Track Car Build - which car

[LondonTom]

I've recently got rid of my sport and have decided I'm going to build a car for track days in the new year, but before I do am I better off with a 318is or 325 - initial budget for car is circa £1000 so obviously not going to be a sport.

I've set aside another £2000 for the build - nothing performance wise, just brakes, suspension, lsd and cage.

Alternatively, I've seen a car running an m52, albeit to a decent spec its as a road car and would take up all my budget in buying it.

Any advice from anyone who has experience with the above would be useful.

Thanks Tom

[toadster987]

Better starting with a 325 Id say for power ,suspension & brakes etc and possibly LSD

[LondonTom]

Better starting with a 325 Id say for power ,suspension & brakes etc and possibly LSD

I thought the suspension and brakes are the same on 325's and 318is' - as for an lsd only likely to come on a sport which I cant afford.

[MarkT]

You should be able to pick up a 325i with an LSD for about 1200-1500 for a tidy one. Quite often the LSD's were retrofitted or specified from the factory, just need to hunt around. Best thing to do is find the tidyest shell possible.

[LondonTom]

You should be able to pick up a 325i with an LSD for about 1200-1500 for a tidy one. Quite often the LSD's were retrofitted or specified from the factory, just need to hunt around. Best thing to do is find the tidyest shell possible.

Cheers mate - wpuld you say the 325 is a better starting point then?

[MarkT]

TBH it depends upon preference. There is much of a muchness about the 325 vs. IS battle. I prefer the sound of the straight six but others prefer the revy charactoristics of the 1.8.

Personally I think the 1.8iS is a little undersized, but it is supposed to be a better handling car due to weight distribution.

Are you going to be looking for more power later on and how do you want to get it?

[E30ToRing]

Having seen a number of crashes on track outings, particularly at the Nurburgring, I would go for a sound 325i and add decent suspension, brakes and a rollcage, given the budget. There is 'sufficient' power and you can focus on technique (e.g. carrying momentum) in relative safety.

[LondonTom]

TBH it depends upon preference. There is much of a muchness about the 325 vs. IS battle. I prefer the sound of the straight six but others prefer the revy charactoristics of the 1.8.

Personally I think the 1.8iS is a little undersized, but it is supposed to be a better handling car due to weight distribution.

Are you going to be looking for more power later on and how do you want to get it?

I will do eventually - most likely an s14.

I know what you mean about the m20 noise, I loved my sport!!

The car will be used mostly at Brands.

[LondonTom]

Having seen a number of crashes on track outings, particularly at the Nurburgring, I would go for a sound 325i and add decent suspension, brakes and a rollcage, given the budget. There is 'sufficient' power and you can focus on technique (e.g. carrying momentum) in relative safety.

Exactly what I said in my original post - I've built a few cars before.

I am wanting advice on engines.

Cheers

[MarkT]

If your eventually going to go S14 then I'd say to go for another 4 pot mate. Then any chassis/development work you do will be relative to future engine choise... Or you could turbo/supercharge an m42. Good starting point, steel crank and rods. Solid lifters and double valve springs IIRC. All you'd really need is some low comp pistons, some head studs and an MLS headgasket then associated turbo schizit. Should think over 300bhp's available

[LondonTom]

If your eventually going to go S14 then I'd say to go for another 4 pot mate. Then any chassis/development work you do will be relative to future engine choise... Or you could turbo/supercharge an m42. Good starting point, steel crank and rods. Solid lifters and double valve springs IIRC. All you'd really need is some low comp pistons, some head studs and an MLS headgasket then associated turbo schizit. Should think over 300bhp's available

Cheers Mark.

I think I'd rather uprate to an s14 as it'd be good reliable power in standard form, circa 200bhp is more than enough for me.

Whats your thoughts on the m52 route, as I see you're building one.

[MarkT]

Bit heavy lol alloy block though so not as bad as an M50 with iron block.

TBH i'm turboing mine good power is available from stock internals, which is why I'm using it. I think danthe's got about 240bhp ish out of his m50.52 hybrid basically a 2.8 with a set of cams and a few other bits and peices.

A lot cheaper to go for than the S14. Looking at 1500 for a dubious one to 3000 for one with some decent history. Then you might need a rebuild etc.

[N00b]

Bit heavy lol alloy block though so not as bad as an M50 with iron block.

