Big Brake Kit recommendations

[BadDave]

Excellent.
Let me know how much you require for them and your preferred payment method and i'll get it sorted

[keri-WMS]

Excellent.
Let me know how much you require for them and your preferred payment method and i'll get it sorted

What calipers have you got again? What position and thread is the port into the caliper in case I can't adapt to the M10x1 (if the other end of your adaptor is 1/8NPT I can go straight to that if we get stuck)

Cheers!

[bramley]

Out of interest: those that are looking to get a big brake kit, what's your motivation for doing so?

I only ask as after another track day on Saturday I'm still really impressed with how well my brakes work, they are really strong, totally fade-free and I was able to brake a lot later than most cars. Bought my car with them fitted so not 100% sure what they are but I think they're EBC grooved disks and EBC pads on the front, with standard disks and pads on the back. Braided hoses and 5.1 fluid and I honestly can't see a reason to upgrade them, they work really well.

[minicooper172]

Well, EBC grooved discs and EBC pads with braided hoses and 5.1 fluid is an upgrade to standard brakes, much like "big" brakes are.

[keri-WMS]

Ok, well the specific advantages of a 4 pot caliper & big disc upgrade are:

- More brake torque if needed, if you have more power and bigger wheels/tires for instance, or are just heavy on the brakes.
- Fade resistance is higher (if needed for similar reasons), can withstand lots more abuse.
- More controllable due to the way 4 pots work, sliding calipers add drag etc.
- Lighter = less un-sprung mass = more grip as the wheel/strut can track the ground more accurately.
- Cheaper and better range of performance pads!

[bramley]

Well, EBC grooved discs and EBC pads with braided hoses and 5.1 fluid is an upgrade to standard brakes, much like "big" brakes are.

Never...

Keri: thanks for that. I guess I knew most of the science behind it, I'm just struggling to believe that many people really NEED the extra braking performance.

Quite happy to admit that if I tried a car with one of these BBKs I'd probably think it was the best thing ever, but having thrashed the cr*p out of my car on track and revelled in it's brilliant brakes, I remain convinced most BBKs are bought for show or pub bragging rights moreso than a real need for them.

(Life is for wants not needs so I'm not criticising people that buy these btw - it's just not something I feel is worth me spending the money on).

[minicooper172]

You asked why you'd want to upgrade your brakes... Well, this is probably targeted at people who don't have the upgrade that you have. Does that answer your question?

[bramley]

Kind of - but those people that don't have what I have, could get the same as me for less than a massive conversion, and it'd probably be all they ever need.

I dunno, I just think there are much cheaper ways of getting very effective brakes, certainly more effective than is likely to be needed on a road car anyway. Hence my view that it's a nice mod to have but potentially a bit OTT.

[BadDave]

Excellent.
Let me know how much you require for them and your preferred payment method and i'll get it sorted

What calipers have you got again? What position and thread is the port into the caliper in case I can't adapt to the M10x1 (if the other end of your adaptor is 1/8NPT I can go straight to that if we get stuck)

Cheers!

I'm using a pair of Wilwood GN III 6 pots Keri.
The inlet port is 1/8NPT and is facing towards the lug mounts, as per the pic below

[keri-WMS]

Excellent.
Let me know how much you require for them and your preferred payment method and i'll get it sorted

What calipers have you got again? What position and thread is the port into the caliper in case I can't adapt to the M10x1 (if the other end of your adaptor is 1/8NPT I can go straight to that if we get stuck)

Cheers!

I'm using a pair of Wilwood GN III 6 pots Keri.
The inlet port is 1/8NPT and is facing towards the lug mounts, as per the pic below

Hmmm, why not go with a 90 degree fitting? Added to the WMS hose's 45 degrees that gives room for a lot of fiddling with the hose position?



Or replace the normal 45 degree WMS hose end:


..with a 90 degree one like this?:


Or even use a 90 degree on the hose AND on the adapter, if there's room? Or is it a "straight line" to the caliper's port from the hoses point of view (no need to dodge the strut etc?)?

[BadDave]

What calipers have you got again? What position and thread is the port into the caliper in case I can't adapt to the M10x1 (if the other end of your adaptor is 1/8NPT I can go straight to that if we get stuck)

Cheers!

I'm using a pair of Wilwood GN III 6 pots Keri.
The inlet port is 1/8NPT and is facing towards the lug mounts, as per the pic below

Hmmm, why not go with a 90 degree fitting? Added to the WMS hose's 45 degrees that gives room for a lot of fiddling with the hose position?



