Can you build a 2.3 or 2.5 m42

[Alex]

Is this possible???

i know hartge did a 2.3 lump which is rarer than a rare thing, think it came in the e36

More curiosity than anything

i relise it may not be cheap, also could you use the standard ecu mapped for the higher capacity engine???

[Royalratch]

ECU can be mapped to do handle anything I suppose.

I think Tim_iS (check out his 2.1L M42) mentioned that over 2 litres and the bore block/head bores get pretty close to each other - don't know how Hartge managed a 2.3 if they did at all, I thought it was nearer 2.0L plus aggressive cam and map...

Above all, very pricey.

[Alex]

i know 2.1 is possible but i want to know wether you can go higher

[Royalratch]

2.1L Hartge M44 (Not M42).

[Alex]

[sweep]

Dont waste your time on a 4 pot.

[Barx325i]

there is a mod matrix explaining what m42's can have inside.

the 1.9 is a good choice. lots of horses & there are some forged vauxhall pistons (yes vauxhall) that do the trick. I'll see if I can dig it out the link but someone must have it in their favourites etc..

[e21Jason]

I think the 2.3 used a plate to increase the deck hight to get the stroke.

Jason

[Alex]

Dont waste your time on a 4 pot.

insurance pete

they wont know whats inside the little turd, it needs work so i'am thinking rebuild?

[Barx325i]

they wont know whats inside the little turd, it needs work so i'am thinking rebuild?

unless you tell the planet via the internet

[Alex]

they wont know whats inside the little turd, it needs work so i'am thinking rebuild?

unless you tell the planet via the internet

[Barx325i]

it is an expensive do, headsets are a fortune & everything else A friend of mine rallies an iS with m44 crank, the said GM pistons & some trick management & it goes like a firework.. well it doesn't have a radio as you can imagine it's pretty sparce inside, but it's better than the stock motor

mighty fine engine the m42, if you have the incination and the cash, then it's worth doing

[smith4130]

there is a mod matrix explaining what m42's can have inside.

the 1.9 is a good choice. lots of horses & there are some forged vauxhall pistons (yes vauxhall) that do the trick. I'll see if I can dig it out the link but someone must have it in their favourites etc..

vauxhall pistons....?????

[Alex]

well a 1.9 can me made easily with m44 bits, i want to know if above 2.1 is possible

2.1 is using an m47 crank and s50???? pistons shaved 2.5mm, or something like that, but is it possible to to shave more off than 2.5??

or can you get some sort of custom con rods made up

would love to make it quicker than a 6 pot by just changing capacity since the m42 has more bhp per litre i'am guessing a 2.5 m42 will be quicker than a b25, although it will lack that mighty 6 pot sound. i just want to keep my car as standard ( i think )

[GrindCulture]

Building a hot M42 properly will probably cost a fair bit more than insuring a 6 pot...

[Alex]

Building a hot M42 properly will probably cost a fair bit more than insuring a 6 pot...

probably

[Barx325i]

I think the 2.3 used a plate to increase the deck hight to get the stroke.

Jason

that plate, in theory shouldn't be too much bother to get reproduced. I presume it sports an s14 crank? I'm looking the specs up at the moment

245 horses from an m44 with an s14 crank

On a few googles the M43 Diesel crank, and S50B30Euro Pistons (86mm) with the tops cut down seems to be a fairly good 2.1 setup but you will need to get it bored to 86mm for these pistons..

Then fit a turbo

[rix313]

There's an S14 crank on the 'bay at the moment

Whats the deal with shaving pistons? I'm looking at fitting M54B30 pistons to bring down the CR of my m42 but the M54 pistons have a dome as opposed to a dish which the M42 pistons feature, Just wondering if the crown could be modded to remove the dome? (hijack sorry )

[Royalratch]

From M42Club:

The bore x stroke of Hartge 2.3L M44 is 86mm x 99.8mm resulting in 2,319cc
I've read in an article on old European Car magazine (1997 edition if I'm not mistaken) about E36 compact modified by Hartge using this 2.3L M44. It was mentioned in the article that Hartge used a steel plate glued (using special glue) on top of the block to accommodate the 99.8mm stroke. Unfortunately the article didn't mention the thickness of the steel plate
I think a new liner with 86mm bore is used to tie together the additional steel plate and the cylinder block
Hartge applied the same method in S52 B32 engine which enlarged to 3.5L

It's cheaper to use E36 M3 S50 B30 US piston (86mm diameter with 32.8mm compression distance) together with 135mm conrod length and 88mm stroke of M47d crankshaft to obtain 2,044cc. For sure we have to enlarge the M42/M44 cylinder bore, but considering the bore distance of 91mm, it's still enough clearance
The deck height is 211.8mm, 0.35mm lower than original deck height of M42 & M44 which can be neglected

M42 used 84mm diameter piston with 31.65mm compression distance, 140mm conrod length and 81mm stroke, 1796cc --> deck height 212.15mm

M44 used 85mm diameter piston with 30.4mm compression distance, 140mm conrod length and 83.5 stroke, 1895cc --> deck height 21.15mm (same as M42)

[Royalratch]

Yum.

