Help with my Trackday Touring

[bumhole]

Hi dudes, I was hoping you guys would be able to help me decide what to start changing first with my car. It's a touring with an m50 2.5l e34 gearbox and e34 lsd.

It has got some Hottuning ebay suspension which has surprised me, I thought it would be utter rubbish, but is actually not too bad. I ripped all the copper brake lines out and but in braided ones, racing blue fluid.

I rebushed the back end with standard bushes all round and changed the arb links for standard new ones. It's got standard mintex pads and cheap maxxis road tyres.

Me and a mate have done two airfield trackdays and i absolutely love it.

I would like to improve braking because half way through the day the brakes pretty much die and we sometimes don't have enough room to slow down into a corner!

I would also like to stop the excessive body roll and hideous understeer.

Ive not got loads of money so i'd like to do the most important things first, but it's going to be well into next year before it gets another outing so there will be time to save up.

At the minute it feels like we are just turning up and hoping for the best. Others are checking tyre pressures and the like. Do tyre pressures matter with shite tyres?

Any advice would be really appreciated cheers Jody

[MarkT]

Stickyer front tyres? Will improve braking and turn in. Also some mintex 1155 pads work well too. Used a set over at the ring and had few fade problems. A set of sport antiroll bars would help the stability issues and IIRC if specced right can improve turn in too, but on track stiffer springs are recommended.

[handpaper]

Better brake pads are what you need first. Mintex 1155 are OK, 1166 would be better. Have a search in this forum for other options, there are many

Understeer can be driven around to some extent; get all your braking done before turning the wheel and power through the corner.
Tourings already have the thickest rear ARB and the second thickest front supplied by BMW; you can stiffen the front about 25% if you want.
What you do next depends on the use the car will see; if you're still using it on the road a lot you won't be able to go too extreme with suspension/weight reduction/tyres.

Tyre pressures always matter. Road tyres used on track tend to overheat and fall apart, you can mitigate this by running higher pressures, but they must be measured with the tyres hot (which is why you see them checked so much ).
38-40 psi has been mentioned as a starting point, but YMMV

[bumhole]

Thanks for the advice. I think maybe part of the problem with the understeer is the fact it's an airfield! It gets to the point where you don't ease up any into the corner cos you know you can run wide on the exit. Lazy track driving if there is such a thing!
It's stripped as much as I can do, I only use it on the road to go to the Chinese, if that.
I bet I'm way out with the tyre pressures, I'll definately check them next time.
I was thinking about swapping The pads for yellowstuff ones as from what I have read there are only a few people not liking them?
I saw a guy with a touring who welded in a steel brace tube across the rear suspension turrets, would that be worth it??? It had plates at each end to strengthen the welding area too.
Cheers

[handpaper]

Thanks for the advice. I think maybe part of the problem with the understeer is the fact it's an airfield! It gets to the point where you don't ease up any into the corner cos you know you can run wide on the exit. Lazy track driving if there is such a thing!
It's stripped as much as I can do, I only use it on the road to go to the Chinese, if that.
I bet I'm way out with the tyre pressures, I'll definately check them next time.
I was thinking about swapping The pads for yellowstuff ones as from what I have read there are only a few people not liking them?
I saw a guy with a touring who welded in a steel brace tube across the rear suspension turrets, would that be worth it??? It had plates at each end to strengthen the welding area too.
Cheers

If it's (almost) a dedicated track car, coilover suspension is the only way to go. You simply cannot get stiff enough springs in OE fitment on the front; on the rear you can use the OE spring perch with an adaptor, but it's not the best solution (IMHO).
Check some of the coilover threads in this forum for ideas on spring rates etc.

Proper trackday tyres will help, too. It's not all about the increased grip, the rubber compounds are different and handle higher stresses and temperatures better.

Quite a few people here and elsewhere seem to have something against EBC pads. I haven't bought any since I managed to fade a set of Greenstuff on the road, but others swear by Red- and Yellowstuff. I have been pleased with Mintex 1166, Pagid RS29 and Hawk HT-10, but none of these are cheap

The rear brace is good for attaching harness straps (if a little far back), otherwise it's useless. Unlike the front top mounts, the rears don't see any side loads, so bracing against them is pointless.

[Alburglar]

Agreed as above. But fit an e36 or z3 rack. it makes load of difference. Plus here are the things people forget to do:
Polybush everything! - although you have new rubber in alot of places so you can probably give that a miss apart from, if it's lowered you need eccentric front arm bushes. Welding new brackets on to rear beam is required if you want tyres to wear evenly at the back too, although you can get eccentric rear arm bushes that rectify this too, but you need to drill a locating hole in them and put a machine screw through outer bush into inner bush to stop them from spinning once setup. - I still need to do this.
Put new oil in your gearbox or it will clunk when it gets warm on track!
Make sure you have proper LSD oil in your LSD difff or it will die. I can recommend Castrol SAF-XJ 75w-140 fully synthetic. -it was designed especially for the BMW LSD.
An electric fan is a good idea, although i haven't done it yet.
Plus, I like ferodo ds2500 pads for good comprimise tack/road, but very dusty. I am on -40mm eibach springs and standard boge dampers as It is my daily driver too and can hit 9mins 30 on the ring, when I've got my brave pants on, so they can't be that bad can they?
Hope this helps

