Boat Anchors don't handle

[jimcameron]

...my arse.

E30 335, entered in the inaugural MSV Trackday Trophy series.
3rd on the grid at Brands, 0.299 seconds behind pole - a full race E30 M3.

Race delayed due to downpour - track flooded.

Finally underway, it would appear that I won it. So much for 'it won't handle'

Took the M3 on about Lap 4, when I still had wipers

[charlE30]

...my arse.

E30 335, entered in the inaugural MSV Trackday Trophy series.
3rd on the grid at Brands, 0.299 seconds behind pole - a full race E30 M3.

Race delayed due to downpour - track flooded.

Finally underway, it would appear that I won it. So much for 'it won't handle'

Took the M3 on about Lap 4, when I still had wipers

Very very cool well done mate, good to see a "boat anchor" stick it's finger up at everyone.

[Ziggy]

[Rav335uk]

Well done

[Andy325i]

[Royalratch]

Edit:

Better acceleration and straight line speed and your superior skills driving skills could make up the difference - not sure this proves handling finesses on a par with an M3 etc etc.

[ImysE30]

M30 Power

[jimcameron]

Edit:

Better acceleration and straight line speed and your superior skills driving skills could make up the difference - not sure this proves handling finesses on a par with an M3 etc etc.

Never said that it did. Just said that it does handle...

[Royalratch]

Well this depends on your definition handling.

[leeparkes]

Well done!

People who say an M30 ruins the handling have never driven one

[Rav335uk]

Well done!

People who say an M30 ruins the handling have never driven one

+1

[Cook318IS]

I wonder how you would of done against a m52'd e30 though

[Rav335uk]

I wonder how you would of done against a m52'd e30 though

Probably lapped it

[Cook318IS]

I wonder how you would of done against a m52'd e30 though

Probably lapped it

the m52 would of lapped the m30? yeah i agree with you

[Rav335uk]

LOL you know it would have lapped the M52

[Cook318IS]

You know the superior 24v car would win, don't lie I think we need a zone trackday at somepoint to put you boat sailors back in your place!

[Rav335uk]

Did you not watch the vid properly

[leeparkes]

You know the superior 24v car would win, don't lie I think we need a zone trackday at somepoint to put you boat sailors back in your place!

Didnt Gareth challenge you all at brands recently?

[Rav335uk]

You know the superior 24v car would win, don't lie I think we need a zone trackday at somepoint to put you boat sailors back in your place!

Didnt Gareth challenge you all at brands recently?

Where's he gone????
Looks like he's done one

[Cook318IS]

I fell asleep I missed that thread i think

[Rav335uk]

I fell asleep I missed that thread i think

You "Chose" to

[jimcameron]

Great 'scene' argument

My definition of 'handling'? I think the results speak for themselves. Look, I drive lots of cars, race and otherwise on track in the course of my job. I've an E39 M5, a MX-5 RS Ltd and a 964 in the garage. They are all different. By all means tip up in something else, the next Trackday Trophy race is on 27 June. I'm sure whatever you bring will handle beautifully, and I'll do my best to drive round that as well

[Rav335uk]

Great 'scene' argument

My definition of 'handling'? I think the results speak for themselves. Look, I drive lots of cars, race and otherwise on track in the course of my job. I've an E39 M5, a MX-5 RS Ltd and a 964 in the garage. They are all different. By all means tip up in something else, the next Trackday Trophy race is on 27 June. I'm sure whatever you bring will handle beautifully, and I'll do my best to drive round that as well

Well said, here here

[Royalratch]

You mean well bragged.

There's not a boat anchor in one of the cars you mentioned, ironically.

[jimcameron]

Sorry, didn't mean to brag. Just pointing out that I'm not blinkered to a particular layout, engine, or marque. You implied I know little about vehicle dynamics, I pointed out that I do it for a living.

You need to look up 'irony', chap. And relax a bit.

