Long Story/advice for s65/m50

[JOSEF-1]

Alrite everyone , im new to the BMW world i've been in the VW way and now reliased that i should of done the BMW a long long time ago , im a mechcanic by trade and have totally rebuilt my VW's full engine rebuild's with plenty of fun stuff added,

Im after a fair bit of advice on what path to go down , im looking at buying an E30 what is the best to start with to get either the M62/S62 or the s50b30/s50b30 ,

I no that the jump in engine's is pretty big , but im after alot of stock power i won't be after doing mod's like chip's or turbo's i just want a pure stock motor but with catless exhuast ,

just wondering what the score is with doing this about the brakes and the prop shaft/rear axle and diff if i started with high up the market e30 could i keep that setup?

What would you say is the best way to go , money is sort of an issue for the engine/parts needed to start with im not loaded but i can and will do all the work myself, i really like both the engine types but if needs be i'll be more than happy to settle with the 6 cyl or the 8 ,

Cheers Joe

[Jhonno]

Any shell will do as you will be replacing all the guts regardless

DIY the S50 is a 6k swap.. S62 is about 6k just for the engine

[glenn]

money is sort of an issue for the engine/parts needed to start with im not loaded

hello and welcome joe,

what do you think your budget is ?

[Jon_Bmw]

Surely an s62 isn't £6500, you can get a whole leggy e39 m5 for that!

[Jhonno]

I bet if you buy one through a breaker it wouldn't be far off that..

[320ise]

is that rite? 6.5k seems allot for an m5 motor! if so i think buying an m5 would be the more econimcal option!

[S38B38]

If you are going to do IL6,, use
S50b3x

all around,, fair price and by far the most easy 6 cyl S-engine swapp,,

nice power and much better fuel economy vs S38

S62 will IMO be the greatest swapp,, so many engines available in EU,

more and more E30 are shown w/ S62

[JOSEF-1]

Alrite everyone , cheers for the info so far , well i dont have a budget as such not a set price , this is and will be a long term project over 18months i'd expect ,

Looks that the m3 lump in the one to go for coz the m5 v8 just costs loads of money , if it was going to be V8'd then its gotta be the goodern so m5 all the way , unless i see the m62b44 is in the e39 540i,

But i think it would be best to go s50b32 so if anyone could provide maybe some forum thread where people have done it , the main concern is the brakes/drive chain if i got a lower down e30 to start with,


Joe

[daimlerman]

Believe it or not,but you most practical starting point would be a touring...
Tourings/cabbies all came with vented front discs,rear discs and the tougher 51mm front struts.
If you are serious about an S50,you will need these bits anyway,they are also standard on 325i saloons,but not on the lesser versions.
Rest of drivetrain will depend on your requirements and your choice of gearbox,a huge range of diffs have been fitted from the factory,from as low as 4.45 to as high as 3.25,other BMW's can also supply higher ratios still.
So,have a rumage through past posts in this section,the M50 thread stickie'd at the top is not directly relevent to your plans but may help you.

[JOSEF-1]

Cheers Everyone , i've looked and looked for the S52 engine there is a few on ebay , just wondering where people who do these converions get there's from are you buying donor cars?With teh gearbox sitution if i did get a full running e30 325i could i use that things running gear/rear diff and gear box?


Also if i went for the higher version IE the 325i saloon i'd have the vented discs and the tougher struts would this be a better way to start im not really interested in the touring ,


Just after some info with the Diff's what is the difference from the 4.45 and the whole range up to 3.25? any chance of being able to put the e46 carbon box or something like that to try and make the e36 m3 engine sound a tad more like it ?


Cheers Joe

[Dave_M3]

The off the shelf carbon airboxes for the E36s don't fit as they foul the master cylinders from what I've seen.

E39M5 engines can't be £6500...
I've seen one or two for sale over here for around the 4000 euro mark...
S50b30s or b32s are making about 1500-2000 with gearboxes so there still is a resonable difference in price!

Suppose the main thing is people find the S50s easier as the wiring is more plug and play without having to worry about CANbus and all the other shite resulting in the need for standalone for the more advanced engines.

[martinpallot]

Cheers Everyone , i've looked and looked for the S52 engine there is a few on ebay , just wondering where people who do these converions get there's from are you buying donor cars?With teh gearbox sitution if i did get a full running e30 325i could i use that things running gear/rear diff and gear box?


Also if i went for the higher version IE the 325i saloon i'd have the vented discs and the tougher struts would this be a better way to start im not really interested in the touring ,


Just after some info with the Diff's what is the difference from the 4.45 and the whole range up to 3.25? any chance of being able to put the e46 carbon box or something like that to try and make the e36 m3 engine sound a tad more like it ?


Cheers Joe

You definately want decent bsuspension and brakes with close to 300 horses. S52 is a US engine so I think you are refering to an S50. Difference in the diffs is the ratio. You will need the medium case diff to cope with power from an S50.

E46's never came with carbon airbox's with the excpetion of the CSL. If these do come up then they sell for the price of an s50 so I would dismss that idea. If you do want a carbon airbox then there are plenty of aftermarket options available. however ideally this needs to be coupled with an alphaN set up and mapped properly to get any realistic gains.

As mentioned before. ead through the M50 sticky. It takes time as there is lot of info but you should find most of your answers in there.

Not intended directly at yourself but of recent alot of people come on here asking the same questions. if they did a search or took sime time reading through the engine swaps section they would get the answers they need.

