2dr 323i plus 4dr 325e to make 327i but......which way?

[Varden]

A few weeks back i picked up a mint condition fully functional 325e 4door manual with all the bells and whistles...

with the intention to find a suitable 2dr body shell to put it all into.

This is what i found, a 1985 323i manual, the price was right and it even had the head in it that i want.


Its a non runner, but the engine bay looks to be complete....


BUT....


Someone has pulled out the dash pad and all the other bits and pieces, not such a problem with another entire car to cannibalise, but wiring problems can be a nightmare.

The thing is, is the net benefit of the stroker engine in the far lighter 2dr shell out weigh the headache of fixing all that mess up?

I am a fan of the 2dr shape e30 but chucking the 731 head and the 318i diff supplied in the boot of this 323i into my 325e would be a much simpler job.

Oh and would the Ljet in the 323i be a better bet (assuming it works) than the motronic in the E given the 325e's restricted set up.

Your thoughts?

[m_jermyn]

Gday mate,

My old man has a 325E coupe and we have fitted a 885 (325i) head, inlet manifold, cam, throttle body and AFM. The 325i top end is better then the 323 top end as you get larger valves in the 885 head vs the 731 head (323i) the 325i also has a much better inlet manifold then the 323i aswell as throttle body, cam and AFM.... This isnt to say that the 731 head isnt a bad upgrade. Its is great and several people on here have done what your doing.

Im waiting to fit my 325e coupe with the 325i goodies aswell, I have the bits but just need to swap it all over.

As far as which shell to use why dont you get it running in the 4 door and iron out any niggles and then transfer everything over to the coupe, wiring and all.

Mike

[daimlerman]

731 head complete with cam,bigger 325 valves would be a nice touch,get Ant to airmail you a chip for the motronic and break the remains of that red two door.
325 injectors and inlet manifold may be needed to get it running right,but you will get a suprising amount of torque,may even be OK with the stock 325e diff,what ratio is that?

[djk]

Not sure about the 4dr being 'far heavier' - iirc the difference is something like 30kg.

[StuBeeDoo]

Not sure about the 4dr being 'far heavier' - iirc the difference is something like 30kg.

Nearer 20kg, isn't it??
Personally, I'd just use the 323i as a donor. Nothing wrong with 4-doors. At the end of the day, it's still an E30 - people seem to forget that.

[Varden]

Well after some more deliberation and some f@#king hot weather that my daily driver has been roasting in while these two sit in my shed i have decided to wreck out the 2door and reclaim a parking spot.

In fact, here it is being removed after i gutted the last of the steering and susp on the tray.


I will be putting the 731 head on the 2.7 block, i have some stuff off the 2dr on ebay and i am sorely tempted to turn the money from those items into a 525i e34 M20 efi set up for Christmas. The 731 head looks to be in damn fine nick, tho it looks as tho the engine has been a non runner for YEARS!

The 4.1 diff will prolly end up in the 325e too. If its too silly i will put in a 325i 3.73 diff i also have instead.

About the issue of weight, surely a fully loaded 1987 325e with air, steer and power everything and an extra 2 doors would be waaaaay heavier than say a 1984 323i 2dr that is stock with no extra frills bar the p/s and the soon to be jettisoned aircon??

If i put this 325e on a weight reduction diet the air con can go but things like power windows and locks etc are a one way mod once they are out.

I will admit there is plenty of fat to trim before i get carried away butchering the doors. Back seats and belts, every single heat sheild under the car, remove spare wheel (and well).

The list goes on...

[Varden]

Oh and the stock 325e ratio is 3.15:1 i checked that out before i even got the car....it has to go.....uuuurrgh

[Simon13]

don't fit the 4.10 it will be horrible and top out at 80mph!

[Varden]

Is that 80mph with the stock 4500rpm redline?

Cos i gotta say I've had 4spd 1600 ford escorts with 4.1 diff gears top out at more than that (But not much more).

[Simon13]

no i'm just saying its way too short imo. 1st gear will be non existant

[B7]

4:10 is useless for a 2.7 or 2.5. You cannot compare it to any FWD 1.6 Ford Scrap. 1.6 BMW's had those type of ratio diffs because they needed it due to not being able to pull the skin off a rice pudding!

A 2.5 or 2.7 will need a 3:64 or a 3:73 (which Bucloe Alpina thought was best ). You can go to a 3:91 for a 2.5 but even a 3:91 wouldn't suit a 2.7 IMO.

[jbh]

ill be using the 3.64 lsd on my 2.7 think the 4.1 would be to much for a 2.7 are you upgrading to the newer motronic? far more chiping options and gets rid of the 4.5k red line..

[Varden]

So much passion for the tall diff gears.

The car will be a trackday toy, nothing else.

It will be driven to and from the track and that's about it, unless I want to get up to other shenanigans.

B7 wrote:4:10 is useless for a 2.7 or 2.5. You cannot compare it to any FWD 1.6 Ford Scrap. 1.6 BMW's had those type of ratio diffs because they needed it due to not being able to pull the skin off a rice pudding!

Scuse me for showing my age or yours, but when I said ford escort I meant 1969 ford escort Mk1, you know like the Mk1 RS2000, or the 1.6 Lotus escort, or the 1.6 escort mexico (which mine was a replica of) not a re badged mazda.

The smallest BMW we got here in Aus was the 318i e30, hence the 4.1 diff gears. Or 4.4 for the auto....oooh yeah!

Anyway I have a spare 3.45 25% LSD from my 325i powered e21 that now has 3.9 diff gears and a 70% LSD. The 25% LSD centre from the spare diff will fit the small case e30 but not the large case 3.73 diff.

First may be useless, but shorter gears means harder acceleration and from my experience the gearing for a fast road car is too tall for closed circuit use.

