BMW MINI run flat tyres...

[bss325i]

bss325i - do you work for BMW or something similar because your denial about the characteristics of these tyres is almost laughable! The fact is when the ambient temp drops below 10oC they become uncomfortable.

I dont work for BMW itself but i do work at a BMW dealer.

How the hell am i in denial when i have said that the do give increased road noise and do have a stiffer side wall there fore giving a harsh ride ON A CAR NOT DESIGNED TO USE THEM!

And how is it a fact that they become uncomfortable below an ambient temp of 10oC? Thats an opinion not a fact!

I drive BMW's with runflats everyday and there is no noticable difference when ambient temps drop low.

Tyres heat up when in use due to friction anyway so wont be at 10oC for very long!

BMWland, an enthusists forum like this one with experienced petrol heads and almost 50000 registered users is worth ignoring is it? Suggest you go and read fella!

So all 50000 members drive cars with run flats every day?

No thought not!

You failed to comment about the change in characteristics of a car when changed to conventional rubber, and how died in the wool BMW fans have ignored cars with these tyres.

No i didn't fail to comment how the characteristics changed, i sad that changing to non RF's on a car designed to used them could potentially compromise the handeling characteristics of it but you clearly havent read my previous posts properly.

Another arm chair expert, welcome to the zone, you'll fit in well here!

[Kos]

barry , you seem to be denying us our opinions.

i spoke to a couple of techies at my dealership today, and the parts guys all who have been there for 20 plus years

thay all said RF were shit, and the primarly reason for using them was not safety it was convineice, and another reason........ which you may be able to help out with

whats in the boot these days , where the spare wheel carrier would go ?

[Andyboy]

whats in the boot these days , where the spare wheel carrier would go ?

On An E90 saloon, a big underfloor storage compartment.

I drove an E90 318d ES the other day - all 14 miles home, and back the next day. It felt a bit odd compared to most, almost as it it had a balljoint out. The ride was rather better than normal though.

The reason? It had been fitted with four non runflat tyres. They were however a cheap spurious make and were the balloon tyres on standard 16 inch alloys. When it comes to the 17 and 18 inch wheels I doubt runflats make any difference. No BMW is a paragon of ride comfort, not even a shitty basic 116i. A Golf is vastly superior.

[Kos]

and in the boot area, apparently there are lots of control modules/ecu's etc.

the ride on 18's and 19's there is negligabel difference, and thats with the sport suspension. lets face we are all used to firm rides, but is still prefer the normal tyres. Falken dont do RF's lol

[E39mad]

Arm chair expert - nice welcome buddy! If you read my initial post it commented on how we owned a BMW Mini with RFT's for two years and I hated them - my opinion yes but also the opinion of others who KNOW how a car should ride as well as handle and what the traditional attributes of a BMW are - new drivers to BMW mainly reps in 320d's may think their car is fantastic in comparison to their old Focus not knowing that previous generous Bimmers did the overall job better - again before being shot down in flames my opinion, but also the opinion of many others who have been faithful to the mark of many years and decades.

When a sidewall is 60% stiffer IIRC it is bound to have a detremental effect on the ride comfort whether the car is designed for it or not! Why are the new F10 5's in Germany on conventional rubber whilst UK cars are on RFT's? It's a strange way round if you ask me.

Anyway as stated above everyone is entitled to their own opinion otherwise the world will be a boring place

[bss325i]

and in the boot area, apparently there are lots of control modules/ecu's etc.

Only on some models mate. Most models with modules in the boot have them in the wells each side of the luggage comparment.

[Kos]

and in the boot area, apparently there are lots of control modules/ecu's etc.

Only on some models mate. Most models with modules in the boot have them in the wells each side of the luggage comparment.

more weight would be hanging over the arse of the car with a spare wheel, right

[bss325i]

Arm chair expert - nice welcome buddy! If you read my initial post it commented on how we owned a BMW Mini with RFT's for two years and I hated them - my opinion yes but also the opinion of others who KNOW how a car should ride as well as handle and what the traditional attributes of a BMW are - new drivers to BMW mainly reps in 320d's may think their car is fantastic in comparison to their old Focus not knowing that previous generous Bimmers did the overall job better - again before being shot down in flames my opinion, but also the opinion of many others who have been faithful to the mark of many years and decades.

When a sidewall is 60% stiffer IIRC it is bound to have a detremental effect on the ride comfort whether the car is designed for it or not! Why are the new F10 5's in Germany on conventional rubber whilst UK cars are on RFT's? It's a strange way round if you ask me.

Anyway as stated above everyone is entitled to their own opinion otherwise the world will be a boring place

So you drove one car with one size of run flat for two years so how can yo say that ALL flats are bad?!