Or replace the normal 45 degree WMS hose end:


..with a 90 degree one like this?:


Or even use a 90 degree on the hose AND on the adapter, if there's room? Or is it a "straight line" to the caliper's port from the hoses point of view (no need to dodge the strut etc?)?

I,ve just been out to have another look at what's currently fitted and the 45 degree WMS union looks like it'll do nicely,AND the hose should take nearly the same route as the standard hoses.

I've measure the hose from the underside of the plate on the inner wing, to where the caliper body will be and it appears to be approximately 425mm.

When you add on the additional length of the 45 degree fitting. it should work out about right.

[gareth]

Well, EBC grooved discs and EBC pads with braided hoses and 5.1 fluid is an upgrade to standard brakes, much like "big" brakes are.

Never...

Keri: thanks for that. I guess I knew most of the science behind it, I'm just struggling to believe that many people really NEED the extra braking performance.

Quite happy to admit that if I tried a car with one of these BBKs I'd probably think it was the best thing ever, but having thrashed the cr*p out of my car on track and revelled in it's brilliant brakes, I remain convinced most BBKs are bought for show or pub bragging rights moreso than a real need for them.

(Life is for wants not needs so I'm not criticising people that buy these btw - it's just not something I feel is worth me spending the money on).

if i took you for a lap of the nurburgring in my E30 you'd think differently! dot 5.1 fluid, EBC reds and fresh discs all round. my car is 1400kg and with 220ish BHP it will cremate the brakes within half a lap. i can manage the same on the road too (out of town of course) but with the WMS 4 pots, fresh discs and EBC red's again, i couldn't fade them.
it's all down to how much power you have (with the need to slow from greater speed at each corner) how much grip you have (hence how hard you can brake without lockup) and the weight of the car (mass to be decelerated from any given speed). that's before you take driving style and usage (road / track) into consideration.

my car has a lot of grip (sticky tyres, leda suspension), lots of weight and lots of power. with a few hundred kg less, less grip available and less power, the braking needs would be a lot different.

but like you say, a lot of people do like to have nice big shiny brakes just for looks and they certainly do look cool

[keri-WMS]

I'm using a pair of Wilwood GN III 6 pots Keri.
The inlet port is 1/8NPT and is facing towards the lug mounts, as per the pic below

Hmmm, why not go with a 90 degree fitting? Added to the WMS hose's 45 degrees that gives room for a lot of fiddling with the hose position?



Or replace the normal 45 degree WMS hose end:


..with a 90 degree one like this?:


Or even use a 90 degree on the hose AND on the adapter, if there's room? Or is it a "straight line" to the caliper's port from the hoses point of view (no need to dodge the strut etc?)?

I,ve just been out to have another look at what's currently fitted and the 45 degree WMS union looks like it'll do nicely,AND the hose should take nearly the same route as the standard hoses.

I've measure the hose from the underside of the plate on the inner wing, to where the caliper body will be and it appears to be approximately 425mm.

When you add on the additional length of the 45 degree fitting. it should work out about right.

Okay..so we're needing a WMS line (which is normally 350mm including all fittings), but longer (350mm plus 1.5" or 425mm plus 1.5"?), with the normal WMS bits at both ends? I may as well include the correct adapters as well right into the caliper, I don't think I can get the 45 degree bit in M10x1, it's imperial.

(don't tell anyone, I hate brake lines!!!! )

[e301988325i]

Well, EBC grooved discs and EBC pads with braided hoses and 5.1 fluid is an upgrade to standard brakes, much like "big" brakes are.

Never...

Keri: thanks for that. I guess I knew most of the science behind it, I'm just struggling to believe that many people really NEED the extra braking performance.

Quite happy to admit that if I tried a car with one of these BBKs I'd probably think it was the best thing ever, but having thrashed the cr*p out of my car on track and revelled in it's brilliant brakes, I remain convinced most BBKs are bought for show or pub bragging rights moreso than a real need for them.

(Life is for wants not needs so I'm not criticising people that buy these btw - it's just not something I feel is worth me spending the money on).

Big brakes make the car stand on it's nose from big speeds again and again, BMWs have always supplied shit brakes as standard, they've only just started doing 4-pots as an extra cost option to new models! by the way, what engine do you have?

[billgatese30]

Well, EBC grooved discs and EBC pads with braided hoses and 5.1 fluid is an upgrade to standard brakes, much like "big" brakes are.

Never...

Keri: thanks for that. I guess I knew most of the science behind it, I'm just struggling to believe that many people really NEED the extra braking performance.

