Help the zone get back on form (old skoolers only)

[mrLEE30]

even better the second page is degrading in to pointless rubbish, can we make it a third or shall i just lock it.

[Andyboy]

This place has got a clique going, if a zoner posts something in that clique then it rolls on and on but if a newbie posts something of the same it gets swept away with a few posts.

I've been here nearly 5 yrs and my post count is low, the reason behind that is because I've got nothing to constructive to say.

I posted my sport restoration last year and it got little replies and I honestly thought - why should I bother to post.

I followed it on BMW Car Forum - very good it was too!

[bmwsport]

+1

I've also noticed it's mostly the well known regular members that give most of the abuse on here and they are always being overlooked by the mods! You know the ones who actually do most of the slating with the 'this car is scrap', 'council' etc comments and when a newb retaliates they are the ones who end up getting being told off/banned

Corrupt justice if you ask me, it's like the mods aka teachers have favorite pupils on here...

[Jhonno]

This place has got a clique going, if a zoner posts something in that clique then it rolls on and on but if a newbie posts something of the same it gets swept away with a few posts.

I've been here nearly 5 yrs and my post count is low, the reason behind that is because I've got nothing to constructive to say.

I posted my sport restoration last year and it got little replies and I honestly thought - why should I bother to post.

I followed it on BMW Car Forum - very good it was too!

I followed it on here! Not sure I posted though..

[Nay]

This place has got a clique going, if a zoner posts something in that clique then it rolls on and on but if a newbie posts something of the same it gets swept away with a few posts.

I would've said that might have something to do with the fact most of them know each other...

Almost every thread I've posted myself has been inflicted by the other regular Jersey lads I know. It happens.

Although its a shame to see someone say respray their sport, actually very nicely, and only get a few responses, of which a third are actually taking the piss out of one aspect of the car???

Finally, I do understand Jhonno's comment of how the endless repetative newbie questions do get somewhat tiresome. If I'm in the mood I'll help, otherwise I will just glance over them. During one of Steve's threads some time back I talked about a solution to deal with this, but it was thought unnecessary and now the problem still exists.
You just have to direct these people and their questions to a place where simple information is kept about all common things to try keep repetative questions away from the E30Chat, which is getting full of utter rubbish. A whats it worth thread mmay also help....

[mrLEE30]

Nay, we have this its called the Wiki and you may start a wiki page on whats it worth - as can anyone else

[Nay]

I'm all for the Wiki. Its full of useful stuff.

Its not going to help the situation though, as finding what you want/need doesn't happen unless someone points you to it (I must've spent 5 minutes trying to find the article about rebuilding an M20 cylinder head) and in general used for more documented stuff.

What I suggested was a thread (near the top of the forum menu) called FAQ or General info or whatever suits it. In here, have say a steering rack post where a knowledgable member will say as much about what needs to be said and then post and lock it. Every common newbie question we find, answer it in there. Hell, even use it to post to links found in the wiki on the subject matters.

I know about the wiki, but does every person who has just bought or buying an E30 and has discovered bodykits know about this? Is there an article in the wiki about fitting an E36/Z3 rack? Have many people noticed this?

Not making the wiki sound bad or anything, as it contains lots of good info, but it is a tadd inaccessible.

[Grrrmachine]

One thing that I'd like to see introduced is the stigma of not using the "search" button. On a few other fora (forums?) I use, the standard reply to newbie questions is "try the SEARCH button." They get it into their heads very quickly that a wealth of information is accessible with a few button clicks if they're prepared to work for it.

As for the slagging/banter: this place isn't wikipedia, it needs a bit of liveliness to keep it going. If you can't take a bit of internet banter, back away from the keyboard and go outside of a walk...

[polsta]

as a new member myself, id like to think ive not caused any arguments or beef with anyone, and found the forum a massive help, in fact i dont know where id be without this place , in finding,and working on my car, i know i may of posted some silly things with help for...but thats whata newbie to anything does, and id like to say a thank you to everyone concerned who has taken the time to help me, i also try to pass on any things ive leant where i can

maybe a general e30 chat, if people are moaning gets swamped, but also a new section "general newbie e30 help" could be a good idea ?

and maybe a section where any relevent decent threads, are all moved to a "complete maintenence guide" section, with then sub sections for 316/318/325 etc, then interior/exterior/styling, and engine sections for the cars, so things are easier to find, it sounds little comprehensive, but it could be good and very very helpful

also a section for buying guides, as thats always posted a lot..with a comprehensive guide for buying an e30, printable checklists, also with the various model specific things to look for

with old threads searched out to include,and any good worthy threads that pop up along the way, moved to the sections by mods, and further to allow the zone to grow and improve

[DaveD]

I'm all for the Wiki. Its full of useful stuff.

