E30 handling in the wet.

[tomstickland]

Is it a general trait of all E30s that they are a bit of a handfull in the wet?
I got bitten by my IS last week, in exactly the same place as where I span the 320. I was ready this time, but it still bit me. The back came round and before I could do anything it had completely gone. No damage was done this time though, which was nice.

Anyway, after building a good level of confidence with it in the dry and finding it OK in the wet, my confidence in the wet has been reduced a lot.

On the plus side, I've had the proper 15" wheels repainted and I'm fitting them along with new Toyo Proxy tyres next week, so we'll see what difference that makes.

[dazleeds]

thats why we love em fella

[Davenotouring]

Being rear drive mate, the rear end will lose traction in the wet if you accelerate around a bend.

Best to practice if possible somewhere off the road! Get a feel for what it is like to lose the back end to see what it is like!

[Artis]

its the best fun you can have ............. frount wheel drives

[steedymorgan]

o yes they can be a little crazy in the wet but thats the fun of them. try keeping a 325i i check when it's raining oo thats good fun ha ha.

[Artis]

try a 327 alpina i thought the 325 was bad

[Jos]

Yup noticed this the other day on the way home from work, little twisty back road in the rain was quite exciting, I was taking it very easy and the back end was twitching all over the show. Thinking about new bushes and bigger ARBs now

[jonmsm]

That rear end twitchyness is one of the sole reasons I adore my car. When its wet there is not one journey i do without getting the back end wide. I have to admit, first time it happened was on a roundabout it scared the living crap out of me as I had never had oversteer before but some how i caught it and that was the begining of a happy relationship between me and oversteer.

All you got to do, if it happens again in the wet, try not to jump stright off the gas or onto the brakes but also dont plant your foot all the way, just hold yourself steady and control your throttle possition to keep the revs from sky rocketing and feed on that opposite lock and you will make an impressive drift, controlled and graceful. once you got to worked out you will enjoy the feeling and the stunned look of pedestrians... be a hoooligan and put those toyos on the front and some nice remoulds on the rear

hehe, Jon

[astondg]

My 323i is definately not a handful, with the LSD and tyres I have it has ok grip. I can drive it reasonably hard even in the wet and it only gets very slightly sideways when there is oil/mud/etc. on the road and it has always been easy to catch. I'm sure if I drove it flat out it would get big sideways and then be difficult to catch but as long as I drive sensibly it seems fine. It doesn't have the wet ability of AWD or DSC or something but it doesn't seem too bad to me.

Aston

[Jhonno]

Mine is a handful in the wet... tbh i have little confidence in it in the wet atm so drive it like a pussy when the heavens have opened..

Im hoping rear axle bushes and an lsd will help

[Fushion_Julz]

Yup noticed this the other day on the way home from work, little twisty back road in the rain was quite exciting, I was taking it very easy and the back end was twitching all over the show. Thinking about new bushes and bigger ARBs now

The more you stiffen the car (especially at the rear) the more it will oversteer...especially in the wet!

If you want to tame the wet handling, soften the settings...That's what adjustables are for!

[E327UKL]

if you dont like the rain and goin sideways then why have toyos??

they are possibly the worst tyre ever made for wet driving. after all they are NOT a performance tyre they are a budget tyre. proxes are the worst of em all in the wet!!

[jonbuoy]

Yup noticed this the other day on the way home from work, little twisty back road in the rain was quite exciting, I was taking it very easy and the back end was twitching all over the show. Thinking about new bushes and bigger ARBs now

The more you stiffen the car (especially at the rear) the more it will oversteer...especially in the wet!

If you want to tame the wet handling, soften the settings...That's what adjustables are for!

Exactly, stiffening the rear is brilliant for the dry cos it keeps the car flat through the bends but in the wet will make it slide so be careful what you choose to do and go and practise somewhere and get used to it. Mines very twitchy in the wet and i have'nt got an lsd, its just the miss's screaming in my earhole that throws me off balance

[stevo]

That rear end twitchyness is one of the sole reasons I adore my car. When its wet there is not one journey i do without getting the back end wide.