TBH i'm turboing mine good power is available from stock internals, which is why I'm using it. I think danthe's got about 240bhp ish out of his m50.52 hybrid basically a 2.8 with a set of cams and a few other bits and peices.

A lot cheaper to go for than the S14. Looking at 1500 for a dubious one to 3000 for one with some decent history. Then you might need a rebuild etc.

What's the difference in weight (fully dressed) between the S14 and M52? Is it really that much?

[MarkT]

I don't think it's a great deal of weight, just weight distribution

[LondonTom]

Bit heavy lol alloy block though so not as bad as an M50 with iron block.

TBH i'm turboing mine good power is available from stock internals, which is why I'm using it. I think danthe's got about 240bhp ish out of his m50.52 hybrid basically a 2.8 with a set of cams and a few other bits and peices.

A lot cheaper to go for than the S14. Looking at 1500 for a dubious one to 3000 for one with some decent history. Then you might need a rebuild etc.

I'd more than likely rebuild it, unless it'd been done recently. Although I might look at duratecs as the only expensive part is getting them running and driving, unlike an s14 if it went bang.

[MarkT]

Now there's a thought. Duratecs are a cracking engine. 2.3 litres the one to go for. Should easily see 240+ on a set of cams and ITB's.

How about a honda s2000 lump

[e21Jason]

I own a race preped e21 a track preped and a stock e36m3 with your 3k budget i would start with an e36m3 or 328 strip it and play

a s14 costs a lot of dosh budget 4-5k if you want a fresh reliable engine

if you want the cage and supension upgrades consider a compact as a base car and I second the idea of an s2000 setup

Jason

[LondonTom]

I own a race preped e21 a track preped and a stock e36m3 with your 3k budget i would start with an e36m3 or 328 strip it and play

a s14 costs a lot of dosh budget 4-5k if you want a fresh reliable engine

if you want the cage and supension upgrades consider a compact as a base car and I second the idea of an s2000 setup

Jason

Cheers Jason.

Your E21 looks pretty sorted.

Not a fan of e36's at all - I want to build something as close to my mk1 escort as possible, plus the fact I've always liked e30's!

S2000 sounds like a good shout, only biased to the duratec with my ford background - just so happens my dad's friend own a large chain of scrap yards so will look into it.

[MarkT]

The only potential problem with the s2000 lump is that it really is quite tall. When they put them into MK2 escorts etc they dry sump them to allow a little more space. But 240bhp out of the box and 280 on a set of ITB's, plus they're ultra reliable

[LondonTom]

The only potential problem with the s2000 lump is that it really is quite tall. When they put them into MK2 escorts etc they dry sump them to allow a little more space. But 240bhp out of the box and 280 on a set of ITB's, plus they're ultra reliable

Thank again Mark - right I'm off to find a decent 318is.

Does anyone have a link to a duratec or s2000 build?

[Screacher]

I have a trackday E30. It started life as an early non-sunroof 316



Fully stripped and rebuilt from the ground up with a M20B25 engine, LSD, Gaz coilovers, welded in cage etc. Had it built professionally, so more than your budget, but you could probably do it in stages and be more selective on the spec. Putting the M20B25 in is relatively easy as it uses the same loom as the 4-pot.

Front brakes are standard 325 calipers with vented & grooved discs but with far harder pads (Pagid RS29s in this case). Rear brakes are 325 discs, calipers and pads - they don't do much of the stopping!

After 5 weeks from ourchasing the shell, it looked like this:



And a few days later, it was doing this:



If I was starting with a smaller budget, I'd go for a sound shell, strip it, uprate the brakes and suspension and have some fun. Whilst doing that, get an M20B25 and get that sorted. Ours hasn't had much done (skim and valve regrind) and decent induction and exhaust and it pushes out circa 190BHP - plenty to be getting on with!

Whatever you do, you're bound to have some fun. Enjoy it!

[LondonTom]

I have a trackday E30. It started life as an early non-sunroof 316



Fully stripped and rebuilt from the ground up with a M20B25 engine, LSD, Gaz coilovers, welded in cage etc. Had it built professionally, so more than your budget, but you could probably do it in stages and be more selective on the spec. Putting the M20B25 in is relatively easy as it uses the same loom as the 4-pot.

Front brakes are standard 325 calipers with vented & grooved discs but with far harder pads (Pagid RS29s in this case). Rear brakes are 325 discs, calipers and pads - they don't do much of the stopping!