Its not going to help the situation though, as finding what you want/need doesn't happen unless someone points you to it (I must've spent 5 minutes trying to find the article about rebuilding an M20 cylinder head) and in general used for more documented stuff.

What I suggested was a thread (near the top of the forum menu) called FAQ or General info or whatever suits it. In here, have say a steering rack post where a knowledgable member will say as much about what needs to be said and then post and lock it. Every common newbie question we find, answer it in there. Hell, even use it to post to links found in the wiki on the subject matters.

t

I know about the wiki, but does every person who has just bought or buying an E30 and has discovered bodykits know about this? Is there an article in the wiki about fitting an E36/Z3 rack? Have many people noticed this?

Not making the wiki sound bad or anything, as it contains lots of good info, but it is a tadd inaccessible.

The problem is that even people who know can't be bothered to look ...I found this in about 30 seconds...if you want you can add to it ...why is it inaccessible ..there is avlink at the top of the page and an index...the trouble is a lot of people just can't be bothered

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/inde ... onversions

[Simon13]

+1

I've also noticed it's mostly the well known regular members that give most of the abuse on here and they are always being overlooked by the mods! You know the ones who actually do most of the slating with the 'this car is scrap', 'council' etc comments and when a newb retaliates they are the ones who end up getting being told off/banned

Corrupt justice if you ask me, it's like the mods aka teachers have favorite pupils on here...

thats because they're right, because they know something that the pictures aren't telling you 99% of the time.

Fact is the cars are getting less in numbers between the hardcore they have a large numbers of cars covered its up to other people to listen or not. You can't force people to believe you however

[Nay]

The problem is that even people who know can't be bothered to look ...I found this in about 30 seconds...if you want you can add to it ...why is it inaccessible ..there is avlink at the top of the page and an index...the trouble is a lot of people just can't be bothered

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/inde ... onversions

That has very little to do with newbie questions. As I stated earlier, more in depth, documented articles find their way in there and get used, such as that about making a stronger UJ setup.

Most 'noobs' (had to use it ) generally ask about what mods or things can be done to E30s. Not necessarily how to fit them, or whats involved etc, but what can I buy? or what is available? what improves what and so on.

A section, I reckon between 'New Members' and 'FAO' should be noob info. This will have things started by the zoners who know about the subject. Eg, Bodykits, and a description of each standard or tuner kit, what they are called and details that not all kits fit all cars and blah, blah blah. Another one for again, steering racks, saying E36, Z3 (1.9L), E46 330i Clubsport racks all fit. To fit them you'll need this stuff, go here for details about fitting. Wheel sizes, lowering info, and it goes on. Just to help remove at least a fair amount of these questions.

Once a noobie discovers this, they'll sit there and read everything they're interested in. Keep it well moderated so rubbish stays out of it and then just direct every repeat question to the exact same place.

[spook]

Just stop the spamming and fook off those on here who make a fast buck,

Car club my arse.

[bss325i]

+1

I've also noticed it's mostly the well known regular members that give most of the abuse on here and they are always being overlooked by the mods! You know the ones who actually do most of the slating with the 'this car is scrap', 'council' etc comments and when a newb retaliates they are the ones who end up getting being told off/banned

Corrupt justice if you ask me, it's like the mods aka teachers have favorite pupils on here...

thats because they're right, because they know something that the pictures aren't telling you 99% of the time.

Fact is the cars are getting less in numbers between the hardcore they have a large numbers of cars covered its up to other people to listen or not. You can't force people to believe you however

Agreed! The comments are not off the cuff satements but usually true remarks, as simon pointed out alot of the cars are known or have a history or have even passed through peoples hands at some point.

[bss325i]

This place has got a clique going, if a zoner posts something in that clique then it rolls on and on but if a newbie posts something of the same it gets swept away with a few posts.

I've been here nearly 5 yrs and my post count is low, the reason behind that is because I've got nothing to constructive to say.