[tomstickland]

I was under the impression that Toyo Proxies were well regarded tyres, on a par with F1s, my original tyre of choice. Maybe I should pay the extra Ԛ£60 total and go for F1s then.

<update> I've looked around the net a bit and Toyo Proxes are not described as a budget tyre; they're described as a performance tyre. As to whether they are any good in reality, I've no idea since I've never used them before. F1s previously.

For example http://www.tyretest.com/pkw_winterreifen/index.html
see list of top rated tyres.</update>

I have no objection to the car oversteering. In the dry I've found it very entertaining.

My objection is to the way that the intentions of myself and the car parted company so quickly. Once it had gone then all I could was sit there looking at the view as the car went sideways/slightly backwards along the road. It's all well and good going on about heroics, but when it snapped out so quickly then that's not much use since you can't exploit unpredictable handling. Hence why I'm asking about tyres since I know that rubbish tyres can make any car a bad handler, espeically in the wet.
Put it this way, I could have driven my FWD hatch into that corner at that speed and made it round without any problems.

Hmm, maybe F1s on the reconditioned wheels then and then I'll see how it goes.

Maybe I'm just too inexperienced with the car in those conditions. This is what I'm trying to find out; how much can I "blame" the car, and how much is just down to lack of experience/ability.

[Bob_S]

ya pansy! I'm runnin on budget kwik-fit tyres.. and tell me my 316 aint a handful on a wet road I have to potter and even then it will slide.. its all fun tho I also find the miss's puts me off balence lol

[astondg]

if you dont like the rain and goin sideways then why have toyos??

they are possibly the worst tyre ever made for wet driving. after all they are NOT a performance tyre they are a budget tyre. proxes are the worst of em all in the wet!!

I have Toyos and like I said I have no problem with the wet weather handling and grip. My Toyos are R1Rs as well which are meant more for dry roads, they still grip fine in the wet.

If it is really a problem in the wet get a friend to sit in the back. With a friend in the back of my 323i and my LSD I cannot spin the wheels in the wet even with full throttle and over bumps (and my apparently poor tyres ). Maybe with a clutch dump but thats about all.

The only time it has been a handful was at race speed on a freshly watered dirt/clay circuit, but I still managed to keep control so it can't have been too bad.

I have slightly stiffer springs, Koni adjustable sports dampers set to the softest setting and I have the standard front and rear ARBs.

Aston

[jmc330i]

I think all E30s can be a handful in the wet, especially if you provoke them a little, but thats part of the fun
As Dave said, go find somewhere wide and open with nothing to hit and have some fun - I mean practice

Once you get the feel of the car, it will be much better. I was always nervous as hell when I first got my 325i and the roads were wet, but just remember to take it easy and you will be fine.

I always find it satisfying when my mates are following me and I get the back end out a little. Nothing to huge, but its still fun.

I will say that youve got to learn to balance the car more when cornering quickly in the wet, otherwise it will feel like it wants to let go and that will give no confidence.
Also remember no sudden actions, like jumping on/off the throttle or brakes, steer into a slide but dont forget to steer back as well - if the rears grip it could snatch back in the opposite direction, as a mate of mine found out and ended up nose first in a ditch.

Ive also seen the same mate change down a gear just before turning into a corner It had pretty much the same effect as pulling the handbrake on. Luckily we were on an airfield so he only spun on to the rough grass, but he learnt never to do that again.

[Simon13]

the e30 chassis is great at telling u when the backs gonna go, u need to learn when it's telling u. Having an open diff means u get even more notice of when the back will go, u can just feel it through the s/wheel.

LSD will help wet handling but u get alot less notice of when it goes, but the slides are alot easier to control.