[Royalratch]

For the 2.3L version, here you can see their special plate they added to increase stroke as e21jason pointed out.




Simple and clever - is it a common tweak or a Hartge special.

[bss325i]

Building a hot M42 properly will probably cost a fair bit more than insuring a 6 pot...

probably

You could buy and insure a 325i for the cost of building a big capacity M42.

[bss325i]

For the 2.3L version, here you can see their special plate they added to increase stroke as e21jason pointed out.

Simple and clever - is it a common tweak or a Hartge special.

I have seen this method of increasing the stroke used in some very high power YB cosworth engines running 8-900bhp!

Not bad for a 4 pot!

[e30topless]

Yum.

this appears on ebay.de from time to time, it never sells?

think it had a starting price of around 1k last time, it is an empty block !

[Alex]

Building a hot M42 properly will probably cost a fair bit more than insuring a 6 pot...

probably

You could buy and insure a 325i for the cost of building a big capacity M42.

Very very true, i was just wondering, i really want 24v power but that wont be for at least 2 years and 3 months till this is possible

[Kos]

I think the 2.3 used a plate to increase the deck hight to get the stroke.

Jason

yep

glued to the block, the same way they did the 3.5 s50's and linned the block

i did post this in ratch's thread

[Dave_M3]

If I was in the UK, I wouldn't bother with modding an M42.

It only makes some sort of sence over here as the costs of being able to run "only a 1.8" as opposed to a M52b28 or S50b30/32 or S54 are a huge saving to the point you could buy an MM M42b21 and have it paid back over two or three years!

The S14 crank won't fit in a M42 block btw.

[stonesie]

there is a mod matrix explaining what m42's can have inside.

the 1.9 is a good choice. lots of horses & there are some forged vauxhall pistons (yes vauxhall) that do the trick. I'll see if I can dig it out the link but someone must have it in their favourites etc..

vauxhall pistons....?????

YES!! Vauxhall pistons, The number you need is C20XE (commonly known as the "red top") We used MAHLE pistons in ford 2.1 ZVH conversions (Zetec 2.0 block/crank/rods C20XE pistons and a modified CVH head.... Oh and a turbo ) 400bhp was not uncommon with no piston related problems.

VAUXHALL REDTOP

C20XE - 20XE - ENGINE

Astra / Calibra / Cavalier

DETAILS





Bore - 86mm

Comp Height - 30.43mm

Gudeon Pin - 21mm

Ring Layout 1.50mm x 1.50mm x 3.00mm

[Dave_M3]

Interesting...

[pete_moore16]

wouldnt it be c20let pistons as there from the turbo red top i wouldnt have thought the xe pistons would handle a turbo?

[Mikede]

I think the 2.3 used a plate to increase the deck hight to get the stroke.

Jason

Yup...was in Europen Car years ago.

[emdog16]

The m42 has all forged internals... just turbo it. It will take it, for the price of cams, ITB's your vauxhaul pistons??? etc, its just not worth it. One day i plan to build a monster M42 just to do it but im going to have to find a really good job before i do

[Barx325i]

there's an s42 for sale on the net €15k

[MarkT]

there is a mod matrix explaining what m42's can have inside.

the 1.9 is a good choice. lots of horses & there are some forged vauxhall pistons (yes vauxhall) that do the trick. I'll see if I can dig it out the link but someone must have it in their favourites etc..

vauxhall pistons....?????

YES!! Vauxhall pistons, The number you need is C20XE (commonly known as the "red top") We used MAHLE pistons in ford 2.1 ZVH conversions (Zetec 2.0 block/crank/rods C20XE pistons and a modified CVH head.... Oh and a turbo ) 400bhp was not uncommon with no piston related problems.

VAUXHALL REDTOP

C20XE - 20XE - ENGINE

Astra / Calibra / Cavalier

DETAILS





Bore - 86mm

Comp Height - 30.43mm

Gudeon Pin - 21mm

Ring Layout 1.50mm x 1.50mm x 3.00mm

Aren't M42 gudeon pins 22mm though?