Sport Restoration... quick question.

[Phatz]

Right guys, after spending some time stripping down my beloved Sport, I thought I'd share my findings with you all.

I've had the car for 3 years now. I've used it as a daily during this time, keeping it clean and doing all the servicing and maintenance myself. It is generally a very clean Sport and in good condition, but a while ago I replaced the front inner arch covers and discovered a huge chunk of rusty wing behind them. Since then I've known the entire kit would have to come off and any issues be dealt with.

Here she is in more happier times.



Now I've got this as a daily run about and for work.



So, with a day off work and despite the occasional rain showers, I set about stripping out the interior and boot.







Then the dash came out along with the boot interior. This revealed a nasty near side inner arch.... ARRGGHH!!!





Nasty hole there.



Another nasty hole here too, but I already knew about this.



However this inner arch is okay.... Well except for the hole next to it.



Under the battery tray is solid.




The next day came the task of removing the side skirts and pods along with the roof lining to reveal the potential horrors...... and sure enough, my worst fears were confirmed.





Hmmm.... New wings me thinks.





Near side rear arch not bad....



Offside arch.....bad...



Sills don't have any holes, but bad surface rust by the looks.



Now for the sunroof to come out and headlining. My roof skin has a few rust patches, but the sun roof tray itself was suprisingly sound.







Bit of rust at the back there and two small bubbles on the top of the roof behind the sunroof.



But the tray is good by the looks of it.





So these are my findings so far. Apologies for the poor picture quality, I'll get some better pics up with my camara soon.

Now a bit about the history of this car. It came from Harringtons BMW in West Sussex (don't think they exist anymore!) and it spent most of it's life in Brighton, so I'm really not surprised at the state of the bodywork what with all the salt.

So far I can see it will need the following, and I have yet to check the state of the bulk head.

New wings
Sills
Rear panel
Jacking points
One inner arch
Roof repair and other patching in jobs

I can already accept that this is going to be a full blown restoration. Cuurently the car is modified with Alpina reps, lowered 60mm and has been de-badged and along the way I'd like to add change these back to orginal items, perhaps keeping it slightly lowered. Also I've now got all the parts to build a 2.8 M20, but that will come later.

What I'd like to know from you chaps is whether or not I should be considering a re-shell at this point. Is there too much work on this current shell to warrant all the effort and money? I'll certainly need to find a skilled welder if I channel my efforts into this shell.

Comment welcome.

[nickso]

just the usual places for a sport. could be pricey to sort properly.

check the bulkhead behind the glovebox and the bulkhead/bottom of the heater box where the elephants trunk comes out(above and left of the steering column inside), inside and outside can rot badly. these areas may make up your mind to reshell as they are almost impossible to repair properly if they are really bad IMO. i only just caught mine in time but i think the heater box will come back to haunt me in a few years.

[fuzzy]

ive seen much worse than that repaired.

[Speedtouch]

My 1989 F-reg Tech 2 Sport was as bad, slightly worse in fact, as the sills had huge holes below the A-pillars, and even holes behind the rear number plate It too was a seaside car originally, having been purchased and used in Weston-Super-Mare. I intended to restore it, but an accident wrote it off.

Good luck with sorting yours out...

[Phatz]

Thanks Nickso, I'm planning on lumping the engine out so will check the state of the bulkhead then. Also need to finish stripping the loom and heater box out to be able to fully inspect things.

[bmwe30mtech]

Nice to see you have started this Phatz

Just a few things i noticed

I think the sills will be rusted all the way through, once you start grinding that rust back sadly, it looks fairly pitted.

The sunroof tray will need to be removed to tackle the rust in there, and it would be a shame not to put a new one in and have it rust your roof out. There are only 2 of these trays left, in Germany! I think this is the only way to tackle that roof.

Check carefully in the gap between the inner arches and the outer arches, get a torch in there.

Also remove the plastic on the rear offside arch (the bit to stop the battery being shorted onto the body), they often rust behind there also.

Best of luck with it, it will be great when its done. Diamond black is the best E30 colour in my opinion, followed by dolphin.

Look forward to more pics

Paul

[josh-hocking]

i would check the bulkhead before you start any welding etc.....

[Phatz]

Thanks for the comments guys. I think I final decision will be made once the rest of the car is stripped down.

With regards to a re-shell, if I were to go down this route, how difficult is it to swap the scuttle panels over so as to maintain the correct VIN number? The panel on my car seems to be rust free. I've heard doing this is frowned upon though due to legality, but I can't see an issue as no car will be a ringer.