My car is very stiff on the back end, with F1 tyres which are 225's and it handles very well in the wet, i can drive it almost as hard in the wet now.

[SwirlyE30]

Mine, being an IS can only really do propper drifting in the wet. I can get the arse out in the dry, but thats on corners i know, in first gear.And then before you know it your on the limiter.

The thing about the IS is its got fcuk all low down torque.Try flooring it in second at about 15/20 mph, it takes about a week for it to get up to 3.5/4k which is where the power comes in. So i normally just do stuff in the wet.



Dunots and burnouts are sweet in the dry.This week i must have lost about a quater of an inch on the rears by doing the burnout- into slow donut technique. And you can feel it dont like it lol.


Ive had some really bad spin outs and fcuk ups in the wet, so i take it easier now.But sometimes its very easy to get carried away. I came home from work wednesday and it was pissing it down, big stylee. So i went round my block, and theres this corner which is awesome, completly open bend so you can back off if somthings comming, and you can hold the tail out for ages. Did that shit loads of times, before getting shouted/hailed at by some old people on the pavement lol



But somtimes if got to cocky.Theres certain roads, corners which i like doing stuff on, and somtimes i cant get the back out , even in the wet, other times it happens with little or no effort at all, inthe same gear, same situation etc, so im not 100%sure on whats gonna happen some times lol.


It is sweet though.I took my mate out the othernight for a drive and went round the industrial estate, started doing a burnout and kept my foot planted on the brake and turned it into a dunot, smoke everywhere, and my mate was loving it.I said dunots wernt hard to do, anyone could do it, but he was going mental lol. He got home later and text me "wanna swap cars?!? ) (hes got FWD wrongness.

[jay528ise1985]

Do any of you guys find that the E30 actually tells you what it wants to do when the back end starts to slide?

I find that when mine starts to let go the steering wheel actually pulls itself the right way and all I have to do is decide when to stop it turning itself and add the correct amount of throttle!! I Looooooooooooooove it!!

They're just so communicative you (almost always...) know what's gonna happen.

[tomstickland]

Ok thanks for the info.
I'm going to sort the wheels/tyres and assume that there some more learning curve to be climbed before getting cocky in the wet.

Some more Toyo info http://www.blackcircles.com/tyres/toyo

[Simon13]

it's learning how to drive RWD in general, once uve mastered it, driving a rwd car can so rewarding in a way a FWD car cannot match.

It's because they are harder to drive in the wet etc that we all love them!

[E327UKL]

i was manager at ats for 18 months and my experience and views on toyos are that they are a cheap crap budget. but if you like em thats up to you. perhaps you ve never had decent tyres as they are twice the cost of proxes

[dazleeds]

as was said above just get ya fat arse over to tesco,s next time its chucking it and learn how to hold ya assss in a slide
then start playing with different tyres until you find something that suits your driving

reccomendations are very usefull but we all have our own little traits when driving so whats good for 1 may be sh i te for another trial and error

now piss off and spin them rears hth

ps dnt forget to check all ya bushes suspension etc
just in case its sod all to do with tyres

[tomstickland]

UPDATE: just had 4 Eagle F1s fitted.

The old tyres were in an appalling state. I think all comments about unpredictable wet handling can be put down to shot-to-pieces tyres. We'll see how it goes once the F1s have some miles on them.

With regard to learning about rwd, I've got the corners on my test route sorted in the dry. It's a matter of putting the correct amount of power in. Too much and the back end comes round, lift off and it comes round.
I agree that this is much more satisfying than FWD can ever be.

I've got used to it now, but I remember being astounded with the way that the steering felt so clear when I first drove my first E30.

i was manager at ats for 18 months and my experience and views on toyos are that they are a cheap crap budget. but if you like em thats up to you. perhaps you ve never had decent tyres as they are twice the cost of proxes

I've only ever used F1s before, but the Proxes do well in the tyre tests. I have no more knowledge of them than that. They are sold as budget performance tyres. Mind you, TVR fit them as std.

