Roundabouts and LSDs

[Chris]

- Assuming acceleration out of a corner (weight on the outside rear wheel) mildy moist concrete -

Open diff:
Inside wheel spins, less grip so outside wheel slides sideways,
If opposite lock applied well, car flattens, catches grip again and carries on forward.
If opposite lock applied and your not quick enough, drive swaps between wheels, fishtailing etc.
Holds on longer,
Will basically basically stop sliding when grip returns to the inside wheel (either slides far enough to flatten out or the front wheels get ahead and car flattens) But you have little say in when exactly.

Fresh LSD:
Inside wheel starts to spin and pulls the outside with it, rear steps sideways,
If opposite lock applied well car flattens out and all is good,
If opposite lock applied and your not quick enough, car flattens out and all is good,
Lets go sooner,
Can be balanced on the steering/throttle for much longer if wanted.

Welded Diff:
Both wheels spin up when the grip runs out, rear steps sideways,
Opposite lock applied will straighten it up depending on the amount.
Lets go sooner still,
As long as you keep the wheels spinning, the steering off line, and dont hit anything it will keep sliding.

Personally i think i prefer open.
Seems to have more overall grip, and still quite managable when i want to dick around.

Just in my experience, and not as a drifter, a racer, a hero or a hoon, just what i have dealt with as an average joe in average (ish) cars.

Chris

[chris_335]

yer man sounds like it is gunna be a weld and a open it's nice to have a choice
any one want LSD inners no crown wheel just the inners so you can put yours on and away you go

[e301988325i]

What do you want for them?

[NickTheDoctor]

My Old E30 325I Sport tech1 would not doughnut for anything if you started from standstill but if i carried out burnout 1st the diff locked up good and proper and you could have fun like this
This was not me Honest Mr Officer
http://www.youtube.com/user/redjimmyt#p ... Y5Ng6Joqbg

[Dave_M3]

You're obviously not man enough to have a welded diff, so don't!


But if you want to become GOOD at drifting, you'll take the step to have the diff welded, or buy a 2-way. An old worn out E30 LSD just will not cut it.

If you want to pop round a private roundabout sideways occasionally, then spend lots on an LSD that barely locks.


(I've driven my E30 with a welded diff for 2 years now, so know what it feels like, but I also know that if I WASN'T a drifter, there is no way I'd do it)

Or buy a cheap LSD and rebuild it to 40% and have the best of both worlds.

Oh yeah, and E30 LSDs are in effect 2ways in any case.




For a road car, a good LSD is what you need. welded diffs are fine but can get abit annoying if you want to drive the car properly as quick as you can.

If solely for drifting, a welded diff is the only way to go.



You can drift fine in the wet with open diffs even with something as low powered as a 316. You just have to watch it when your coming out of a slide so you won't end up fishtailing off into the distance or a wall.
Other thing its, no matter how hard you try drifting from a standstill or very low speeds is very difficult.

I used actually miss the open diff at times when I was going through roundabouts as I used enjoy the challenge and having to keep on my toes.

But after driving an E30 for a while without an LSD, I realise an LSD is so much better overall.

[Blitz]

S*** myself when I fish tailed in the wet after I went sideways. Loads of arm twirling. That was going at 20mph in a 316i!

[Dave_M3]

As already mentioned, the best mod you can do to an E30 to improve your drifting is an E36/E46 or Z3 rack.

Even with an LSD on its own, you'll still be doing loads of arm twirling.

[chris_335]

so lsd stops fish tailing

[Aberdean]

I had an LSD on my old car...I could crack doughnuts and slide with ease.

My last E36 328i (which I'm using as a doner to my E30) had the 2.93 open diff...I could go into a roundabout (not on public road) and flick the steering to upset the balance of the car and get it to slide...I could easily get 45 degrees out (my mates following in Golfs and BMW's looking in shock horror sometimes. I found that it didn't feel tight as it did with an LSD...another thing is the LSD in my old car was easier to get round corners fast too with more grip and feel. I found the open diff to be more loose when you don't want it to be on a spirited drive. I'd say open diff will drift but no where near as controlled or as tight as you could with an LSD. I earned a section 59 for drifting so I should know LOL just messing drive safe and enjoy the car and practice where its quiet like me and what I did.

Edit as above...when your sliding feather the thottle, its aleady broken out you don't need to redline it! Also learn weight transfer too, and use of the handbrake...it took me a good few months to master and even now i'm crap but practice and balls is what matters...i would drift initially at 15mph then 30 mph and so on...I'm not confessing to be good but I've tried and thats why we have RWD cars to enjoy...I don't condone reckless driving but I do enjoy a spirited drive as much as the next guy. Be safe guys

[chris_335]

I had an LSD on my old car...I could crack doughnuts and slide with ease.