[bmwe30mtech]

You don't need to swap the whole scuttle, just cut out the bit in the middle with the VIN. Its easy for a good bodyshop, and wont show at all if they do it properly.

[Jay07]

Just wanted to say good luck with the project mate!! Keep the pics coming so we can follow your progress!

[Phatz]

Cheers fellas. Back to work tomorrow and away for a week from Thursday so there won't be any further progress until then. Will keep you all updated as I go along though.

[fourmotion]

lovely car mate- and to think it was hiding that amount of rust! Good luck with the build

[bss325i]

That sunroof tray need replacing. They place they rot mainly is where they are bonded to the roof skin. You can see in your pic that the tray is rusting in that place on the nearside.

If you have rust on the roof skin then its also a new roof skin as well. Roof skins cannot be patched as heat from welding will distort the panel.

A compete roof skin and sunroof tray assembly can be bought from BMW and i would say you need one for a neat repair. Any patch work will be gash and only come back before to long.

[Nath325i]

Good luck with the car dude. I recently stripped my sport down to restore and found its totally F**cked. I plan to reshell it but finding a tidy pre facelift car at a reasonable price is proving harder to find than i thought.

[nickso]

Thanks Nickso, I'm planning on lumping the engine out so will check the state of the bulkhead then. Also need to finish stripping the loom and heater box out to be able to fully inspect things.

no need to take the engine out to check. just remove the glovebox(two nuts and a couple of plastic pins) look behind the orange relays and white accessory socket that are stuck up behind the dash and be ready for a stiff drink. otherwise gently push the bulkhead from inside the nearside inner wing, any crusty movement and that stiff drink may be required again.

the other side of the heater box can be checked by either removing the cover plate in the engine bay or checking up behind the dash between the heater plastics and the steering column.

this is what mine looked like on both locations,

[Phatz]

Right, quick update regarding the bulkhead. Removed the carpet and other bits behind the glovebox and guess what?... There has already been a repair there! Where is that stiff drink Nickso?
Otherwise doesn't look too bad but as I said before I'm going to finish stripping all parts down and getting the engine out (it's coming out anyway for a fresh engine) before a final inspection and assessment. I'll get some better photos up soon when work continues.

As far as the roof goes, the opinion on here is that a new tray and skin is the only answer. I'll need to get the tray down to have a better look, but if I'm honest the thought of this repair does make me s**t myself a bit as I've heard it's a nightmare.

Would I be insane trying to save this shell????

[bmwe30mtech]

Replied to your pm Martin

[ricey46]

....Would I be insane trying to save this shell????

Not at all, go for it, mine is worse!!lol. Will look ace when finished, just think of the finished article. that'll keep you going, it does with me.....

[bss325i]

Right, quick update regarding the bulkhead. Removed the carpet and other bits behind the glovebox and guess what?... There has already been a repair there! Where is that stiff drink Nickso?
Otherwise doesn't look too bad but as I said before I'm going to finish stripping all parts down and getting the engine out (it's coming out anyway for a fresh engine) before a final inspection and assessment. I'll get some better photos up soon when work continues.

As far as the roof goes, the opinion on here is that a new tray and skin is the only answer. I'll need to get the tray down to have a better look, but if I'm honest the thought of this repair does make me s**t myself a bit as I've heard it's a nightmare.

Would I be insane trying to save this shell????

People have saved far worse!

Replacing a compete roof skin and tray assembly isn't that hard, any competant panel beater will be able to do it. The only bit that may stump that lesser skilled beaters is the brazed joins at the top of the A and C pillars.

[Chase007]

Good luck here mate will be watching to learn from you Cheers

[suchy]

I've seen WAAAAAY worse turned into show winning cars. Obviously depends on whether the car is a keeper and if you want to sink the time/effort/££ into a project. Personally if I had the funds I'd love to do a full resto on mine (I don't have the skills so it would be v.costly). Shame not to though as your shell really isn't that bad

[Phatz]

Thanks to all for their encouragement. Still undecided on what route to take, but one way or another this car WILL be saved. Hearing that my shell "isn't that bad" does make me feel a lot better though....

Will update this thread in a couple of weeks as I'm off out the country tomorrow.

Cheers all for your responses.

[On_a_Roll]

It's not that bad and I think it's always better to keep the original shell and save it for originality's sake.

