Turboing a 318

[Stoney_god]

I've got a 89 318 which needs more power. The idea of dropping in a 6 pot kinda appeals but fancy something a little different. Someone suggested turbo charging my current lump using a T25 from a Rover Turbo.

Couple of questions.

1. Am I mad to think this would work ??
2. What would be the situation with connecting up the turbo.. manifolds etc
3. Am I mad to think this would work ??

cheers
mike

[E30BeemerLad]

I really know nothing about this area mate, but from my basic knowledge of turbo 4 pot beemers, isn't the M10 lump a good place to start?

[jonbuoy]

Had the same idea myself mate but you have to make sure the engine is capable to take the power difference. Basically the engine is a high compression engine and a turbo need's a low compression engine so you have to get the head sorted first for starter's and then and then and then etc!!!
Like i said, had the same idea myself and i have'nt done it. I would like to be different than the 6 pots but it cost's alot to have the same power.
My dad said a saying to me a few years back once, "If you can't beat'em, join'em".

It's a damn site cheaper

[Stoney_god]

ANy idea what bits i'd need...

the idea of a 318 is turbo has a certain appeal dont you think..

[Turbo-Brown]

You don't need a low compression motor at all, just a decent engine management system and reasonable boost/power expectations.

Go for it!

You can make tubular manifolds for around Ԛ£150 I'd say.

The T25 should be fine, get an intercooler too and that just leaves the plumbing and oil feed to sort.

Mappable engine management is a must IMO so that appropriated fuel and ignition settings under all conditions can be achieved. Unfortunately, that's the expensive bit

[Stoney_god]

Could most of the bits be used from a rover 800 vitesse as my mate's breaking one. Where would I get a tubular manifold from

Sorry never done anything like this to a watercooled engine before..

[320Touring]

ANy idea what bits i'd need...

another 2pots

seriously though, a turbo'd iS conversion would be cool-I see turbo-brown is here, i'll leave you in his more than capable hands

[Turbo-Brown]

My guess would be that you'll have to make your own, but injectors, turbo, intercooler and some of the plumbing from the Rover will be of use

[OllieB]

Can't imagine its gonna be a walk in the park though. Don't wanna piss on your fireworks but unless you REALLY like getting your hands dirty and know your stuff it is gonna be mega bucks. IMO it is far more feasible to transplant...

Just my opinion though, turbo power is so cool, even makes me miss my R5 GTT a bit (Sob)

[Stoney_god]

I know it'll prob cost a few quid but the car is so solid and 0 rust it's crying out for a bit of power. I've a few quid burning a whole in my pocket. Been looking at other cars but nothing appeals at the moment.

I can get all the bits from the Rover for pretty much fook all. I even think the turbo itself is a very miler hybrid jobbie.

[Gwynleym10]

If the whole "high compression" thing is o.k to turbo charge then the fact that the m40 is pretty compact means you will have lots of space for even bigger turbos and hudge intercoolers!

[e30_Turbo]

I heard the new Mitsi Evo 8's run 9.0-1 compression, which is quite high and they obviously don't suffer to much from it

Stoney, a small list for you to get started:

1 - Manifold, I'm sure you can buy one from the swedes, they love turbo's, try proturbo.fi, they have these for 400 euro's!

2, Turbo, T25 should be spot on, but T3 would be better


On top of that you'll need injectors and intercooler, charge pipes and a downpipe.

Standalone ECU or piggyback is def required, just to ensure that the fueling is spot on.
There is soooo much more, but the parts are needed first.

Good luck with your quest

[Stoney_god]

Right..

I'm of shopping now... I guess if I buy one item then I gonna be commited.

Lets go spend some cash..

Cheers for that. I'll be back for some more advise once I've got these bits sorted.

[320Touring]

Right..

I'm of shopping now... I guess if I buy one item then I gonna be commited.

Lets go spend some cash..

Cheers for that. I'll be back for some more advise once I've got these bits sorted.

GO PEBBLES!!!!!!

[Stoney_god]

T3 Turbo... They're from a Escort RST aren't they.

