nitros

[zaust]

not getting another car, how long would it take to plum in?

Takes me max an hour to fit a whole single wet kit. If it is multi jet, the the manifold need's to come off. Drill the hole's, Re-fit the manifold, then the kit. So a day.

[Barx325i]

if you can supercharge and add nitrous to an f1 engine and rev to 18000rpm without it disintegrating then fair enough you have a point

I think 316 with nitrous would be a shed load of fun, and saleable when the engine crane comes along

[cypriot_boy_2k7]

single wet it is?

[Rav335uk]

not getting another car, how long would it take to plum in?

Takes me max an hour to fit a whole single wet kit. If it is multi jet, the the manifold need's to come off. Drill the hole's, Re-fit the manifold, then the kit. So a day.

So price then????

[billgatese30]

but they run on nitro fuel, they don't have N02 button..

Yes they do.
Top fuel dragsters use Nitrous Oxide. Fact.

NOT fact.


Top fuel dragsters run on Nitromethane (fuel), which is currently about £90/gallon and is extremely explosive, unlike Nitrous oxide wich is an oxidiser and needs another fuel to be present as it will not combust on its own. Nitromethane burns quite cool and it is neccessary to run quite lean to generate heat when at idle. When force fed and running at full pelt then the heat from the lean mix and the extremely high compression (almost on the verge of hydraulic lock) is enough to disintegrate the ends of the spark plugs renedering them useless by the time its half way down the track, it diesels the last half of the run.

[N00b]

NOT fact.

My mistake, the top fuellers don't but lesser motors (still producing huge bhp) running on petrol do use Nos.

[GeoffBob]

I think maybe there was some confusion between nitromethane and nitrous-oxide. Easily done.

Technically, nitrous-oxide (NO2) injection is just another form of forced induction since it is used to fill the combustion chambers with more oxygen than would be possible when running normally aspirated. The weak bonds between the nitrogen and oxygen are easily broken by the heat of combustion, liberating additional oxygen (over and above that inducted straight in) to oxydise the available fuel. Like any other forced induction scheme, additonal fuel must be supplied, otherwise the engine will run lean. It is very important to accutrately meter the supply of additional fuel added while injecting NO2, otherwise engine damage could result. The speed at which the additional oxygen is liberated by the NO2 is, however, rather slow, and it is thus necessary to adjust the ignition timing on a petrol engine while NO2 is being injected.

As demonstrated on 5th Gear by VBH some years ago, NO2 can be introduced quite succesfully into a diesel engine as well.

[Barx325i]

as a matter of interest, what can I hope to achieve if I accidentally added some 'special fuel' to my e30 - this particular can is 20% notromethane

[zaust]

[/quote]
So price then????[/quote]

I get new solinoids for just under 200 each, Lines and fittings 50 ish and a new 11lbs bottle full is 175. so max 500 for the whole kit delivered.

Pm me and i will put you in touch directly with james at WON, + it's a insurable with adrain flux ;)

[march109]

Marc, I have a whole system sat in my garage, inc bottle, bottle warmer, RPM window switch, various switches and wiring along with some piping, what do you reckon its worth?

[Ziggy]

Marc, I have a whole system sat in my garage, inc bottle, bottle warmer, RPM window switch, various switches and wiring along with some piping, what do you reckon its worth?

You never did get round to working out a price for me, did you!

[march109]

Marc, I have a whole system sat in my garage, inc bottle, bottle warmer, RPM window switch, various switches and wiring along with some piping, what do you reckon its worth?

You never did get round to working out a price for me, did you!

Thought you said you didn't want it, if you wanted it mate I'd take peanuts (not literally!) but it would be CHEAP! as long as you promised me a ride after fitting it.

With the Nitrous you might also beat my M20 donk down the road!

[UweM3]

not getting another car, how long would it take to plum in?

Takes me max an hour to fit a whole single wet kit. If it is multi jet, the the manifold need's to come off. Drill the hole's, Re-fit the manifold, then the kit. So a day.

FITTING a day, but how long till it runs reliable? Not knocking it, but there is more to it than just plumming it in.

[zaust]

Marc, I have a whole system sat in my garage, inc bottle, bottle warmer, RPM window switch, various switches and wiring along with some piping, what do you reckon its worth?

Please bring the warmer to pod, as mine has failed, I will buy it off you too if needed.

Reckon you should put the kit on e bay as they seem to fech an average of 200 on there.

