Sandown Trackday (Australian video content!)

[AlpineAde]

This footage is from a Driver Dynamics trackday held at Sandown, here in very bloody hot Melbourne. The temperature was in the mid 30s (35 ºC = 95 ºF) so it made for a tough day....

Bumper cam....

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Given that it is the GoPro, this one should be watched at 480p.

And an in-car view:

[youtube][/youtube]

You have a choice of 360, 480 and 720 for your viewing "pleasure" LOL! It's rather pedestrian.

These are the accompanying comments:

"The last session of the Driver Dynamics day for me, late in the proceedings ~ very, very hot indeed. The car is a 1989 BMW E30 325i sedan and the camera used was an Aiptek (very cheap ~ about $150 AUD) mounted via sticky pod on the rear window. Grip wasn't great and I was battling a helmet that had managed to lose a part of itself LOL! Overall, I don't think the temperature was doing anyone any favours in terms of grip, power or keeping things cool. Still, a fun day and it was good to get the old thing out on track again. I found my concentration wandering a bit in this session and it was probably best to pack it in when I did. Always better to be safe in these situations than sorry later on.

Overall, the car behaved very well, though tyres did prove to be an issue and given the temperature it developed a small amount of coolant weeping through a tired hose to the expansion tank. Coolant level was fine, though, so no biggie. Replace the tired old hose with new OEM and all will be right for next time!"

It was a full field, 45 cars in 3 groups ~ though I'm buggered if I know why an Ariel Atom was put in our group. Lots of great machinery, a GT3, M cars (an M5, M6 and a beautiful M3 CSL that had an off and tore the front splitter off the car), a few very tasty Euros, and a load of big horsepower V8s and Japanese turbo jobbies.

Hope you like the vids....

[MillRat]

Hey Ade,

Good vid's. The car is sounding great these days. What tyres were you running on the day? It would've be good to see you lean on the rear tyres a little more out of some of those corners to squeeze as much as possible out of the car, but it is a daily driver and it wasn't a race.

I will try and get over to Victoria this year or next for a track day at PI or Sandown, so it would be great to have the opportunity to punt mine around along side you Victorians (not many E30's over here being tracked so it is very hard to judge how my car is going).

Great stuff!

[AlpineAde]

Thanks, matey!

You can only really hear tyre noise on a couple of corners (turn 6 being the main one) but to be honest I just wasn't game enough to go too much harder. I'm still in need of another track day or two (with a couple more instructor sessions) and the day was making things very unpredictable in terms of tyre behaviour. Running a 60 profile ended up having a n effect of driving something a little "squishy" LOL!

I'm running Pirelli Dragons (Australian version) which are very good and come in at the low end of their ultra-high performance range. They are a sensational street tyre and stand up to track use quite well but I really need a larger rim and a 50 profile tyre like a Toyo R888 or something from the Proxes range. 60 profile tyres are not brilliant. The good thing though is that I am now "feeling" my tyres more, getting a sense of what they're doing, so that is a bonus.

At the moment, I'm looking to get some Team Dynamics 15" rims like these:



or these:



Both are a little over 6kgs and there is now an Australian distributor for them. Good pricing, too. It also means I can run a little more in terms of brakes if I wish.

I will try and get over to Victoria this year or next for a track day at PI or Sandown,

That would be great! I've never been to PI so I would definitely try to get there and I really think Sandown is a great circuit, with turns 6-9 being one of the great sections of track ~ the run down through there at speed is a classic, especially given the proximity of the fences.

[AussieM20]

That looks like great fun. I have my first track day on March 6th at Queensland Raceway. New experience but should be great. What brake pads are you guys using? and are you using Braided brake hoses or OEM Hoses?

Regards
Greg

[AlpineAde]

It's a ball, Greg ~ you'll love it!

I use EBC Yellowstuff pads. Very nice, very hardy pad; the more you cane them the more they like it. I'm not sure what pads MillRat uses ~ perhaps PM him? I also quite like the sound of Performance Friction pads from what I've read about them and the positive reviews that they are getting.

A lot of guys use braided lines (just make sure that they are ADR compliant if you drive your car on the street) but I just use OEM lines (nice and fresh...for now! LOL!)

Make sure you use a decent fluid, too. You don't want to boil your fluid after just a few laps.

Oops! Almost forgot...welcome! I hope you enjoy your time on the forum.

[MillRat]

Hey Greg,

I am using Performance Friction Racing pads (PF06 from memory) in my E30. They are a track dedicated pad (i.e. hopeless when cold) so I wouldn't use them in my daily, however on track they have been VERY good so far.