My mate said I can have the Rover T intercooler and whatever I want from the engine for nowt..

If it is an RST Turbo then I can get one of them for nothing aswell...

[Jon_Bmw]

Thats one cool manifold, i bet that would get to your house for about Ԛ£300, which is very reasonable imo. Some things you'll have to watch out for with it, engine mounts, and steering UJ. But i've never seen an m40 engine bay so i could be talking crap.

Other things, the exhaust system could be way to restrictive, causing back pressure, and turbos don't like that... Budget Ԛ£200, if you fabricate one and 10 hours labour?? or Ԛ£400+ if you get someone to do it for you.

The sump would be easy to take off to do the oil return, don't know where the oil pressure switch is on an m40 but you'll need that to become the feed.

I would also reccomend standalone engine management, something i don't have . But possibly you could use an m20 AFM, bigger injectors of an M20 or m30.

You'll also need a lot of elbow grease and time.

Enjoy

Jon

[Stoney_god]

Thats one cool manifold, i bet that would get to your house for about Ԛ£300, which is very reasonable imo. Some things you'll have to watch out for with it, engine mounts, and steering UJ. But i've never seen an m40 engine bay so i could be talking crap.

Other things, the exhaust system could be way to restrictive, causing back pressure, and turbos don't like that... Budget Ԛ£200, if you fabricate one and 10 hours labour?? or Ԛ£400+ if you get someone to do it for you.

The sump would be easy to take off to do the oil return, don't know where the oil pressure switch is on an m40 but you'll need that to become the feed.

I would also reccomend standalone engine management, something i don't have . But possibly you could use an m20 AFM, bigger injectors of an M20 or m30.

You'll also need a lot of elbow grease and time.

Enjoy

Jon

Who does the engine management ??

[Adam318i]

What about using a Turbo'd SAAB intercooler, i think the 200sx boys use them as an upgrade.

Also a know of a chap on the zone that has 2 Renault 5 GT Turbo's and an Audi Quattro turbo

Adam

[Stoney_god]

dude... this is overwelming

I'm learning to much to quickly. My friend said he can do most of the work for me for some beers etc but I need t get all the bits.

T3 Turbo
SAAB Intercooler
Pipe work from ???

[e30_Turbo]

Who does the engine management ??

I can only tell you about Megasquirt as I run that, but I have seen a lovely bit of kit called a SMT6, Dean has one and from what I have seen it would suit this application perfectly.

Send him a PM, his log on is DeanT, he'll help I'm sure.

Can be mapped on a laptop on the move too!!

[Turbo-Brown]

I honestly think a T3 is gonna be too big.

A T25 or T28 (IMO) would be much better suited to a 1.8

You need to decide NOW how much power you want. Only then can you start building your system. (OK that's a lie but it's a good start point)

[Jon_Bmw]

Thats one cool manifold, i bet that would get to your house for about Ԛ£300, which is very reasonable imo. Some things you'll have to watch out for with it, engine mounts, and steering UJ. But i've never seen an m40 engine bay so i could be talking crap.

Other things, the exhaust system could be way to restrictive, causing back pressure, and turbos don't like that... Budget Ԛ£200, if you fabricate one and 10 hours labour?? or Ԛ£400+ if you get someone to do it for you.

The sump would be easy to take off to do the oil return, don't know where the oil pressure switch is on an m40 but you'll need that to become the feed.

I would also reccomend standalone engine management, something i don't have . But possibly you could use an m20 AFM, bigger injectors of an M20 or m30.

You'll also need a lot of elbow grease and time.

Enjoy

Jon

Who does the engine management ??

Not sure what you mean by Who? perhaps what, is what you meant.

well i'm running on an m20 2.5 turbo, standard management, larger injectors, tweeqed AFM, and a vortech FMU(Fuel Management Unit), idles a bit lumpy but bearable, no longer pinks after an addition of an intercooler under full load(i.e 100mph up a steep hill with foot planted).