My last E36 328i (which I'm using as a doner to my E30) had the 2.93 open diff...I could go into a roundabout (not on public road) and flick the steering to upset the balance of the car and get it to slide...I could easily get 45 degrees out (my mates following in Golfs and BMW's looking in shock horror sometimes. I found that it didn't feel tight as it did with an LSD...another thing is the LSD in my old car was easier to get round corners fast too with more grip and feel. I found the open diff to be more loose when you don't want it to be on a spirited drive. I'd say open diff will drift but no where near as controlled or as tight as you could with an LSD. I earned a section 59 for drifting so I should know LOL just messing drive safe and enjoy the car and practice where its quiet like me and what I did.

Edit as above...when your sliding feather the thottle, its aleady broken out you don't need to redline it! Also learn weight transfer too, and use of the handbrake...it took me a good few months to master and even now i'm crap but practice and balls is what matters...i would drift initially at 15mph then 30 mph and so on...I'm not confessing to be good but I've tried and thats why we have RWD cars to enjoy...I don't condone reckless driving but I do enjoy a spirited drive as much as the next guy. Be safe guys

well what sort of dif do you think we should be using and where whould be the best place to start - (public)

[Bob_S]

open diffs for me.. all you welded diff cocks just look like poofs with dodgy tyres and mig spec's! 200+ horseys and you don't need a diff.. as for track action I'm a firm believer that you don't really need one either

[chris_335]

slag

[chris_335]

so dose lsd stop fish tail

[Dave_M3]

It does stop fish-tailing to an extent but if you drive it like an idiot, it'll still send you flying off the road in the wrong direction if you don't correct a slide properly.

an LSD just makes slides more controllable, be it a slight slide out of a junction, catching the tail when pressing on or just being silly and drifting all the way around corners or fishtailing in 3rd gear.

Then a welded diff just makes the car drive like shit just for the rare occasions it might be predictable through a corner when the back steps out (which it more than likely will even if you don't really want to do it)


LSD is still worth having in my opinion as it just makes the car better to drive.

[Ziggy]

Why would you not have an LSD? Open diffs are rubbish - BMW didn't offer the LSD as an upgrade purely so that the rude boys could hone their diffin' skillz.

[chris_335]

true me lsd is mine not for sale no more

[320ise]

i have always been scared really of hurting myself or others or my car! by messing on public roads, so i would really not try it there as cctv etc you will get cought out at some point and if it went wrong and you hit something/one its not a nice thought!

go to oulten park drift day and get a full day of good clean fun i went as a novice and feel i did ok and am now hooked and whatever fun you have had on the roads it wont touch a propper organised event.

and you will get to understand what you and the car is capable of.

not having a go or ewt if you wanna mess on the roads then its you that has to deal with the results of it (good or bad)

my boring 2p!

[chris_335]

point i dnt wanna chance it going to run open on road and 100% on the track keep the fun in the right place and be able to show off without hurting any one (me-or my e30)

[Dave_M3]

Agree to that.

messing on the roads can be fun when the right opportunity presents itself but its nowhere near as fun as on the track as you aren't holding back that little bit that you are on the road because of looking over your shoulder or keeping alittle left in the tank if it gets out of hand.

[chris_335]

keep your time. open diff's can drift just takes a bin of rain o we live in britan and one day in the year run 100% LOCK to pop to the shp's there is a few day's when the road is dry and the sun is out alll you can think about is warm tyers and slipping clutches. over fuleing and lunch fuck aint bad sorry type-r kicked ya ass

[320ise]

i do agree that at the right time and place you can get away with it but i tend not to do it my self.

[chris_335]

its all good fun dont lie showing off is the best thing you can ever do and when ya showing off old school it just look's. well keeping ya car out of nick and 6 poits a time for dangrus driveing thnk i will run open on the road

[chris_335]

ya wanna have fun in a e30 they way to do it is http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... highlight=
3.5 m30 lump About 215bhp more than a m3. on a nice lsd and set of tec-1 skirts because there there picked up only. the lot for £200

[yeah_mick]

weld it and act the cock in toys r us

as seen in this video by some idiots.

[Boyraceruk]

Trust me, if you're not constantly up for the drift you don't want a welder. And this is coming from someone who ran a welder on their daily until it lunched itself a couple of weeks ago. Having said that if you're going to try to get the back end out on every quiet roundabout you really don't want to be doing it on an open diff, since having the open diff in I had a little play and nearly lost it. It breaks away much faster and you can't control the angle with the throttle, initial entry speed determines just about everything. If I had the money I'd run a 40% LSD and accept the compromise.

But it still pisses me off that in some peoples' eyes having a welder makes (made?) me an irresponsible hooligan. I've been there and done that, I just like having a laugh at low speeds and scaring chavs in econoboxes occasionally. No place to drive fast enough to enjoy the handling an E30 is capable of anyway, so why not drive it sideways?

I'm not a drifter, I'm a power-over poser.

[chris_335]

power over poser sounds about right think im gunna have a play as i have a 28% locker a weld and a open sat about doing note.