supplied by rix313 for a guide, although I didn't have the segments cut out.

[Dave_M3]

Either way it's still 2kg heavier than what an M20 flywheel can be brought down to

I prefer the idea of having the M20 clutch anyway considering I have more power than a 320 and only abit less than a 325.

[-Jelko-]

I will ask stupid question,but is it possible to put m20 flywheel on m40?I have clutch,flywheel,throw out bearing from 323i e21,will buy starter pionion,what else do i have to do or buy?