Some Advice Needed Please

[nam]

Hi there, I've been looking though this forum since my brother bought his 325 Touring, i've always loved the e30 but never drove one untill he bought his.

Well on to the question's, i'm looking to build a track car in the new year and get it ready for the summer, my main question is in your opinion which e30 would be best to buy, really i'm looking for the cheapest possible but unberstand good shells come at a price.

my thoughts first off where, buy a 325i coupe, with around 170bhp it would make a good starter track car, but then after looking in to the e30 models more i'm starting to think more about a M42 engined track car, purely beacuse a stripped out M42 powered e30 should way around a ton, were as the 25i will way more with that big 6pot upfront.

So even though the M42 is down on power in time i could add bike carbs and cam's, 4 branch etc and obviously with standalone management. it would then be around the same power as the M20 but somewhat lighter and alot better though the corners imo, plus i love the sound of a high reving 4pot

What even is chosen will be stripped running billy's or simlar r888's, quickrack, short shift etc....

Thanks in advance
Alex

[bmw1066]

high reving 4 pot's soud sh** LOL but if that what ya like then good on ya

I was at a track day in thee old 320 4 door with all it gubing's and I pased a PBMW race 318i and a 318is like thay were standing still. And I'm in a 320 FFS

All I have dun is K&N hot air induction and bye pased the colent pipes to the TB. Now I ether have a 323 or some GOD's gife of a M20B20 LOL

O and I can't drive for sh** but thay could not keep with me

but in the right hand's the m42 and the right kit. then you may keep with a 325 but I can't say for shour??, also all the £££ on the m42 to get near 170 BHP just do the work on a b25 and you will be better again.

[madaboutthe30]

If its stictly for track use, then you'd better go for the m42 because it can handle better, and work on it from there

[nam]

didnt think they were that slow lol, thought with 135bhp it wouldnt be much different to the b25 with is being lighter.

in stright lines the b25 will pull alot better than a m42 but through the twists i would have thought the m42 would be the better car.

thanks for the input mate, this is what i need

[bmw1066]

Probaley shaged engine's LOL as I was very suprised of how easey it was

I don't think it make's all that much diffrence through the corners TBO it's a track car not a race car, and it go's on the driver too. m42 would be better through the twists but not all that IMO as it will be fare to close. but can't say too muh as never driven m42's much, m20's dont way all that much any way's do thay?

sound's like your going to have fun making it

see if you can get a drive in a car or a passanger? :

[Jon_Bmw]

I'm sorry but a very high revving four pot sounds insane, glourious once it has some throttle bodies on it. Much better than a standard 6 pot, it is only when you make 6 pots rev to the same levels they are better sounding. Obviously a standard m42 sounds shit, but you want to listen to a carbon airboxed m3, then say it sounds shit.

Alex the engine mods you list are going to cost you a small fortune, perhaps £3k if you DIY it all. I have assumed you wouldn't be so silly to use 1970s bike carbs and you actually meant you wanted ITB's. For that 3 grand you could probably buy, fabricate and fit a 4 pot turbo lump which will be much quicker and more tuneable in the future. I am thinking a ca18det/sr20 or a saab/gm turbo engine. I am sure if you can spanner alright you could fit one of the above for the same it will cost you to tune an m42. Maximum you are likely to see with an m42 is around 220bhp and that will cost you a frigging fortune.

NA engines are good for track work, but are they worth it when you can easily get 300bhp for the same money? That is something you would have to decide.

[RPM]

I was at a track day in thee old 320 4 door with all it gubing's and I pased a PBMW race 318i and a 318is like thay were standing still. And I'm in a 320 FFS

Come on name and shame the PBMW car, I can use it as ammo at our end of year awards

[RPM]

As for the original post, I'd by the best e30 you can get ie least rust etc

Make it safe and handle well, enjoy it and learn to drive, then look at the powerplant last (you cant win a track day )

If you go 318 or 320 you also have a car you could progress to racing in PBMW ;)

[Brian28]

Will likely be photos online somewhere as well when you give the track day venue/date it happened.

[Jhonno]

325i doesn't weigh significantly more than the iS.. Don't know where you got that from

[Brian28]

Carfolio gives the 325 @ 1209kg, the is @ 1125kg. If these figures are right 84kg is a lot for a stripped track car, especially as most of it is sitting on your front axle.

[GeoffBob]

Carfolio gives the 325 @ 1209kg, the is @ 1125kg. If these figures are right 84kg is a lot for a stripped track car, especially as most of it is sitting on your front axle.