There is a youtube vid out there with half a million hits with a 2.8 stroker e30 track car and if you click the link to the spec sheet it has 4.27 diff gears.

Here it is!


And heres the list of specs.
http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78727

jbh wrote:are you upgrading to the newer motronic? far more chiping options and gets rid of the 4.5k red line..

Yup, my e21 has stock motronic 1.3 on the M20B25 and it moves out damn well so i will be chasing one of those setups, very exy second hand here tho, have been quoted $750 for the complete set up from airbox to ecu.

[B7]

B7 wrote:4:10 is useless for a 2.7 or 2.5. You cannot compare it to any FWD 1.6 Ford Scrap. 1.6 BMW's had those type of ratio diffs because they needed it due to not being able to pull the skin off a rice pudding!

Scuse me for showing my age or yours, but when I said ford escort I meant 1969 ford escort Mk1, you know like the Mk1 RS2000, or the 1.6 Lotus escort, or the 1.6 escort mexico (which mine was a replica of) not a re badged mazda.

.

I'm 45 mate! I remember them too but so many guys on here younger that you get into the habit of immediately thinking FWD mk3's or even worse Mk4's

[jbh]

the last "real" escort in my eyes was the mk2

[Speedtouch]

Not sure about the 4dr being 'far heavier' - iirc the difference is something like 30kg.

Nearer 20kg, isn't it??

25kg, according to my Haynes manual.

[djk]

Not sure about the 4dr being 'far heavier' - iirc the difference is something like 30kg.

Nearer 20kg, isn't it??

25kg, according to my Haynes manual.

We're both equally right then. Or wrong, depending on how you look at it.

[Varden]

There will always be a place in my heart for the Mk1 escort 68-75, loved the shape, but the engine, drive train, brakes and susp all needed to be replaced with better kit.

I had no less than seven mk1 escorts in my youth, tho one did get reshelled twice!

Did my first ever trackday back in 1994 in my modded 69 Mk1, and it was lame, well lamer than i expected and when i stopped spearing off the track backwards i discovered that despite all the work Id put into it, it was a fun little road car but my pockets weren't deep enuff to make it into a decent track car.

Years went by and I discovered that a sports bike can be spanked mercilessly the whole day at a race track with little chance of killing it, so I did that instead, even went racing. But this year I became a dad and it has brought my mortality into sharp focus. So for 2010 i will build up an e30 for track use and see how it goes.

B7 wrote:I'm 45 mate! I remember them too but so many guys on here younger that you get into the habit of immediately thinking FWD mk3's or even worse Mk4's.

Doh! You've got 11 years on me, my apologies for thinking you were a young upstart!

My first dedicated trackbike. I was crashing my road bikes at great cost by then....

[mrLEE30]

that bike looks really bad!!!

[daimlerman]

First incarnation of my 2.7 was in a 320ise,the 4.1 diff was way too low,caught the wife pulling away in third....Found that a 3.64 was pretty good.
I will be trying a 3.45 with this engine in project cabbie,see how it goes.
I tried the 3.45 in the touring with the M50 engine,but found it to be just too high,this now has a 3.64.

[Varden]

Daimlerman wrote:First incarnation of my 2.7 was in a 320ise,the 4.1 diff was way too low,caught the wife pulling away in third....Found that a 3.64 was pretty good.
I will be trying a 3.45 with this engine in project cabbie,see how it goes.
I tried the 3.45 in the touring with the M50 engine,but found it to be just too high,this now has a 3.64.

I have caught my wife pulling away in third in my e34 535i, and she won't drive any other BMW of mine cos their too "old".

So my 4.1 diff gears will only be abused by me.

But just now i was thinking back to my first car, a ford anglia with 4.4 diff gears and a worked Mk1 cortina engine, the anglia box had a 4.something first gear and that WAS useless, i was always searching for second by the time my gas pedal had made it to the firewall.

But that thing was a ROCKET....up to 90mph.

mrLEE30that bike looks really bad!!! cool

Yeah i liked it a lot in matt black, i only started crashing that one when I went to the trouble of getting a spraypainter mate to paint it.





racing....


crashing....

[Varden]

Hmmmm....its time i updated my progress towards my 325e project.....

I picked up a donor car for the M20B25 efi set up, for the same cost as i was quoted for the efi set up on its own from the local wrecker.

Can i plug this motronic 1.3 engine harness straight into my 1987 325e chassis harness that uses the earlier motronic 1.1 (1.0?)

Very happy with my purchase.

Spare M20B25 long engine to go with efi.

PO said the head had been recently serviced before he got it, i thought "yeah right." But....it looks pretty clean.

Ports have been touched up too.

So much bigger than my 731 head.

The whole front unbolts, good spares for my daily in the event of a front ender.


I've been told this car has large case 4.1 diff dears so i will have that diff out before the shell goes.

Man those 885 head ports are huge! I should just take my spare stroker 81mm crank and convert the M20B25 but for the prohibitive cost of a full rebuild and custom pistons.

[Varden]

An update after many months.....

I caved in and brought the e30 2dr, well a 1987 325e auto....





I saw it on ebay for a starting bid of $1000 aus with a set of rial 15x7 alloys on it, it was only 4km from my place rather than thousands of km.

So i turned up to look and offered the owner $1000 to sell it to me then and there, which he accepted.

The body is rough and it will need some cosmetic fixing up and a back yard respray to sort it out for my plans.

I have the full manual box conversion kit from the red 2dr i wrecked out...

Not to mention the 731 head, spare doors, bonnet, guards glass etc....

The M20B25 motronic will also be going in, as will the 4.1 diff gears from the e34 casing.


................and the 4dr is up for sale, its too tidy for my brand of butchery!

I can't wait to fettle this 2 dr! The sale of the 4dr will kick it off nicely.