[Dave_M3]

As a matter of interest, would a good E36 aftermarket Carbon airbox fit an E46 engine with Alpha N or apropriate software to run the whole thing?

Or will the ITBs be the wrong spacing, sizing for it...

[UweM3]

no point IMHO buying a "cheap" M5 to break it for it's engine. Why are they cheap in the first place? Because they come with a nice low mileage engine?? Go figure.
And getting it to run properly is sometimes even a task while it's still in the E39 shell, so could really become a major headache in a E30. If you are not experienced with these engines I wouldn't touch them. And you get nicer V8's with similar grunt for far less with much more reliability. (chevy LS1, 2,3...7)

[Dave_M3]

LS1 is great but its not a BMW engine

I agree, you really need to know your stuff when messing with the fancier BMW engines and an S54, S62 or similarly complicated engine is not going to be a walk in the park for somebody that knows E30s and BMW engines well either so I'd go with the well documented approach such as an S50.

300bhp is loads for an E30 anyway.

Alrite everyone , cheers for the info so far , well i dont have a budget as such not a set price , this is and will be a long term project over 18months i'd expect ,

Looks that the m3 lump in the one to go for coz the m5 v8 just costs loads of money , if it was going to be V8'd then its gotta be the goodern so m5 all the way , unless i see the m62b44 is in the e39 540i,

But i think it would be best to go s50b32 so if anyone could provide maybe some forum thread where people have done it , the main concern is the brakes/drive chain if i got a lower down e30 to start with,


Joe

18 months? That would be nearly an over-nighter for me
Thats what being in uni does to your timeframe for things

[nickso]

ls1 is pricey over here anyway, unless you get very lucky you can forget it.

[Dave_M3]

where abouts are you?

[nickso]

scotland, are you going to tell me they are dirt cheap now?

[glenn]

i miss the S62 E30 i had, so much so, that i've gone and bought an E39 M5 breaker (accident damaged) and i'm picking it up this week. yes they have complicated electronics, but it's all part of the challenge for me.
i cant wait to get stuck into another project.

[UweM3]

i miss the S62 E30 i had, so much so, that i've gone and bought an E39 M5 breaker (accident damaged) and i'm picking it up this week. yes they have complicated electronics, but it's all part of the challenge for me.
i cant wait to get stuck into another project.

I want a passenger ride when it's done!

[glenn]

i miss the S62 E30 i had, so much so, that i've gone and bought an E39 M5 breaker (accident damaged) and i'm picking it up this week. yes they have complicated electronics, but it's all part of the challenge for me.
i cant wait to get stuck into another project.

I want a passenger ride when it's done!

lol !!, no problem

[Dave_M3]

Sweet!

A mate has a minty E39 M5 with a full system and the noise and brutal power from the thing is unbelievable and thats in a big heavy car that lends itself to a cruiser the rest of the time.

Don't think I could imagine what it would be like in an E30

[UweM3]

Sweet!

A mate has a minty E39 M5 with a full system and the noise and brutal power from the thing is unbelievable and thats in a big heavy car that lends itself to a cruiser the rest of the time.

Don't think I could imagine what it would be like in an E30

maybe undrivable?? more bhp does sometimes not result in going faster.
remember the orange M3 with the Chevy V8? Had a very hard time to get the power down even in a straight line.

[e301988325i]

Cheers Everyone , i've looked and looked for the S52 engine there is a few on ebay , just wondering where people who do these converions get there's from are you buying donor cars?With teh gearbox sitution if i did get a full running e30 325i could i use that things running gear/rear diff and gear box?


Also if i went for the higher version IE the 325i saloon i'd have the vented discs and the tougher struts would this be a better way to start im not really interested in the touring ,


Just after some info with the Diff's what is the difference from the 4.45 and the whole range up to 3.25? any chance of being able to put the e46 carbon box or something like that to try and make the e36 m3 engine sound a tad more like it ?


Cheers Joe

Putting it simply, it's best to start with a 325i, if you don't want the touring.

The standard brakes and suspension can't cope with the stock 170bhp IMO, the stock steering rack is dreadfull at 4.0 turns, 3.0 turn racks are available from an E46 330i SPORT

It's unlikely the diff it comes with will be the best ratio, stock LSD's offer 25% lock up, machining the ramp angles can get you to 40%, the most common lsd ratios are 3.91, 3.64 and 3.25:1. Some (or all?) 2.8 Z3's came with a 3.18:1 torsen diff.

I beleive the standard E36 M3 gearboxes are used, the 6 sp can be fragile, the 5sp tough enough.

The 3.2 evo engine often struggles to make the quoted power output, the 3.0 is more on the mark, and IIRC is a simpler and more reliable engine.

[Dave_M3]

Sweet!

A mate has a minty E39 M5 with a full system and the noise and brutal power from the thing is unbelievable and thats in a big heavy car that lends itself to a cruiser the rest of the time.

Don't think I could imagine what it would be like in an E30

maybe undrivable?? more bhp does sometimes not result in going faster.
remember the orange M3 with the Chevy V8? Had a very hard time to get the power down even in a straight line.

Indeed!
But having loads of power is fun all the same once its not made by a turbo that can eat little children after its went through the laggy period.

Santa pod even showed people that you don't even need 300bhp to post good times when Dan was getting better times than all the S50 lads with his M52.....
Granted, piloting skills are alot to do with it too!

[UweM3]

Granted, piloting skills are alot to do with it too!

can't agree more!