What i are trying to say, that i dont KNOW a car is supposed to ride and handle?!

I've driven far to many different cars to remember (including the "old focus's" you mention, which incidently have supreme handeling characteristics!) which has put me in a position to be able to judge how a car rides and handles.

As for F10's having non RF's in germany, i cant comment on that matter as i dont have the answer.

Previous generations of BMW's doing the job better?! Oh come on for f*cks sake! You think BMW are going to take a backward step i chassis design?!

And yes, that chassis are developed to work in conjuction with RF's..........

[Kos]

barry

when he say "old" Ford focus, he means their previous fleet/company car prior to getting a RF equiped BMW company car.

wouldnt you be happy to swith from a FF to a BMW. as the guy says they dont care, they just love having a BMW.

[B7]

F*cking hell this is getting boring!

A 5 fookin page thread about fun flat tyres!! If you like the idea of runflats and dont mind a minute change in ride comfort then use them, if you dont, dont

Spot on my man.

I drive my Bro in laws 120d Msport on runflats and it seems okay to me. Rides the same as my 530i Sport on 17" Conti's to an extent. Both a touch too hard for the country lanes but thats the payoff for hard suspension and lack of sidewall.

[E39mad]

There appears to be no point arguing with you fella - all I suggest is you read some of the following posts from the land whereby if you put Run Flat Tyres in the search engine you get 471 seperate threads where they are discussed. What appears to be the case is that BMW are tuning their cars to these tyres as time moves on and the tyre manufacturers are making better versions to suit the vehicles.

http://www.bmwland.co.uk/talker/viewtop ... 24&start=0

http://www.bmwland.co.uk/talker/viewtop ... flat+tyres

http://www.bmwland.co.uk/talker/viewtop ... 93&start=0

http://www.bmwland.co.uk/talker/viewtop ... flat+tyres

[sihooker]

F*cking hell this is getting boring!

Speak for yourself...i find this discussion interesting!

generations of BMW's doing the job better?! Oh come on for f*cks sake! You think BMW are going to take a backward step i chassis design?!

...Z3??

[bss325i]

barry

when he say "old" Ford focus, he means their previous fleet/company car prior to getting a RF equiped BMW company car.

wouldnt you be happy to swith from a FF to a BMW. as the guy says they dont care, they just love having a BMW.

Kos, i have driven all incarnations of ford Focus, not just old ones.

[bss325i]

F*cking hell this is getting boring!

Speak for yourself...i find this discussion interesting!

generations of BMW's doing the job better?! Oh come on for f*cks sake! You think BMW are going to take a backward step i chassis design?!

...Z3??

Not backward or forwards, just using an existing design.

[bss325i]

I wanted to spark a debate on the RFT issue from (what I hope people will see) is the 'middle ground' because I think we have become too far polarised on this forum (mostly) against the RFTs.

I will be the first to put my hand up and say that under normal, daily driving conditions, I doubt I could tell the difference between the two types of tyres.

I contend that nearly all tyres perform well under normal day-to-day driving conditions and consequently discharge their duty admirably; indeed I will go a little further to suggest that many people don't know how to drive cars properly and consequently it matters not if you drive the 1L Aygo or a V8 BMW - in everyday driving, both do the same job and are very similar, thus it matters not if I have RFTs - or not on my car.

I appreciate my above statement may come across as being offencive and condescending, but I ask that you read it again to see what I am trying to say...

...when we're doing 30 [in a 30 zone] or even at speeds up to the 'national speed limit' - most modern cars are pretty much the samey because we're not doing anything drastic. A V8 BMW will do no better (or worse) than a 1L Aygo in these circumstances as we're not [yet] talking about driving dynamics - but rather just the point-to-point daily average commute type of driving.

So if this is the type of driving we do most times, and majority of our time is taken up with this style of driving, why then are we feeling so aggrieved at the behavioural characteristics (or not) of runflat tyres? The only time a tyre becomes [more] important is when you are driving beyond the norm - a condition that I contend happens infrequently and a situation that arises in the minority. What do I mean by this? Well consider when driving dynamics would play a part - such as cornering [at speed], driving through inclement weather, heavy braking, extreme cornering ... - all situations that happen perhaps once in a while for me. And the times when I am looking to make rapid progress and take the line of least resistance - the RFTs don't play that much of a part in the equation.

We are not all F1 drivers that need to have that 100% 'feel' for the road. We are not people who drive the majority of the time at a speed and pace that requires 100% application 100% of the time. We do not drive in situations where fractions and micro-seconds make a difference every hour of everyday to us. We do not operate in an environment where driving dynamics play a large part of our daily drive...so why then the issue with RFTs? On a daily basis they cannot make such a difference to a car and I for one cannot determine if my vehicles were with (or without) them as when driving, they perform as I need/want them to.