I have a spare 11lbs bottle fs and Would swap it for the warmer if you want.

[Gunni]

Whatever power an engine can handle running forced induction it will be able to handle the same power with N2O.

[GeoffBob]

as a matter of interest, what can I hope to achieve if I accidentally added some 'special fuel' to my e30 - this particular can is 20% notromethane

Depends upon the ratio you mix it with your petrol. I would guess anything from a moderate increase in performance to a busted engine. Given that these additives do nothing to improve the thermal efficiency of an engine, you can expect any increase in performance to be accompanied by an increased heat output. For anything else other than 1/4 mile drags, you may need to look at improving engine cooling (same as with any performance engine). I can't see this as providing an economical performance solution though, given the cost of nitromethane. Other than in the case case of the big top fuelers, simply adding more air in order to burn more fuel is a much more economical solution. Not to mention that the combustion products of nitromethane are poisonous!

Adding methanol is, however, an altogether different story. Methanol has a lower energy density than petrol. In other words, a kg of methanol will actually get you less energy output than a kg of petrol! Methanol, however, has a very high latent heat of vaporisation, meaning that it draws a lot more heat out of the engine as it vaporises (changes from liquid to gas) than petrol does. For this reason it has a very high "equivalent" octane rating, meaning that adding it to petrol helps to increase an engines resistance to detonation. This also means that adding methanol to a normally aspirated engine (depite the increased octance rating) does nothing to increase its power output. In fact it actually drops the power output (depending upon how much methanol is added) as has been independently verified by MANY test houses.

Where methanol does make a substantial difference, however, is in the case of very high compression and forced induction engines. These engines may very well require the addition of an octance enhancing agent, such as methyl-benzene (toluene, which is generally preferred due to its higher energy density) or methanol, to be able to run (without detonation) at high combustion pressures, but unless you are running an engine such as this, there is no point whatsoever to adding methanol (which is mostly what's in that can) to your engine.

So how do ethanol and methanol fueled cars get away with making so much power? Simple - they flow a hell of a lot more of it through much fatter fuel pipes (with BIG fuel pumps). And because these engines are burning such a high "equivalent" octance fuel thay can run at very high compression, which automatically bumps up the engines thermal efficiency, which results in increased power compared to an equivalent petrol fuelled car - so long as you don't mind filling up roughly twice as often.

[march109]

Marc, I have a whole system sat in my garage, inc bottle, bottle warmer, RPM window switch, various switches and wiring along with some piping, what do you reckon its worth?

Please bring the warmer to pod, as mine has failed, I will buy it off you too if needed.

Reckon you should put the kit on e bay as they seem to fech an average of 200 on there.

I have a spare 11lbs bottle fs and Would swap it for the warmer if you want.

Sorry dude, all sold as one kit.

[zaust]

Whatever power an engine can handle running forced induction it will be able to handle the same power with N2O.

No. Heat is a major factor with N²O. You run 400 hp with it then expect a head wealded to your block and pistons.

[Barx325i]

thanks GoeffBob, that's about as much as needs to be said I guess, I'll stick to my initial thought and leave it exclusively for the 1/10 scale BMW (I wasn't seriously considering it mind)

I always wondered what would happen. so with what you say about leaning the mixture would there be merit in plumbing an air bleed valve into my m42?

[Gunni]

Whatever power an engine can handle running forced induction it will be able to handle the same power with N2O.

No. Heat is a major factor with N²O. You run 400 hp with it then expect a head wealded to your block and pistons.

Do you have examples that state what you stating?

So are you saying that during the burning process a
M30 with say 210hp and 140hp NO2 shot + fuel makes more temperature then a M30 boosted to 350hp?

[UweM3]

BTW how much is a bottle of NOS?

[zaust]

http://www.nitrousoxidesupplies.co.uk/automotive/

[GeoffBob]

... so with what you say about leaning the mixture would there be merit in plumbing an air bleed valve into my m42?

Not sure I'm quite following you? You mean deliberately leak additional air into the intake? Definitely not something I would recommend, would bugger up your idle speed for one thing. Only way to run an engine in my opinion is properly tuned. Unless your question relates to the issue of nitrous-oxide? In which case the opposite would be required. One possible "scheme" to prevent the engine burning lean would be to fool the air flow meter (at the same time as the NOX is activated) into thinking its flowing more air than it really is. That way it will increase the fuel injector firing time (provided the injector size permits and the maximum injector duty-cycle is not exceeded) and thus increase the supply of fuel. But a scheme such as this would require a fair bit of thinking through to make it work properly. It's certainly not the way I would recommend doing it.