After 5 weeks from ourchasing the shell, it looked like this:



And a few days later, it was doing this:



If I was starting with a smaller budget, I'd go for a sound shell, strip it, uprate the brakes and suspension and have some fun. Whilst doing that, get an M20B25 and get that sorted. Ours hasn't had much done (skim and valve regrind) and decent induction and exhaust and it pushes out circa 190BHP - plenty to be getting on with!

Whatever you do, you're bound to have some fun. Enjoy it!

Top job mate, you certainly dont hang about!

Before I do anything engine wise I'll be sorting the suspension and brakes.

Just been looking at duratecs, not any real power gains to be had over an m20, but will redline over 8000rpm still in 2.0 litre form.

A 2.3's seem quite pricey to buy in standard fordm which defeats my reason for going the duratec route.

[Screacher]

Top job mate, you certainly dont hang about!

As I said, it was done professionally so I can't claim any kudos for the build (other than paying for it!).

[MarkT]

Top job mate, you certainly dont hang about!

Before I do anything engine wise I'll be sorting the suspension and brakes.

Just been looking at duratecs, not any real power gains to be had over an m20, but will redline over 8000rpm still in 2.0 litre form.

A 2.3's seem quite pricey to buy in standard fordm which defeats my reason for going the duratec route.

I think that the 318is is prob one of the better routes for you to go down.. In all fairness it should be a faily tunable little engine.

[rix313]

What steering wheel is that?

[LondonTom]

Looks like an omp to me.

Now I've got to find myself a decent 'is'.

[MarkT]

I went to have a look at on on pistonheads in surry. Had astronomical miles on the clock 200k+, was tidy in terms of body work and trim etc. only thing that let it down is that there was some residue around the filler cap. I didn't check if it was breathing out of the dipstick tube though. I'll PM a link to you

[LondonTom]

I went to have a look at on on pistonheads in surry. Had astronomical miles on the clock 200k+, was tidy in terms of body work and trim etc. only thing that let it down is that there was some residue around the filler cap. I didn't check if it was breathing out of the dipstick tube though. I'll PM a link to you

Cheers man

[UweM3]

Now there's a thought. Duratecs are a cracking engine. 2.3 litres the one to go for. Should easily see 240+ on a set of cams and ITB's.

How about a honda s2000 lump

+1 for the Duratec.
+1 for the S2000, but this is going to get pricey again. Complete engines are not cheap secondhand.

-1 (and this is a big minus) for the S14. Unless you have deep pockets.

[MarkT]

There's an engine and box (s2000) for about 1500 on pistonheads ATM

[Screacher]

Looks like an omp to me.

Now I've got to find myself a decent 'is'.

I believe it is - or a replica. It feels comfortable to use, but the black rubs off on your hands when driving. Not an issue on track when wearing racing gloves, but a pain when driving on the road as I'm not into wearing gloves for road use.

[rix313]

Looks like an omp to me.

Now I've got to find myself a decent 'is'.

I believe it is - or a replica. It feels comfortable to use, but the black rubs off on your hands when driving. Not an issue on track when wearing racing gloves, but a pain when driving on the road as I'm not into wearing gloves for road use.

Looking at getting a steering wheel like this for mine but there are so many dunno what to get

[UweM3]

keep in mind with steering wheels:
suede wheel and suede gloves = good grip
suede wheel and no gloves = black hands (and after a few month a shiny wheel)

but given the low price of the OMP or Sparco wheels, one can replace them when the suede has worn off without loosing a fortune.

PS gloss leather wheel and gloves = bad grip

[LondonTom]

Now there's a thought. Duratecs are a cracking engine. 2.3 litres the one to go for. Should easily see 240+ on a set of cams and ITB's.

How about a honda s2000 lump

+1 for the Duratec.
+1 for the S2000, but this is going to get pricey again. Complete engines are not cheap secondhand.

-1 (and this is a big minus) for the S14. Unless you have deep pockets.

http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread. ... ht=duratec

Duratec arent that cheap in comparison! Also there's issues with the bellhousing aswell, aparently it the only ford block not to use their standard bolt pattern.

As for the steering wheels....go old skool and get a springalex!

[billgatese30]

In fairness though, that Duratec has an £800 ECU included, and has already been dry sumped. It is freshly built (professionally which will increase the cost) and its ready to go. I have seen S14's go for not alot less that have over 100k miles on them.