I still run OEM rubber brake lines (albiet new ones), and have had no problems so far. However I reckon that with braided lines I would get an even better pedel feel.

I am trying to convince my girlfriend to jump in the car for a practice day at Mallala but she is worried that she will be to slow and make a fool of herself, to which my reply was don't be stupid. It's all about having fun, and on a practice day there are two kinds of people; those there to have fun ~95% and those testing cars (the remaining 5%).

Lastly if you are using road tyres, be very careful about what tyre pressures you start with. I was at a track day once with someone who was told to increase his tyre pressures over what he used on the road. After an hour of sitting in the pit paddock after his first run we measured the pressures at over 50 psi. The on-track pressure would have been dangerous.

Good luck.

P.s. Ade, those first rims are sweet, and look more racey than the bottom rims. Nice and light too..

[MillRat]

Oh and Ade,

I finally made the plundge... no holding back or excuses now!

[AlpineAde]

Awesome! You've really done a fine job on the car, Michael ~ it's come together very nicely indeed. I reckon it'd absolutely fly at Sandown.

Good call on tyres too. Greg, make sure you set your pressures cold and set them for spirited driving (I tend to run 34/36 f/r). Monitor throughout the day as track/ambient temp will increase the pressures for you. You'll find that they will increase anywhere from 4-10 psi, depending on the variables of the day and driver. A lot of people tend to under-inflate their tyres to begin with and they just don't work. The only tyres where you should be looking at less than 30psi cold temps are the road legal "track" tyres you can buy. They work much better with lower pressures. AT Sandown on the day above there were a few guys I saw who had pressures of 50psi odd. Not good!

[AussieM20]

Thanks for the replies. I too am strugling to get my girlfriend to go for a track run..Will advise if i am successful. Looks like i will go the EBC Yellowstuff pads, only had good reports.

Will let you know how we go.

Regards
Greg

[djs325]

For dedicated track use, you can't go past the Performance Friction 06 for performance. And now with the exchange rate, they RETAIL for less than AUD $170 a set from PFC Australia! Warning, they are nil-stock at the moment, but will have some more coming in the near future.

EBC Yellow is not as potent, but does work better when colder, and is a bit more liveable with if you left them in the car to drive it home.

Definitely recommend the Team Dynamics Pro Race 1.2 or 1.3 over the Pro Race 2. Better force distribution around the outer edge, and less chance of a dangerous bend. These have been used and abused in SpecE30, Prod BMW Cup, E30 Racing etc, with good reports. Available at good prices from BimmerWorld, set of 4 delivered via air-freight for less than AUD$1000. Steer clear of D-Force!

P.S> Ade, who's the Australian distributor you're talking to?

[AlpineAde]

Dave, I read with a great deal of interest your assessment of the D-Force rims on ECCA and felt it warranted a bit of a follow-up. As someone who knows these cars inside out and who knows what it is to race them seriously there was no way I was going to ignore what you had to say. After a bit of searching it appears that a few racers/track guys ended up having issues with these rims ~ similar to those you described yourself. I would not purchase these rims after reading through what you and others had to say.

I have always liked the Team Dynamics rims; and have really liked the multi-spoked 1, 1.2, 1.3 series of wheels. I had a similar style on my old Audi and loved the look. I found these guys after a bit of a search:

http://www.tyrepitstop.com.au/team-dynamics-wheels.asp

But if I can land a set of Team Dynamics rims in a 15x7, ET 20-25 for less than a grand Australian then these guys are not even in the hunt.

As for pads, I really like the Yellowstuff. I'm used to driving with them on the street and I'm not in a position to swap pads over for the drive home, unfortunately; so perhaps I should stick with them. Is there a Performance Friction pad that is a "step down" from the 06 pads that still have plenty to offer for the track?

[AussieM20]

Hello Ade,

I just watched the in car again. Looks great and performs well. Is it a stock M20B25 or any mods? Has yours got an LSD?

Did it run hot on such a hot day?

Regards
Greg

[AlpineAde]

No LSD. It's an open 3.73 diff.

Mods: essentially a cam, MAF conversion, match ported inlet manifold, larger injectors and BBTB, We won't see the best of that lot until the management is helped along with the Miller WAR chip and we can map for the mods properly.

The heat was something that Satan himself would have felt at home in. Bloody hot and a real horsepower sucker. Everyone was feeling it ~ doesn't stop the fun, though.