OK so some RFts are better than other - but thats always been the way when it comes to tyres. But when we're driving at around 40%-60% ability [of both car and driver] why should the RFTs make such a difference and people be bitterly opposed to them? By not driving at the edge most of the time, we do not need that level of feedback and feel form them as 9 times out of 10, we're not driving in that manner. And the other times when we are...they are perfectly acceptable in terms of performance and feel. I believe that too many people are uneducated when it comes to driving - it is not simply about jumping in a car and setting off. How many people do we know have BMWs well...just because? How many people have BMWs and actually push them and drive them as they are designed the majority of time? How many people are actually educated drivers that understand the nuances of camber, alignment, dynamics of chassis and weight ...?

I get the impression that some no doubt do - but many others are simply jumping on the 'I hate RFTs' as it seems fashionable. With our average speeds around 35MPH in the city and perhaps 70MPH outside - these are not speeds that will trouble a Mondeo or A4...least of all a BMW...so why are we so at pains on the RFT issue? The BMWs at work have Goodyear RFTs fitted and they are more than adequate for the job that is expected of them and I would [respectfully] contend that they get more of a work out daily under a myriad of conditions than any private car; so if it works then how can people then talk about the evils of RFTs?

On my personal vehicle, I ditched the Crapstones and went with Michelin ZPs and they improved the feel and handling of the car no end - especially from cold and in the wet. Perhaps not to the extent as on my E46, but it is pretty much near enough IMHO and I really can;t see a handling issue with them.

So I end my post as I began it: I have not written this as a criticism of people or their abilities - I am merely talking in the general vernacular 'we' 'us' 'them' etc. and looking to spark a debate form the other side.

[bss325i]

I have an E46 330ci M-sport. When I bought it, unbeknown to me, it had runflats on the rear and non runflats on the front!!!

I have just had the wheels refurbed and took the oppurtunity to fit four new Falken 912's at the same time...What a difference they made to both the noise and the harsh ride.

I will never explore the limits of any tyre, but on a daily basis the difference is like chalk and cheese in my case, and I COULD tell the difference on my car.

True enough, but your car is not designed for RFTs; so if you had them fitted then the ride and handling of the car would no doubt be compromised noticeably - especially moreso if you had a mix of normal and RFT! By fitting the correct tyres all round, you returned your car to a state as it was meant to be; hence the 'chalk and cheese' difference you talk about. The E46 is NOT engineered with RFTs in mind.

Another post echoing what i've been saying..........

[oakey]

F*cking hell this is getting boring!

Speak for yourself...i find this discussion interesting!

Oh dear

[Kos]

barry

when he say "old" Ford focus, he means their previous fleet/company car prior to getting a RF equiped BMW company car.

wouldnt you be happy to swith from a FF to a BMW. as the guy says they dont care, they just love having a BMW.

Kos, i have driven all incarnations of ford Focus, not just old ones.

you're so engrosed in your quest to be right you are missing what the guy means by "old" . it was their "old" car now they have bmw. not litteraly an old focus, but their previous car.

[B7]

F*cking hell this is getting boring!

Speak for yourself...i find this discussion interesting!

Get a sense of humour FFS

[E39mad]

bss325i - I purposefully chose threads that had a variety of views to show that I am not died in the wool against these tyres - as I stated in a previous thread BMW and the tyre manufacturers are making the cars better almost as they learn but I suggest people (the one's that have a proper interest that is ) read all the links posted to get an overall picture rather than just pick the one that backs up your argument.

[sihooker]

F*cking hell this is getting boring!

Speak for yourself...i find this discussion interesting!

Get a sense of humour FFS

I've got a perfectly good one already, thank you.... and this thread is giving it a good stretch

[bss325i]

barry

when he say "old" Ford focus, he means their previous fleet/company car prior to getting a RF equiped BMW company car.

wouldnt you be happy to swith from a FF to a BMW. as the guy says they dont care, they just love having a BMW.

Kos, i have driven all incarnations of ford Focus, not just old ones.

you're so engrosed in your quest to be right you are missing what the guy means by "old" . it was their "old" car now they have bmw. not litteraly an old focus, but their previous car.

No Kos, i fully understood what he meant by saying "old focus", it was you who chirped up and
said "when he say "old" Ford focus, he means their previous fleet/company car prior to....." but thats beside the point.

There is no quest to be right as i have been right from the start of this thread.