I posted my sport restoration last year and it got little replies and I honestly thought - why should I bother to post.

I followed it on BMW Car Forum - very good it was too!

I followed it on here! Not sure I posted though..

I followed it on here and posted.

[Andyboy]

Agreed! The comments are not off the cuff satements but usually true remarks, as simon pointed out alot of the cars are known or have a history or have even passed through peoples hands at some point.

Nice 'Pina Hap!

[pacerpete]

Agreed! The comments are not off the cuff satements but usually true remarks, as simon pointed out alot of the cars are known or have a history or have even passed through peoples hands at some point.

Nice 'Pina Hap!

I really can't decide which was worst of the two sorry turds, the Hapless 'Pina or Woods 'knightmare'

[Kammy]

Fancy posting after the above 2 peoples comments once again. Nothing against you guys honestly. Just speaking in general now.

There is banter and then there is slating. Banter is all good as both sides to it are involved. Slating on the other hand is one side having a 'dig' at the other. Not quite the same.

I accept there are friends on the forum, people who know each other outside the forum and all that but there are also people here who have come on here either for information or to get to know other people who they can communicate with due to the potential one common thing (the car) that they may have. These people may not necessarily know anyone on the forum from day one. When they put posts up and start to get told to got to other clubs/forum/sites, it's not the most appropriate comment to them is it?

Just like this topic has had most of 3 pages worth of non serious comments when obviously it was started for the purpose of raising a serious issue.

If people want to have a laugh/banter or generally muck around then I'm sure there is a place for it which is off topic and not relevant to anything else. Is the Pub Talk section on this forum not the place for this?

I accept that this forum is different in it's lay out. I have been on a few other forums which I can honestly say are easier to use than this one. The Wiki is a good idea 'on paper' but for a newbie it doesn't really have all the info. Some of which may be commonly asked. I'm sure many newbies have asked if a coupe kit will fit a convertible or where the electric hood button is on a convertible but I couldn't find the answers on there, I've just tried now.

I know this whole forum is about the E30, but as we all know there are many models within this so a breakdown would be nice, ie by engine or body shape so that all info relating to say the convertibles is in one place. Otherwise a topic can quite easily get lost in pages on the E30 section when eevrybody on the entire site is posting in there. This will then make it easier to look at topics/questions people have asked relating to their specific car rather than having to look through pages and pages of unnecessary posts to eventually find one you may want to look at. However this is a seperate issue and what needs to be sorted first is the slating that goes on in here.

Thanks

Kam

[xavi1980]

is this spamming?

[Kammy]

No but maybe a waste here.

[Ace 325i]

Fancy posting after the above 2 peoples comments once again. Nothing against you guys honestly. Just speaking in general now.

There is banter and then there is slating. Banter is all good as both sides to it are involved. Slating on the other hand is one side having a 'dig' at the other. Not quite the same.

I accept there are friends on the forum, people who know each other outside the forum and all that but there are also people here who have come on here either for information or to get to know other people who they can communicate with due to the potential one common thing (the car) that they may have. These people may not necessarily know anyone on the forum from day one. When they put posts up and start to get told to got to other clubs/forum/sites, it's not the most appropriate comment to them is it?

Just like this topic has had most of 3 pages worth of non serious comments when obviously it was started for the purpose of raising a serious issue.

If people want to have a laugh/banter or generally muck around then I'm sure there is a place for it which is off topic and not relevant to anything else. Is the Pub Talk section on this forum not the place for this?

I accept that this forum is different in it's lay out. I have been on a few other forums which I can honestly say are easier to use than this one. The Wiki is a good idea 'on paper' but for a newbie it doesn't really have all the info. Some of which may be commonly asked. I'm sure many newbies have asked if a coupe kit will fit a convertible or where the electric hood button is on a convertible but I couldn't find the answers on there, I've just tried now.

I know this whole forum is about the E30, but as we all know there are many models within this so a breakdown would be nice, ie by engine or body shape so that all info relating to say the convertibles is in one place. Otherwise a topic can quite easily get lost in pages on the E30 section when eevrybody on the entire site is posting in there. This will then make it easier to look at topics/questions people have asked relating to their specific car rather than having to look through pages and pages of unnecessary posts to eventually find one you may want to look at. However this is a seperate issue and what needs to be sorted first is the slating that goes on in here.