Not to mention the effect this has on the car’s moment of inertia about the vertical. 84kg may not sound a lot (one average male passenger) but the fact that the additional mass of the bigger engine is located further forward than on the the "is" has a significant effect upon the handling. This is the significant benefit that a lighter four-pot offers. Even better if you pull the engine as far back as you can manage. As Jon said, to get more power, forced induction is probably the most cost effective route.

[Jon_Bmw]

If you are not limited by regulations or physical space to mount a turbo, it is the obvious solution.

Annoying getting a turbo in a 205 is a sad affair, but to be honest with it being FWD, it would probably be a bit lame. You need the NA 'curve' to allow it time to get traction.

That 84kilos will also be to do with extra options the 325i has, including things like deep pile carpet etc etc. But no doubt about it, they are more nose heavy.

[Jhonno]

Carfolio gives the 325 @ 1209kg, the is @ 1125kg. If these figures are right 84kg is a lot for a stripped track car, especially as most of it is sitting on your front axle.

I would very much doubt that is accurate tbh.. The m20 only weighs about 15kgs more than an M42!

It was obviously written by an iS owner

[Brian28]

Should be doing some back to back testing at Brands before the end of Nov, a 325 and an is. Both stripped out, mechanically standard with similar spec uprated suspension. Looking forward to that one. I've opted for the 318is to race next season as I'm pretty sure it will be better over race distance, hope I've made the right call.
Alex, depends what you are after really. As Jon and others have said, if its a power thing then a 20 year old BM may not be the best place to start. Each to their own really, do a search for "325 Vs 318is" on here for a variety of opinions. Try to ignore the Halfords car park hero teenagers shouting at each other and look for the sensible stuff from track drivers like those above who have driven a few diferent cars on track for comparison . If I was after a good VFM track day car, would be a stripped out 318is with a basic chip, decent tyres suspension and brakes. When you get a car to that level, you are looking at a *lot* more money to make up a couple of seconds a lap.
In the March meeting a PBMW 318 (basic 8 valve not the is) lapped Brands in 58.something seconds, the series regs allow basic mods only. Same meeting on the same tyres (Toyo R888s) a full on race M3 with more than twice the power and a lot more race mods won the TTRS race with a best lap 55. something seconds. Just enjoy a budget track car for what it is, otherwise you end up spending more and more for less and less returns.

[bmw1066]

I was at a track day in thee old 320 4 door with all it gubing's and I pased a PBMW race 318i and a 318is like thay were standing still. And I'm in a 320 FFS

Come on name and shame the PBMW car, I can use it as ammo at our end of year awards

now that woul'nt be very nice,

[RPM]

I was at a track day in thee old 320 4 door with all it gubing's and I pased a PBMW race 318i and a 318is like thay were standing still. And I'm in a 320 FFS

Come on name and shame the PBMW car, I can use it as ammo at our end of year awards

now that woul'nt be very nice,

yeh but it would make my speach more interesting

[mt1104]

engine is the last thing to think about really, as long as the engine you have is good and healthy you can surprise quite a few people on track days.

I would concentrate on things that can make you quicker while improving your driving technique - things like bushes, suspension, z3 steering rack, brakes / brake fluid, tyres, as much weight reduction as the regs permit.

Perhaps rear camber correction tabs if your handy with a welder, as the e30 suffers from rear camber issues in standard form and I imagine correcting this for track use is beneficial.

When that's all taken care of and you've found the limit etc. I would personally fit a m52, as they're as light as the m42 but give 6 pot torque and you can tune them reasonably well.

[oldbimmer]

Come on name and shame the PBMW car, I can use it as ammo at our end of year awards

now that woul'nt be very nice,

yeh but it would make my speach more interesting

He's not lying either - I watched it happen!! Don't know who it was though...


.

[oldbimmer]

Would agree with the comments so far - concentrate on making the thing handle first (whatever engine you end up with). There's also so much to learn in terms of driving technique that engine power should be last on the list..

A 320i that's 100% fit and sorted in the handling dept. will offer nearly as much fun as a 325i for a much smaller purchase price.. Also, they're a bit on the rare side but a late 323i is surprisingly quick.

I can't vouch for the 318is as I've only driven one once and that was a long time ago. Lovely little engine though, forged steel crank, duplex timing chain.. Nicely done..

For me though, it has to be a six pot!