The bottom line is that run flat tyres in general do not ruin handling and ride, wear funny or have limited availabilty.

End of.

[bss325i]

bss325i - I purposefully chose threads that had a variety of views to show that I am not died in the wool against these tyres - as I stated in a previous thread BMW and the tyre manufacturers are making the cars better almost as they learn but I suggest people (the one's that have a proper interest that is ) read all the links posted to get an overall picture rather than just pick the one that backs up your argument.

This is true. All i have sat out to do is quash the myth that ALL runflats are bad.

Someone pipes up and says run flats are shit, well no there not actually.

[E30BeemerLad]

you're all correct

[Kos]

There is no quest to be right as i have been right from the start of this thread.

The bottom line is that run flat tyres in general do not ruin handling and ride, wear funny or have limited availability.

End of.

don't be so arrogant on this barry, i know i make my self look like cun7 at times with my inflammatory comments but you are doing yourself no favours here.

i have seen dodgy wear characteristics from run flats on 2 cars which had full suspension geometry checks and were deemed perfect or was i dreaming that ?

RF according to many people affect the handling and ride, are you really able to dismiss other people opinions and findings on cars they own, they drive for ten of thousands of miles, which is bit more often than your quick test drive in and out of a workshop

there is not a big a selection available as non RF's and you have to admit that the bridgstones were limited in availability, simple yes or no will do. dont babble on about watchdog and crap roads fucking up wheels. again thats partly a bmw problem



no one is right, we just have opinions and you simply are denying us an opinion to express out views and thoughts, you are just dismissing them.

[Kos]

dont worry , baz and i will kiss and make up at Ace Cafe tonight

[daimlerman]

dont worry , baz and i will kiss and make up at Ace Cafe tonight

Really.......
Hope someone catches that on camara!

[B7]

dont worry , baz and i will kiss and make up at Ace Cafe tonight

Really.......
Hope someone catches that on camara!

It'll have to be a f*cking long lens, Barry ain't going!

[E30BeemerLad]

not got a puncture has he?

[Kos]

[bss325i]

don't be so arrogant on this barry, i know i make my self look like cun7 at times with my inflammatory comments but you are doing yourself no favours here.

Im not being arrogant at all, im just making a stand about something i know that im right on. I'm not one to back down.

i have seen dodgy wear characteristics from run flats on 2 cars which had full suspension geometry checks and were deemed perfect or was i dreaming that ?

2 cars! 2 cars isn't enough to say that they ware funny! Non RF's can ware funny too but does that mean that they ware funny!

RF according to many people affect the handling and ride, are you really able to dismiss other people opinions and findings on cars they own, they drive for ten of thousands of miles, which is bit more often than your quick test drive in and out of a workshop

A bit more than my quick test drive in and out of the workshop?!! Dont be so f*cking patronising! I have done countless miles on RF's in all different sizes and states of ware!

EVERY car that comes into the workshop has to have the tyres inspected and tread depths measured as part of a vehicle health check and they dont wear funny unless there is an underlying problem or the person drives it like and animal so the outer edges wear but that is exactly the same as normal tyres.

there is not a big a selection available as non RF's and you have to admit that the bridgstones were limited in availability, simple yes or no will do. dont babble on about watchdog and crap roads ******* up wheels. again thats partly a bmw problem

Kos, go back and read my posts properly, i have said that the availibilty of RF's isn't as good as non RF's BUT that doesn't make them hard to get or have limited availability.
Again, read my posts properly, it was stu that mentioned the watchdog program but i have comented on the poor state of our roads which incidently dont just affect RF's they can damage any wheel and tyre.

no one is right, we just have opinions and you simply are denying us an opinion to express out views and thoughts, you are just dismissing them.

The reason why i had to intervene with this thread is because a few people piped up and said RF's are shit, as in they are shit full stop and that is a load of bollocks!

Of course some people will not like them but that DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE ALL BAD!

I dont like jap cars but i dont go round saying all jap cars are shit!

[spook]

not got a puncture has he?

Ive just split my sides you coont

[bss325i]

Someones collecting some expensive frag tonight.

[Kos]

RF according to many people affect the handling and ride, are you really able to dismiss other people opinions and findings on cars they own, they drive for ten of thousands of miles, which is bit more often than your quick test drive in and out of a workshop

A bit more than my quick test drive in and out of the workshop?!! Dont be so f*cking patronising! I have done countless miles on RF's in all different sizes and states of ware!

EVERY car that comes into the workshop has to have the tyres inspected and tread depths measured as part of a vehicle health check and they dont wear funny unless there is an underlying problem or the person drives it like and animal so the outer edges wear but that is exactly the same as normal tyres.