Thanks

Kam

A prime example of this banter/slating difference was clearly present the RH Toplines thread - which seems to have been deleted/dissappeared from the Pub forum

Mods or experienced members shouldn't see suggestions or comments in a negative or offending light. The approach to constructive criticism is a little worrying. Adaptive change has to be seen as an improvement and not getting rid of deadwood or how things are done here. Why change something that works? To make it more efficient.

Just like every tree having its bad apple, even this thread has a few useless posts, but i don't think its pages of useless banter and rubbish. Some really good suggestions and observations have been made here and its good to know I'm not the only one who feels this way and have been biting my tongue..until now

Being a bit friendly or helpful instead of being sarcastic and trying to be a clown all the time wouldn't hurt. The good thing is i think 85% of the zone is already there

[Jon_Bmw]

The following rules should apply when posting:

Is it informative? If not, is it interesting? If not, is it funny?

If it doesn't meet those criteria, then think twice about posting perhaps. Getting the drivel off the forum is key, removing the banter would be criminal.

[d6dph]

As per usual, Jon has hit the nail on the head.

Would you mind if we used that text in the rules? I feel we need to make a small set of revisions to them

[Jon_Bmw]

Well, I would have to charge of course, copyright....oh hang on what was Dan saying about the public domain.

Use it, although I expect it will do little good, usually the drivel comes from people that have no ability to read or listen.

[Nay]

I know this whole forum is about the E30, but as we all know there are many models within this so a breakdown would be nice, ie by engine or body shape so that all info relating to say the convertibles is in one place. Otherwise a topic can quite easily get lost in pages on the E30 section when eevrybody on the entire site is posting in there. This will then make it easier to look at topics/questions people have asked relating to their specific car rather than having to look through pages and pages of unnecessary posts to eventually find one you may want to look at. However this is a seperate issue and what needs to be sorted first is the slating that goes on in here.

Thanks

Kam

This is exactly what I've suggested before, and earlier in the thread. It is a simple case of adding one more 'topic' in the forum home. Then relevant info always kept up to date or correct in the first post.

Wont remove the drivel, but hopefully clear up a lot of the newbie questions, providing a mildly cleaner E30 Chat.

Finally, these 'Was it you?' posts are just annoying. Or whats it worth....

[sihooker]

Maybe, instead of adding more sections, they should be re-arranged.

It seems to me the problem is that newbies open the forum section and the first thing they see is 'E30 BMW Chat', followed by 'Other BMW Chat'. If you didn't know better, and you had an E30 related problem, what would you do?

If 'E30 BMW chat' and 'Other BMW Chat' were moved down to the same section as 'Pub Talk', the first relevant heading they would come across would be 'Technical Help' which may be more to their needs.

[blue30]

Just thought I'd chip in,

I've met a few e30 owners through other clubs, forums, ads etc. and all of the ones that had heard of e30zone said they didn't like it, various different reasons but I think what people said boiled down to some people being overly negative and put-downy in response to questions or suggestions.

I have noticed that myself sometimes, some people almost try to big themselves up by being overly agressive with their opinion or 'too cool for school', or just being elitist and generaly bumming the 'hero' members and it rubs people up the wrong way.

Personaly it doesn't bother me cause you'll always get that on the internet but it is a definite thread I've picked up on specific to the zone when I've spoken to people about it. "I dont go on there, its full of wankers" etc.

Just my experiences

[Nay]

Maybe, instead of adding more sections, they should be re-arranged.

It seems to me the problem is that newbies open the forum section and the first thing they see is 'E30 BMW Chat', followed by 'Other BMW Chat'. If you didn't know better, and you had an E30 related problem, what would you do?

If 'E30 BMW chat' and 'Other BMW Chat' were moved down to the same section as 'Pub Talk', the first relevant heading they would come across would be 'Technical Help' which may be more to their needs.

TBH, the Technical Help section is actually very clean and unmolestored for a zone section.

Don't send hundreds of unaccustomed newbies to that section or it'll be hell, and no one would get decent help!

[sihooker]

Maybe, instead of adding more sections, they should be re-arranged.

It seems to me the problem is that newbies open the forum section and the first thing they see is 'E30 BMW Chat', followed by 'Other BMW Chat'. If you didn't know better, and you had an E30 related problem, what would you do?