[Alburglar]

As for tyre pressure - 26 at the front and 28 at the back is always a good starter on mine, But I'm a 4pot. I just check them when warm to stop them from creeping up

[bumhole]

Thanks for all the advice, the only thing I'm not sure about is the eccentric bushes? I think I read somewhere about m3 bushes being eccentric? Are they the big round ones in the control arms with the holes in? I would love to change for coilovers but havnt got that kind of dollar kicking about unfortunately. I've been Reading about getting some more camber on the front with those plates from RPM. That are pretty pricey though, just wondering if anyone thought they were worth it?

[N00b]

Thanks for all the advice, the only thing I'm not sure about is the eccentric bushes? I think I read somewhere about m3 bushes being eccentric? Are they the big round ones in the control arms with the holes in? I would love to change for coilovers but havnt got that kind of dollar kicking about unfortunately. I've been Reading about getting some more camber on the front with those plates from RPM. That are pretty pricey though, just wondering if anyone thought they were worth it?

Genuine M3 bushes are less than £25 for the pair from the dealer, and a good (and cheap) mod.

[bumhole]

Cool, also anyone got any views on these little monkeys?? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT

[bumhole]

I think i'm right with these too?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0187408299

[N00b]

I think i'm right with these too?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0187408299

There are plenty of people in here who know more about these cars than I do, all I can say is this. Those polybushes are twice the price of the genuine bushes that BMW fitted to the M3. Polybushes have their place, and opinions are mixed on them, but I'd suggest that if you're going to run the car on the road at anything resembling often then you should probably go for the dealer parts. If it's going to live it's life solely on track then choose the polybushes.

[N00b]

Cool, also anyone got any views on these little monkeys?? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT

I skip read the listing, but didn't see a manufacturer....which is bad. First up, you should decide what wheels you're going to be using, as if you're going up a size or two it will allow you to fit larger than standard discs.

[rix313]

Just a note. The Hottuning suspension maybe 'not too bad' for road but as for track/race performance I should imagine they are shocking in comparison to kits which don't cost a tremendous amount of spondies more but offer alot more for a track car.

[UweM3]

if you are on a budget you can always improve the stock rubber bushings by filling the gaps in the bushings up with screen bonding mastik (i.e. Sikaflex) to limit excessive movement of the bush. Alsmost as good as a polybush but much cheaper.
One word about running a polybushed car on the road. When my M3 still was a road car I had no adverse effect of increase of noise with ALL rubber replaced with polybushes. Maybe the buzzy M3 engine masks' things a little bit but I would not say anything against using poly bushes on a road car. Only thing you loose is the sloppy response of the car which can sometimes be a bit of a surprise if you don't pay the required attention when dawdling around on the roads. (--> meaning the car will drive to where the steering wheel is turned even by the slightest of movements)

[bumhole]

Think I will go with the polybushes then as Im not bothered how comfortable it is. I'm keeping the 15"s on at the minut because I've got a couple of sets of Tyres for them. I'm definately getting the e36 rack, I've been told by a few people now that it improves steering massively. Does anyone on here make a solid joint yet. I've read a few posts talking about making them?

[N00b]

Think I will go with the polybushes then as Im not bothered how comfortable it is. I'm keeping the 15"s on at the minut because I've got a couple of sets of Tyres for them. I'm definately getting the e36 rack, I've been told by a few people now that it improves steering massively. Does anyone on here make a solid joint yet. I've read a few posts talking about making them?

Apparently, the e46 rack is better and you don't need to replace the guibo at all as it has slightly longer splines.

[rix313]

Does anyone on here make a solid joint yet. I've read a few posts talking about making them?

DanThe had a groupbuy going in the (you guessed it) groupbuys section.

[bumhole]

Oh right weird I have never read that about the e46 rack! I have a brand new set of track rod ends for an e36 rack, do you think they will fit the e46?

[N00b]

Oh right weird I have never read that about the e46 rack! I have a brand new set of track rod ends for an e36 rack, do you think they will fit the e46?

I can't say mate, but I bet some of the parts gurus in here can tell you the answer.

[caneswell]

Increasing negative camber at the front will help hugely with the understeer. This requires some form of modification/replacement of the front top mounts. Uwe made a nice set using modified BMW mounts which i've fitted to my M3 and they work very well. Also fit the BMW eccentric control arm bushes from the M3.

Brake pads will sort the braking issues, so long as your callipers and discs are in good condition. Pagids are the best but cost a fair bit. I only put them on the front of mine sticking to cheaper Ferodo or EBC for the rear.

[bumhole]

Thanks massively for all the responses. Ordered my eccentric polybushes. Still looking into the rack situation.........

[Goodwood]

This is exactly what im trying to do with my 325i Touring, so i will be watching closely! I previously built a 309GTi track toy for £500 all in but it was wrong wheel drive, so starting again with the Touring.
Please keep us informed on your experiences.