The last 2 sessions saw the car run a tad hot. After my last session (the in-car vid) I realized that I was losing concentration and called it quits. I discovered a leak in the cooling system that will be rectified this next week (old car + stinking hot day + old car under enormous load = huge pressure in cooling system = weak point failure). Coolant level was OK ~ I just didn't like seeing coolant weeping out near the top of the radiator via a hose.

[djs325]

Ade, BimmerWorld is your new best friend. Their Team Dynamics 7Jx15 wheels are supplied with an ET25 offset, so the centreline of the wheel is the same as the centre line of the brake rotor and the wheel bearing. Just make sure they get shipped USPS Priority Mail, that's the cheapest USPS service, but it will still cost upwards of US$250 to send 2 wheels -> the shipping costs more than the wheels (2x $109.99 right now)! Unless you can find a sea-freight option for them... Even if you had to pay GST, you'd still be paying less than AUD$1100 for a set.

Performance Friction only make the E30 pad shapes in their race compounds, 01 and 06; and 01 is most likely out of production given the benefits of the 06 compound. They made a few batches of the E30 front pad in Z-Rated Carbon Metallic, but they are long gone! Explanations of the compounds here:
http://www.performancefrictionbrakes.co ... OTORSPORTS

In the US, there have been guys driving to & from circuits with 01 compound pads in their cars. Not great reports, but workable; no such data regarding the 06 pads.

[AlpineAde]

Thanks, Dave! I'll have to start following the goings on of Bimmerworld more closely by the looks of things. Cheers!

[AussieM20]

Fellas'

Spoke to Performance Friction today, As Advised nil stock on E30 pads in 06 compound. The 01 compound is no longer produced. Apparently a group of Kiwi BMw guys did a group buy resulting in nil stock. At $168 a set turns out to be good value. Priced EBC Yellows today and found them to be $365 set. Put the PC Pads on Back order. Might leave the 6 March Track day and run 27 March at same venue. The 325i has standard pads now. I guess they would fade pretty quickly on the track.

Also, what engine mounts do you guys run, the M20 E30 type are weak and tear through. Thinking about fitting M50 mounts, have you done this.

Thanks
Greg

[AlpineAde]

Standard pads would die very quickly.

As for engine mounts ~ OEM. Still fine even now but I'll look at options when the time comes to replace them.

[djs325]

As I have posted several times before, BimmerWorld is your friend!
They can supply the Ireland Engineering engine mounts (EXCELLENT parts, just crap customer service from the IE staff) and matching transmission mounts. You will have to ask nicely for them though!
If you want a rush ordered set of Performance Friction pads, BimmerWorld also keep the 0278.06 and 0279.06 (front and rear) pads in stock. You might need to email them your details to do credit card orders, but otherwise they are a really great bunch of guys to deal with.
Always specify USPS Priority Mail for shipping, it is the cheapest option you have available to you.

[AussieM20]

Not doing the first track day this weekend as the pads have not arrived. Next one is the 27 March, am working that day but should be able to swap with someone else. Hopefully will have pads by then. Have ordered braided lines too.

Regards

Greg

[AlpineAde]

Hopefully all will be well for the 27th, mate, and you can get out there. Remember: take pics! I'd love to see them ~ video too if it is possible. That would be great.

[AussieM20]

Should be ok for pics. Have not got a vid camera but would be keen for an internal setup like yours.

Good to see the drive from another perspective.

Greg

[AlpineAde]

Interestingly, that internal cam setup cost me about $200 or thereabouts. I still have to polish up the mounting so I can dampen out some of the vibration but I reckon it does a reasonable job for such a cheap setup.

[AussieM20]

Hello Ade and Djs,

Have now recieved the Performance Friction 06 pads front and rear. At $330 for front and rear, they appear to be excellent value in reality. Fitted them today, bedded them in and , wow what a difference. Fantastic feel and probably only need about half the pedal effort to pull the car up comparably. They do squeel a little bit when hot and slightly more pedal effort needed cold. Think they will be beaut.

Will try and Do QLD Raceway on the 27th, subject to cyclone effects due to arrive here soon.

Regards

Greg

[AlpineAde]

Thanks for the update, Greg! I hope your day on the 27th goes as planned and you can get out there and have a crack.

[djs325]

Greg, definitely looking forward to your feedback with your new PFC pads...

[AussieM20]

Well today was Track Day no 1. Was originally planned for the 27th of March but canned that because it turned out to be the "Top Gear" series which is somewhat more advanced than what a novice like me can produce!

So today was it, first time for me racing on a sealed track (Had some rally experience in the late 90's).
I can report the following.