My point remains, that the argument that an M30 engine 'ruins' the handling of an E30 is rubbish. A big six engined E30 can be a real tool, if done right.

[gareth]

agreed. if my M30 conversion had ruined the handling, i wouldn't still have it 4 years on.

it's funny but unsuprising that everyone who slates the M30's handling hasn't owned or driven one...

when i was at brands hatch recently (where i challenged the 24V fairies to a showdown... none turned up ) my 335i (a lardy 1400kg touring) was as fast if not faster than the 'average' skyline owners. only the 400bhp+ ones were faster, much to their annoyance as my car to them is: "an old estate car with a towball"

there's no arguing that a M30 is heavy, or that a lighter engine would in theory be better. however in practice the difference is very little. and unlike the haterz i HAVE owned and driven M40, M20 and M30 powered E30's so can compare them back to back and not rely on the internet to provide me with an opinion...

well done Jim, keep us posted on the next rounds, it sounds like a good series to watch!

[Royalratch]

Of course you meant to brag. The whole thing is a brag lol! 'I can make a boat anchor handle I can.'

Nobody implied anything, you started a debate and I'm adding to it - I disagree with you no big deal.

You say large engines not originally fitted (for good reason) to a small lighter car work, then mention a bunch of other cars known for good engine choice (1 a 4-pot) and dynamics that are the total opposite to what you're suggesting.

Also, extra speed and power does not equate to handling.

[jimcameron]

Also, extra speed and power does not equate to handling.

Of course. No-one said that wasn't the case.

Less weight is always better. Less offset or high weight disproportionally better. But the argument that an M30 in an E30 simply doesn't work, or irretrievably destroys the handling is... wrong.

Does it have the immediacy of a sorted 318is that it once was? No.

Is it an understeering pig?
No.

So, okay, we are somewhere inbetween, and it comes down to judgement and feel. You imply that an M30 engined car is on the unsatisfactory side of driver engagement. I know that you are wrong, and a race win in the pissing rain against theoretically much better handling stuff should give you some impression that I am not making it up.

By the way, E39 M5s are too heavy, 964's engine is in the wrong place, MX-5 has far too much body roll, and I still love them. All fantastic handling cars regardless. To argue otherwise, on the internet, would be silly, wouldn't it?

[bmwsport]

I had a '90 325i sport before i got the '85 H28 and this car handles so much better IMO and after having an M30 driven E30 i could not even think to go back to a 325i or lesser model as they feel so slow in comparison. At the end of the day i don't rally my cars, i like to look after them so on a nice sunday drive i'd rather have a bit more power on hand for straightline kickdown rather than slightly more responsive steering.

[e21Jason]

Well done

I have a boot anchor in an e21 track car and with bit of work the front end wieghs less than stock, it's only the polar momentum of inertia that you can't really change but the car can be set up to suit the wieght distribution.

And I laugh when peopel think that 911's (pre 964) are good handling cars.

Jason

[jimcameron]

Cheers

Race report now on PH:

http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=129&i=21739

[e30den]

Sorry, didn't mean to brag. Just pointing out that I'm not blinkered to a particular layout, engine, or marque. You implied I know little about vehicle dynamics, I pointed out that I do it for a living.

You need to look up 'irony', chap. And relax a bit.

My point remains, that the argument that an M30 engine 'ruins' the handling of an E30 is rubbish. A big six engined E30 can be a real tool, if done right.

Well done jim, been reading your posts on PH.
You should keep some rain x handy for the next time your
wipers pack in

[jimcameron]

Thanks chap... i had put Rain-X on the side windows, fortunately. Stupidly never thought the 30 year old original, and thinking about it, somewhat erratic wiper motor would be okay

[AlpineAde]

Just read your posts and watched the vid. Congrats Jim! A win first time out in a new series. Excellent result!

[jimcameron]

Thankyou Ade. Nice part of the world you are from, I spent last spring out there in an assortment of HSVs

Jealous of your climate!