I have a brand new sunroof tray if you need it, you can have it for half BMW retail. There are not many left at BMW HQ let alone UK. The roof repair will be costly for a full roof skin - a localized repair would be nice but is usually more of a pain to execute than a clean replacement - you don't ever want to do the job again if you see what I mean.

See here:

http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthrea ... royalratch

[On_a_Roll]

By the way, full roof skin repair about £1000 all in at a top place. The skin itself £400 after heavy BMW discount but those are 2007 prices and you know how volatile BMW's parts pricing is, especially retro parts - I think the E30 has officially been shifted into their 'Mobile Tradition' historical catalogue for parts too - cue price trebling on everything!

[Phatz]

On_a_Roll, you have pm!

This thread will be updated by myself very soon with a bit of luck (and time!)

[On_a_Roll]

As far as the roof goes, the opinion on here is that a new tray and skin is the only answer. I'll need to get the tray down to have a better look, but if I'm honest the thought of this repair does make me s**t myself a bit as I've heard it's a nightmare.

By the way, the new roofskin comes WITH a sunroof tray bonded in already - Hence my spare tray lol!

You'll easily be into £2,000 labour and parts to sort that all out before any paint. Your re-shell question now becomes relevant but let me ask you this - how long/far/much are you willing to wait/go/pay for a mint 2-Door sunroof shell? Because they are few and far between and if you do the job on yours you'll know it's 110% for sure.

In any case, the biggest issue is trusted quality work. I would take it upto the zoner called Beardymatt in Newcastle and if those northern animals don't eat you alive then his work is peerless. I can also recommend Townley Panel & Paint in Essex also. Also check out Simon13's 2-Door Alpina Resto as he had the exact same issue.

A lot of people take this moment to fit a non-sunroof skin because it's lighter/stiffer/cheaper/rust-prooferer and they can shave precious seconds off their lap times

[Phatz]

Right guys, some updating of my resto thread is in order.

After several months of doing nothing with the sport (except thinking about it), I managed to save some funds to channel into some new and replacment parts. I spent the autumn and winter months searching and colating bits that I need and I now have a huge stash of bits.

As for the car, well the engine came out during the summer....





I'm pretty much 100% clear in my head with where I want to go with this. This will be a full blown restoration and I WILL be saving this shell. I've spoken to various people about this and decided that this the way to go. What a want to gain out of this project is the satisfaction of saving my beloved E30, a car which I am very attached to I must admit.
I want a specced up, ultra clean sport that I can use on nice days and take to shows.

Anyway, this how she looks now. Still the odd loom to remove and brake assembly etc...







As you can see she is now sitting on 15' BBS. These will receive a refurb and new tyres towards the end of the project. And what is that sitting on the roof you ask?... Thats right, a brand new BMW roofskin complete with new sunroof tray bonded in. I've also acquired new BMW rear quarter panels.









More pics of parts on the way later...

[Simon]

Nice update, keep them coming.

[Phatz]

Nice update, keep them coming.

Will do mate.

[SHAZ325iSPORT]

veru good and intrestring restoration mate,keeping my eye on this one.

[Low_E30]

Good to see you going all out to save your car....

With all those lovely genuine panels, whats going to make or break this project is your choice in which bodyshop you entrust to carry out the repairs & paint.... Make sure you do your research in this department.

Should look stunning when all done...

[DanThe]

Much respect for repairing this, I wouldnt have hesitated at cut and shutting the chassis No into a better shell!
Just make sure the bodyshop is competent enough and you will have a great car at the end

[bmwe30mtech]

Good work, its nice to see you doing it properly.

As said, you need to get a very good body shop to do the repairs, or the new panels could start to rust out at the seams in a few years time. I am guessing you will be getting the joins brazed, but any joins which are not should be properly 'sealed in' on the insides of the welds.

Make sure they spray the inside of the sunroof tray well also, something which BMW did not do well! Then pack it with waxoyl between the skin and the tray.

Are you going to replace the outer of the inner arches also?

I look forward to seing this progress.

[/// KAMI]

looking good it should look like kierans on here....keep up the hard work.

[Phatz]

Some more new part pics.

New BMW sills.


New rear panel, still wrapped.


New rear turrets. I also have new rear inner arches, but these aren't pictured




And of course my mountain of other parts, bits and pieces. I wouldn't usually store parts in this manner, but space is limited unfortunately. Note the highback recaros.






All the body panels came courtesy of C3 BMW in Crystal Palace. Good blokes and a bit cheaper than the stealers too.