Quite happy to admit that if I tried a car with one of these BBKs I'd probably think it was the best thing ever, but having thrashed the cr*p out of my car on track and revelled in it's brilliant brakes, I remain convinced most BBKs are bought for show or pub bragging rights moreso than a real need for them.

(Life is for wants not needs so I'm not criticising people that buy these btw - it's just not something I feel is worth me spending the money on).

Big brakes make the car stand on it's nose from big speeds again and again, BMWs have always supplied shit brakes as standard, they've only just started doing 4-pots as an extra cost option to new models! by the way, what engine do you have?

weight transfer is something that will make the car nose dive, with a good balanced setup and a proportioning valve this can make weight transfer have no effect to maximum braking potential.

And bmw have used opposed piston calipers for years.

[BadDave]

Hmmm, why not go with a 90 degree fitting? Added to the WMS hose's 45 degrees that gives room for a lot of fiddling with the hose position?



Or replace the normal 45 degree WMS hose end:


..with a 90 degree one like this?:


Or even use a 90 degree on the hose AND on the adapter, if there's room? Or is it a "straight line" to the caliper's port from the hoses point of view (no need to dodge the strut etc?)?

I,ve just been out to have another look at what's currently fitted and the 45 degree WMS union looks like it'll do nicely,AND the hose should take nearly the same route as the standard hoses.

I've measure the hose from the underside of the plate on the inner wing, to where the caliper body will be and it appears to be approximately 425mm.

When you add on the additional length of the 45 degree fitting. it should work out about right.

Okay..so we're needing a WMS line (which is normally 350mm including all fittings), but longer (350mm plus 1.5" or 425mm plus 1.5"?), with the normal WMS bits at both ends? I may as well include the correct adapters as well right into the caliper, I don't think I can get the 45 degree bit in M10x1, it's imperial.

(don't tell anyone, I hate brake lines!!!! )

Make it 425mm plus the WMS fittings please Keri.
If the 45 degree fitting isn't available in M10x1 then please include the male male adapters as well.

If you can get hold of the 45 deg fitting in M10x1 them the adapters won't be needed,as i have some here already.

[keri-WMS]

Make it 425mm plus the WMS fittings please Keri.
If the 45 degree fitting isn't available in M10x1 then please include the male male adapters as well.

If you can get hold of the 45 deg fitting in M10x1 them the adapters won't be needed,as i have some here already.

It'll be the whole thing to make sure it all fits, the 1/8NPT bits don't add much £ anyway.

I'll let you know as soon as I hear back with a price!

[BadDave]

Make it 425mm plus the WMS fittings please Keri.
If the 45 degree fitting isn't available in M10x1 then please include the male male adapters as well.

If you can get hold of the 45 deg fitting in M10x1 them the adapters won't be needed,as i have some here already.

It'll be the whole thing to make sure it all fits, the 1/8NPT bits don't add much £ anyway.

I'll let you know as soon as I hear back with a price!

Thanks
If you could PM me with contact details and preferred payment methods as well please.

[bramley]

if i took you for a lap of the nurburgring in my E30 you'd think differently! dot 5.1 fluid, EBC reds and fresh discs all round. my car is 1400kg and with 220ish BHP it will cremate the brakes within half a lap. i can manage the same on the road too (out of town of course) but with the WMS 4 pots, fresh discs and EBC red's again, i couldn't fade them.
it's all down to how much power you have (with the need to slow from greater speed at each corner) how much grip you have (hence how hard you can brake without lockup) and the weight of the car (mass to be decelerated from any given speed). that's before you take driving style and usage (road / track) into consideration.

my car has a lot of grip (sticky tyres, leda suspension), lots of weight and lots of power. with a few hundred kg less, less grip available and less power, the braking needs would be a lot different.

but like you say, a lot of people do like to have nice big shiny brakes just for looks and they certainly do look cool

Cool - thanks for the reply. Sounds like you've gone for big brakes for a very good reason.

I'm running a pretty standard engine, R888s, but suspension that is still quite soft (although uprated) so my needs are lower than yours.

I may find myself on a UK track the makes my brakes wilt, but for the time being they do the job well.