But i would advise you look at the forced induction links carefully to give you an idea whats involved, then look into stand alone engine management, it is the way forwards, if only i wasn't becoming a student in 2 days time i could afford it.

[Stoney_god]

What sort of power should I really expect. The engine will be largely stock... 150bhp ??

[OllieB]

If you are gonna go to the expense and trouble of turboing a N/A car like yours mate then you wanna see more power than that IMO. Is it not worth lowering the compression so you can use more boost? Can you not just put a spacer plate in to do this?

[Stoney_god]

No idea fella. Just parts collecting at the mo. I've got a T25 Hybrid, Intercooler and loads of pipe work all from a Rober 820 Vitesse. The turbo's done about 500 miles so that's a plus.

[Turbo-Brown]

Have a think about what power levels you want. 6 or 7 psi should see you past 200bhp <EDIT if the stock power output was 150bhp> and for that level of boost, why ruin the off boost performance and economy by lowering the CR?

EDIT> oh hang on, 150bhp's not the N/A power of that engine is it?

The other thing about compression lowering is that is knocks huge chunks out of the power in the first place, power which just has to be put back with the boost so with standard compression and say 6psi, you should see 200(ish)bhp, with lowered compression and mabey 12psi, you'll most likely still see 200bhp.

There's a good reason why manufacturers are using high compression ratios

Also, spacer plates or double head gaskets are a shite way of lowering the compression! Have the pistons modified if you must lower it, and if that'd leave them too weak, get pistons designed for the job.

[Stoney_god]

Will anything be needed to be done to the bottom end of the engine ?? (providing it's all ok that is)

[E30Mark]

A bit of light reading for you...


http://home.att.net/~jroal/jay/bmw.htm

[e30_Turbo]

Will anything be needed to be done to the bottom end of the engine ?? (providing it's all ok that is)

This is the "money" question really, if you can use a stock bottom end then if you do have a problem, you can replace the bottom end for another std one.

If you do upgrade it and it breaks it will cost much more.

The whole "vibe" of my and Ant's projects was to use a stock M20B25 and just add the parts where needed, so if I do get carried away and blow it then I can replace for a few hunderd quid and be back on the road asap.

Most engine builders I have spoken too have all said that BMW engines have such low tolerences in production that most bottom end mods are not really needed.

If you were going for silly RWHP then you could go to town on mods, but I'd suggest stock bottom end and piece of mind that if it does give out, it's a cheap quick fix

So....you gonna do it then???

[Stoney_god]

That's what I wanted to hear.

I've already collected to Turbo, intercooler, bits of pipe work last night. I've got another M40 head which a friend will do all the neccessary work on for me as a favour coz he works in a performance repair centre and he owes me big time !!. The only real area of concern I have is down to manifold and engine management systems. Exhaust ain't an issue a friend owns an Aircooled Modifiers building one off headers and exhaust for his customer. Need need to obtain a slipper and a big brake kit for the front and I'm away.... hopefully..

[OllieB]

"why ruin the off boost performance and economy by lowering the CR?

The other thing about compression lowering is that is knocks huge chunks out of the power in the first place, power which just has to be put back with the boost" - quote Turbo-Brown

I know I'm just silly and childish, but you have got to admit that low comp engines with big boost are a hoot to drive, when they spool up (eventually!) and chuck you back in the seat, thats what turbo's are all about IMO!!

Remember on Top Gear when they raced an Evo 8 versus some Fiat diesel in fourth gear from tickover and because of the lag the fiat caned it. LOL.

[Turbo-Brown]

Each unto their own I guess

I finally got to drive my ol' man's car a couple of months ago. It's a Volvo 850AWD turbo. The throttle response was absolutely shocking! There was not a hope in hell of heel and toeing cos people just don't need to brake for that long!

If you leave the CR standard, then you get pretty much the same accelerative shove from the word go as you would have running N/A, but then you get the kick of the turbos, plus the engine does what you tell it to.

Have to say that my M20's response wasn't great compared to my old 205GTi which is why I'm going to all the trouble of making direct to head throttle bodies for it