[Barx325i]

sorry, by bleed valve I mean one of these ecotek things.. on a standard m42 http://www.potn.co.uk/p75710.htm

I started a tech thread to counter my hijack

[UweM3]

sorry, by bleed valve I mean one of these ecotek things.. on a standard m42 http://www.potn.co.uk/p75710.htm

I started a tech thread to counter my hijack

sorry but what an utter rubbish! 29% fuel savings! Yeah and the pope gets married next month.....

[Barx325i]

taken with a pinch of salt obviously..

[zaust]

sorry, by bleed valve I mean one of these ecotek things.. on a standard m42 http://www.potn.co.uk/p75710.htm

I started a tech thread to counter my hijack

Controlled air leak. If this was a true and good as they say then all manafactrers would do it. Just cause you to go lean.

[Gunni]

Whatever power an engine can handle running forced induction it will be able to handle the same power with N2O.

No. Heat is a major factor with N²O. You run 400 hp with it then expect a head wealded to your block and pistons.

Do you have examples that state what you stating?

So are you saying that during the burning process a
M30 with say 210hp and 140hp NO2 shot + fuel makes more temperature then a M30 boosted to 350hp?

Zaust??
Do you have concrete information backing up your statement?

[rix313]

sorry, by bleed valve I mean one of these ecotek things.. on a standard m42 http://www.potn.co.uk/p75710.htm

I started a tech thread to counter my hijack

sorry but what an utter rubbish! 29% fuel savings! Yeah and the pope gets married next month.....

But look at the testimony of these top publications:

Max Power magazine
Revs magazine
Redline magazine

[Barx325i]

search the word melt on these pages!!

http://www.beckracing.com/page14.htm
http://www.nitrous.info/engine-preparat ... itrous.htm
http://www.ehow.com/how-does_4897788_ni ... gines.html

[GeoffBob]

No. Heat is a major factor with N²O. You run 400 hp with it then expect a head wealded to your block and pistons.

Do you have examples that state what you stating?

So are you saying that during the burning process a
M30 with say 210hp and 140hp NO2 shot + fuel makes more temperature then a M30 boosted to 350hp?

Zaust??
Do you have concrete information backing up your statement?

So this is how forums work these days:
Person-1 posts a real clanger.
Person-2 puts Person-1 straight with a reasonable explanation.
Person-1 responds (without proffering any counter argument) by asking Person-2 to further justify his explanation.

How about, just for a change, Person-1 takes the time to justify their original clanger, or would that risk personal embarrassment?

Zaust, you want to sucker punch him or shall I?

I apologise for the apparent aggression, but this sort of forum nonsense irritates me.

[GeoffBob]

But look at the testimony of these top publications:

Max Power magazine
Revs magazine
Redline magazine

[Gunni]

Do you have examples that state what you stating?

So are you saying that during the burning process a
M30 with say 210hp and 140hp NO2 shot + fuel makes more temperature then a M30 boosted to 350hp?

Zaust??
Do you have concrete information backing up your statement?

So this is how forums work these days:
Person-1 posts a real clanger.
Person-2 puts Person-1 straight with a reasonable explanation.
Person-1 responds (without proffering any counter argument) by asking Person-2 to further justify his explanation.

How about, just for a change, Person-1 takes the time to justify their original clanger, or would that risk personal embarrassment?

Zaust, you want to sucker punch him or shall I?

I apologise for the apparent aggression, but this sort of forum nonsense irritates me.

No that´s how forums work.
I have an assumption and somebody says something different.
I want to learn and ask for the person to explain where they came to the learning.

[Barx325i]

but (and excuse I don't mean anything by this, but it fits so well)

assumption is the mother of all fuckups

[Chuntington101]

To the original poster, i say just do it mate! if you blow the engine then you will just have to swap it out for something else. and while you are there you can fit something a little bigger!

Just make sure you use someone that actually knows what they are talking about! a reputable N2O company should beable to advise you what power to expect and what problems you are likely to face.

and if you get bored of N2O you could always build a turbo kit and run the N2O on top of it. Boosted motors REALLY like N2O. Spray a small shot after your intercooler and watch the Intake Ait Temps drop! also can be used to help spool Big turbos.

Chris.