[BadDave]

if i took you for a lap of the nurburgring in my E30 you'd think differently! dot 5.1 fluid, EBC reds and fresh discs all round. my car is 1400kg and with 220ish BHP it will cremate the brakes within half a lap. i can manage the same on the road too (out of town of course) but with the WMS 4 pots, fresh discs and EBC red's again, i couldn't fade them.
it's all down to how much power you have (with the need to slow from greater speed at each corner) how much grip you have (hence how hard you can brake without lockup) and the weight of the car (mass to be decelerated from any given speed). that's before you take driving style and usage (road / track) into consideration.

my car has a lot of grip (sticky tyres, leda suspension), lots of weight and lots of power. with a few hundred kg less, less grip available and less power, the braking needs would be a lot different.

but like you say, a lot of people do like to have nice big shiny brakes just for looks and they certainly do look cool

Cool - thanks for the reply. Sounds like you've gone for big brakes for a very good reason.

As stated above,they do look however,just like Gareth, I too use an uprated lump under the bonnet and coilovers with nice grippy rubber as well. Also camber /caster tweaks to get things the way i like them.
I currently run 302mm disks with brembo 4 pots and it currently stops adequately for my present needs.

I ,however know what's planned engine wise and this upgrade is in preperation for the engine upgrade.

It's also rather fun outbraking more powerfull and expensive machinery, much to the owners embarresment

[keri-WMS]

Make it 425mm plus the WMS fittings please Keri.
If the 45 degree fitting isn't available in M10x1 then please include the male male adapters as well.

If you can get hold of the 45 deg fitting in M10x1 them the adapters won't be needed,as i have some here already.

It'll be the whole thing to make sure it all fits, the 1/8NPT bits don't add much £ anyway.

I'll let you know as soon as I hear back with a price!

Thanks
If you could PM me with contact details and preferred payment methods as well please.

Cost turns out to be the same as normal WMS lines!

PM in a sec...

[BadDave]

It'll be the whole thing to make sure it all fits, the 1/8NPT bits don't add much £ anyway.

I'll let you know as soon as I hear back with a price!

Thanks
If you could PM me with contact details and preferred payment methods as well please.

Cost turns out to be the same as normal WMS lines!

PM in a sec...

PM'd Keri

[keri-WMS]

Just a note to point out that I've edited the WMS prices post in this thread.....the spec has gone UP (lower-profile calipers giving about 1mm more room, 6082 T6 brackets) and the price has come DOWN (by just under a tenner)!

The pistons and caliper bridge spacers have been tweaked to the new 2010 spec (along with the brackets), this gives just over 1mm more room to the spokes. Not a lot - but a real bonus if means you can run a daft dished wheel at the standard track.

I'm picking up the new brackets this afternoon!

[ross_jsy]

do you have some in stock?

[keri-WMS]

do you have some in stock?

As of about five minutes ago, yup!

Each batch tends to go pretty quick and there are two kits which might be going to a race team in Austria so PM me ASAP if you'd like one!

[ross_jsy]

wont be till this whole christmas rubbish is out the way sadly.

how often do you restock?

[keri-WMS]

wont be till this whole christmas rubbish is out the way sadly.

how often do you restock?

Bummer! If you manage to get it in before Jan 1st you still get the 15% vat instead of 17.5% though.

Restocks historically have been a few times a year but I'm trying to improve on that bit by bit.

[ross_jsy]

vat doesnt apply to me, im a channel islands VAT dodger

ill see if i can shift some stuff and get back to you when i can

[keri-WMS]

vat doesnt apply to me, im a channel islands VAT dodger

ill see if i can shift some stuff and get back to you when i can

lol - cool!

[keri-WMS]

Had to be done!

[Ace 325i]

What is the price for a full BBK set up -front/back?

Interested!!

[mattrs]

This is very interresting. (I didn't know kits were available as cheap as this)!

[keri-WMS]

What is the price for a full BBK set up -front/back?

Interested!!

We don't have a rear kit at the moment I'm afraid, but we can supply EBC Reds or Yellow front and rear with the kit which works well!

We'll be trying to get a rear kit sorted out at some point, when we do it'll be "plug and play" add-on which also works as an upgrade to anyone already running the front WMS setup...

All the prices are at the bottom of page 1 of this thread (I keep them up to date there! ).

This is very interresting. (I didn't know kits were available as cheap as this)!

lol - my fault for keeping a low profile! They normally sell out pretty quick once people find out a batch has arrived so I don't need to advertise very hard at the moment...

[Dezzy]

They are available and they are MINT!
Anyone thinking of uprating there brakes won't go wrong with these. Very high quality components and customer service too.

[keri-WMS]

They are available and they are MINT!
Anyone thinking of uprating there brakes won't go wrong with these. Very high quality components and customer service too.

Ta chap!