If 'E30 BMW chat' and 'Other BMW Chat' were moved down to the same section as 'Pub Talk', the first relevant heading they would come across would be 'Technical Help' which may be more to their needs.

TBH, the Technical Help section is actually very clean and unmolestored for a zone section.

Don't send hundreds of unaccustomed newbies to that section or it'll be hell, and no one would get decent help!

Fair enough, but my point still stands. When a newbie sees the first two headings, he/she will go for the first one, probably without looking any further. It wont matter if there are 100 headings if they are not looked at...

[FASTFREDDIE]

Just thought I'd chip in,

I've met a few e30 owners through other clubs, forums, ads etc. and all of the ones that had heard of e30zone said they didn't like it, various different reasons but I think what people said boiled down to some people being overly negative and put-downy in response to questions or suggestions.

I have noticed that myself sometimes, some people almost try to big themselves up by being overly agressive with their opinion or 'too cool for school', or just being elitist and generaly bumming the 'hero' members and it rubs people up the wrong way.

Personaly it doesn't bother me cause you'll always get that on the internet but it is a definite thread I've picked up on specific to the zone when I've spoken to people about it. "I dont go on there, its full of *******" etc.

Just my experiences

I was next to a chap at the lights the other day who was driving
a e30m3

i asked him if he was on the zone to which he replied ...

i dont get involved too many wonkers on there !

i thought that was a real shame as his m3 was so nice i nearly got me willy out

[Dezzy]

i thought that was a real shame as his m3 was so nice i nearly got me willy out

And you are talking about w4nkers on here

[jaymos]

Its always the same, when someone post pics of their car you can guarantee most of the replies will be, you should change this and that, those look shite, that looks shite, why have you done that etc. Then when the owner replies that its their taste then world war 3 breaks loose. If you dont like someones car dont bother to comment on it is what i say. Too many on here think that people should change their cars to suit them, its not on.

[Dezzy]

Its always the same, when someone post pics of their car you can guarantee most of the replies will be, you should change this and that, those look shite, that looks shite, why have you done that etc. Then when the owner replies that its their taste then world war 3 breaks loose. If you dont like someones car dont bother to comment on it is what i say. Too many on here think that people should change their cars to suit them, its not on.

If you post pics of your car on an open forum surely then its fair game.

You cant expect that just cos its your car people will lick your ass.
I personally dont care what anyone else thinks of my car. I know its how i want it and i know its Mint.

I get possitive comments mostly apart from Rav but he is special, i dont care weather people like it or not. I like it.

If your car doesnt get the responce you wanted, chin up.

Thats my opinion anyway

[jbh]

Its always the same, when someone post pics of their car you can guarantee most of the replies will be, you should change this and that, those look shite, that looks shite, why have you done that etc. Then when the owner replies that its their taste then world war 3 breaks loose. If you dont like someones car dont bother to comment on it is what i say. Too many on here think that people should change their cars to suit them, its not on.

If you post pics of your car on an open forum surely then its fair game.

You cant expect that just cos its your car people will lick your ass.
I personally dont care what anyone else thinks of my car. I know its how i want it and i know its Mint.

I get possitive comments mostly apart from Rav but he is special, i dont care weather people like it or not. I like it.

If your car doesnt get the responce you wanted, chin up.

Thats my opinion anyway

+1

well said Dez..

[jaymos]

Its always the same, when someone post pics of their car you can guarantee most of the replies will be, you should change this and that, those look shite, that looks shite, why have you done that etc. Then when the owner replies that its their taste then world war 3 breaks loose. If you dont like someones car dont bother to comment on it is what i say. Too many on here think that people should change their cars to suit them, its not on.

If you post pics of your car on an open forum surely then its fair game.

You cant expect that just cos its your car people will lick your ass.
I personally dont care what anyone else thinks of my car. I know its how i want it and i know its Mint.

I get possitive comments mostly apart from Rav but he is special, i dont care weather people like it or not. I like it.

If your car doesnt get the responce you wanted, chin up.

Thats my opinion anyway

+1

well said Dez..

Im not saying you should lick someones arse, all im saying is a lot of people post pics of their cars because they are proud of them and like to show what work they have done to them. I myself like to see other zoners cars and what they have done to them. Some arent to my taste but if thats the way the owner wants their car that should be respected.

A lot of guys spend a lot of time and money on their pride and joy and to have people just shoot them down in flames and post insulting comments is not on in my eye.