1. the Standard except for the Eprom chip M20B25 goes hard and tolerated the 3 stages without hickup. Pretty impressive for 22 years old and 250k's.
2. The brakes. Fitted performance friction pads and Braided lines.
The brakes are fantasic, i feel ultra confident in them
3. The standard Sumitomo 195/60/14 road tyres are appalling!
Traction is very poor and the whole car feels very slippery. Can not turn in under brakes as it steps out straight away.
4.A limited slip diff would be great as it spins the inside wheel out of turns easily.

Question: Are you guys running semi slicks, if so can you advise size and brand. Think i will organise a set for the next meet.

Regards
Greg

[AlpineAde]

Well done, Greg! You had a blast, I hope?

I too run a 60 profile tyre. They are pretty squidgy. Mine don't sound as bad as yours...a bit stickier perhaps. I have Pirellis, the Dragons, which in our part of the world are part of the top Pirelli line. They are not rated for big mileages, which is the trade-off for performance.

I will eventually get a 50 profile road legal track tyre. I just need a good 15" rim first (I'll end up with Team Dynamics I reckon). Have a look at Toyo and Dunlop.

Once you tart the standard brakes up they perform very well indeed.

I, too, really feel the need for an LSD. A 3.91 would be ideal, but I reckon I could stick with a 3.73 quite happily.

[AussieM20]

Yes, Did have a blast.

Am happy with the 3.73 for this track as the short straights it is running at 6000rpm in 3rd just before having to brake. A 3.91 would see a short change into 4th.

Tracked down a set of "Copy" E36 325i Coupe sport 5 spoke rims today to suit E30. Will organise a set of semi slicks soon.

Left front wheel bearing is shot after the cornering loads put onto it. How long do you get from front whl bearings?

Regards

Greg

[djs325]

I normally get 1-2 seasons out of a front hub assembly.

3.91 is a usable ratio at every track in Australia (I know, have driven almost all of them) for a standard-ish 325i.

LSD is a must. Without one you are just wasting time and tyres.

205/50R15 semi-slick, would recommend the Yokohama AO48 as there should be plenty of second handies available from the Improved Production guys; or the Toyo Proxes R888 from the Mazda MX5 series if you can get them. Beware that different tyres can often require very different spring rates to work effectively (e.g. AO48 is a very stiff tyre that works best with softer springs, the R888 requires much higher rates to work as well).

With the brakes, remember to flush the fluid regularly (or highly recommend a flush of Castrol SRF that would last a while), and get yourself an E32 BMC (check the threads on ECCA for info).

Thought you'd feel that way about the PFC brakes!

[AussieM20]

Thanks Dave,

That is not too bad from whl brgs. Will keep my eye out for a 3.91 Lsd.
Next track day is in June, nice and cool, plenty of time to source some semi slicks. Have ordered a set of subframe bush void fillers, so will be interesting to see if the rear end feels more direct. Have you run a 325i at Queensland Raceway (Sprint Circuit)?

Will let you guys know how it goes.

Regards
Greg

[AlpineAde]

Will let you guys know how it goes.

Please do! Look forward to future updates.

[djs325]

Wouldn't bother with void fillers, I go straight for Powerflex complete replacements (either street or track depending on your intentions).

My car did a 1:27.5 at Queensland Raceway (only raced on National), a 1:13.0 at Morgan Park (2.2km full track), and ~62 seconds at Lakeside (unofficial timing off video footage from practice day).

Enjoy trying to match those times!

[AussieM20]

Hello Gents,

Have now fitted the 15 inch rims and Kumho KU36 205/50/15 semi slicks. What a difference, ultra direct and pin sharp steering and response on the road. Did use the subframe bush fillers as the previous owner had recently replaced them with oe rubber bushes. The rear end feels firm now.

Keen for the next track day, June 19th at QR. Have an action camera and made up a mount for the parcel shelf. Will report times and if i can master the video, put it up too.

Regards
Greg

[djs325]

Next stop, PFC06 Pads!

Hello Gents,

Have now fitted the 15 inch rims and Kumho KU36 205/50/15 semi slicks. What a difference, ultra direct and pin sharp steering and response on the road. Did use the subframe bush fillers as the previous owner had recently replaced them with oe rubber bushes. The rear end feels firm now.

Keen for the next track day, June 19th at QR. Have an action camera and made up a mount for the parcel shelf. Will report times and if i can master the video, put it up too.

Regards
Greg

[AlpineAde]

Hello Gents,

Have now fitted the 15 inch rims and Kumho KU36 205/50/15 semi slicks. What a difference
Greg

Excellent! And worth a fair bit of time per lap, too.