Oh yes, best bit is that I piad Ԛ£215 total inc VAT and fitting and them removed all the tyres off my old wheels too.
That was Protyre (part of Micheldever group).

The car feels better already - the steering (PAS not connected) feels lighter which must be down to the tyre condition and the fact that these wheels are the correct offset. I used F1s exclusively on my previous car and really trust their wet grip, so hopefully this will help on the BM.

[Taylor325i]

the e30 chassis is great at telling u when the backs gonna go, u need to learn when it's telling u. Having an open diff means u get even more notice of when the back will go, u can just feel it through the s/wheel.

LSD will help wet handling but u get alot less notice of when it goes, but the slides are alot easier to control.

My car is very stiff on the back end, with F1 tyres which are 225's and it handles very well in the wet, i can drive it almost as hard in the wet now.

Today was the first time that I have experienced oversteer with an LSD fitted. It was p1ssing with rain this morning so I thought I'd have a play in the Touring. I pulled out of a junction and put the foot down a bit - damn nearly spun it. I meant to kick the arse out a wee bit but not as much as I actually did. Was almost on full opposite lock to catch it but as said by Simon it was so easy to control and must've looked cool as fcuk.


Taylor.

[astondg]

i was manager at ats for 18 months and my experience and views on toyos are that they are a cheap crap budget. but if you like em thats up to you. perhaps you ve never had decent tyres as they are twice the cost of proxes

I can't comment on the Proxes but I still don't think Toyos in general are "a cheap crap budget". Mine weren't cheap at about GBP 400 and in the dry and wet they are far better than other tyres I have tried (including Yokohama, Bridgestone and others) on the road and the race track. They might not be the best but they definately don't feel like a budget tyre.

Aston

[Chaos]

if you dont like the rain and goin sideways then why have toyos??

they are possibly the worst tyre ever made for wet driving. after all they are NOT a performance tyre they are a budget tyre. proxes are the worst of em all in the wet!!

u reckon?
they seem to get good wet weather ratings in tests etc.



any rwd car with decent power is gonna be a bbit of a handful in the wet.
its more fun, but u need to be more careful and ultimately on actual roads u will be slower than an equiv performance hot hatch - but u shud get to ur destination with more of a smile on your face

[SwirlyE30]

RWD can be a pain in the arse somtimes. I went out tonight for a shit load of burnouts and drifting and ive noticed that on the rear tyres, theres some tread left right on the outside, but the inside part, on both, is actually bald, completly slick.


Need some remoulds i think!

[RevBillyG]

My back end used to constantly kick out in the wet when pulling out from junctions. Then I got some tyres that cost more than Ԛ£25 each.

Don't think the car has the power to dislodge these bigger wheels I've got now. Not that I've tried too hard. Can't afford a new set of boots atm

[Fushion_Julz]

i was manager at ats for 18 months and my experience and views on toyos are that they are a cheap crap budget. but if you like em thats up to you. perhaps you ve never had decent tyres as they are twice the cost of proxes

Price isn't any indication of how good (or bad) a tyre...or for that matter, any other item....is!

Toyos aren't that bad...never tried the Proxes, but I used to race on Toyos (road saloons) and they were an improvement on the BF Goodrichs I had before on the same car...
I know that Falkens are budget in price and in the top few when it comes to performance...

[Jos]

Think I figured out whats wrong with mine, the camber on the rear is waaaay off, tyres looked fine on the outside but was under the car yesterday and the inside is buggered on each tyre... so 2 new tyres and some eccentric trailing arm bushes required...

[320Touring]

ASDA carparks are actually cunningly disguised drift pans

go play, lose it then figure it out!!!

*disclaimer-I will not be held responsible for any damage caused by errant trolly's hurled by Chavs*

[tomstickland]

Most local supermarkets roud here have far too many obstacles sticking out of the ground.