M3 3.0 or 3.2????

[Dee]

Lads why is the 3.0 version M3 easyier to fit than the EVO 3.2 M3 ????
Help me out here lads as i might be picking the 3.0 version up on sat to fit in my E30

[E30BeemerLad]

I'm no oracle on the subject of the M3 6 pot lumps but from what I have read on here the 3 ltr lump is favoured because the inlet system and the VANOS valve timing equipment on the earlier 3ltr lump is much more reliable.

I don't believe there is any vast difference as far as fitting the lumps is concerned but I may be wrong.

I also am lead to believe the 3ltr lumps are better known for making their claimed power outputs

hope that helps

a 3 ltr lump possibly is cheaper to pick up also, but that may be rubbish

[320Touring]

:yeahthat:

what he said

3.0 is apparently much more reliable-kinda similar to the e34 m5 3.6 and 3.8 debate

[jaistanley]

The 3.2 lump is a bit lighter though isn't it?

Just a thought.

Jai

[Dee]

But am i lead to beleave that you dont need the transponder key on the 3.0 version???? as its just a case of plug in and play

[jmc330i]

The engines themselves are the same to fit. The main difference is the wiring.

All the 3.2 Evos have the EWSii security system (chip in key thingy), which makes the wiring a little more difficult, but its not actually that bad. Some of the late 3.0ltr M3s (after Jan 1995) have the EWSii as well, as mine does, but also some of the wiring is different to the 3.2s. The 3.0ltr has a separate Vanos ECU and a different plug or 2 for example.

The Dual Vanos unit on the 3.2 Evos is meant to be weaker than the Single Vanos on the 3.0ltrs. I dont know how true this is, but I would of thought most would of been replaced now anyway.

The 3.2 Evos usually have the 6 spd box with them, which is a little more difficult to fit than the 5 spd. The 5spd bolts straight in with an E30 M3 prop, the 6spd needs a custom mount/crossmember and prop.

For the E30 conversion, the Dual pick up oil pump on the 3.2Evo will need changing to the 3.0ltr single pick up pump so it will fit with the E34 M50 oil pan.

[Adammcf]

I was gonna say that! lol

[jmc330i]

If you think of anything Ive missed just add it on.

Its all I could think of off the top of my head.

[M3Compact]

For the E30 conversion, the Dual pick up oil pump on the 3.2Evo will need changing to the 3.0ltr single pick up pump so it will fit with the E34 M50 oil pan.

That's interesting.

I know a guy who builds E36 race car engines, he always modifies the 3.0L to use a 3.2 oil pick up, because he reckons the 3.0L suffers badly from oil surge/starvation.

[Simon13]

some 3.2's have had 5 or 6 vanos units in their life at Ԛ£1500 a pop thats scary! but alot have been fine, personnally i would go for the 3.0ltr lump.

Some 6 speed boxes have been know to fail too

Good thing about the 5 speed box is it's exactly the same as the gearboxes fitted to e46 325's and 330's. So if one fails u can get one quite cheap But these are bombproof anyway pretty much

[jmc330i]

The 3.2 lump is a bit lighter though isn't it?

From what Ive heard both the S50 lumps are the same weight, around the 151kg mark - the M20s are around 120kg.

If I had to guess, I would say the 3.2 engine is slightly heavier as it has the extra Vanos bits up top, but I dont think it would be that much difference, 1 or 2kgs maybe.
The M3 3.2 Evo as a whole car weighs 25kg more than an M3 3.0ltr, but this wont be down to the engine alone.

[M3Compact]

Some 6 speed boxes have been know to fail too

Yep, and as well as being very, very difficult to strip, there are no parts available.

[jmc330i]

For the E30 conversion, the Dual pick up oil pump on the 3.2Evo will need changing to the 3.0ltr single pick up pump so it will fit with the E34 M50 oil pan.

That's interesting.

I know a guy who builds E36 race car engines, he always modifies the 3.0L to use a 3.2 oil pick up, because he reckons the 3.0L suffers badly from oil surge/starvation.

Yeah, Ive heard that as well, but for road use or light track use I dont think its anything to worry about. Ian332i used the 3.0ltr pump on his 3.2ltr and I dont think he has any complaints.

The 3.2 Dual pick up wont fit in the M50 oil pan, so its the only way to go for the E30 conversion.


I dont know too much about the 6sd box, but have heard the same thing about it being weak. I think Im also right in saying, that they cant be rebuilt.

[M3Compact]

I dont know too much about the 6sd box, but have heard the same thing about it being weak. I think Im also right in saying, that they cant be rebuilt.

They're not weak, They're very strong, but 2nd and 3rd syncros can wear out.

I only know of one person that can strip these boxes, it's the 6th gear that's shrunk/glued on, and a very special press is req'd. He took the 6th gear off for us and we've rebuilt one (not me personally), but we can't get parts anywhere.

Someone must be able to get parts, they don't grow on trees.

[jmc330i]

[They're not weak, They're very strong, but 2nd and 3rd syncros can wear out.

I knew it was something like that, but wasnt sure. And I remember hearing about the probs with the 6th gear.

I read somewhere that Ian sent his old 6spd box off to someone to try and and repair it, but I dont know what luck was had.

[Adammcf]

If you think of anything Ive missed just add it on.

Its all I could think of off the top of my head.

Was just messing as I dont have a clue what could fit! lol

[glenn]

For the E30 conversion, the Dual pick up oil pump on the 3.2Evo will need changing to the 3.0ltr single pick up pump so it will fit with the E34 M50 oil pan.

That's interesting.

I know a guy who builds E36 race car engines, he always modifies the 3.0L to use a 3.2 oil pick up, because he reckons the 3.0L suffers badly from oil surge/starvation.

the e36 m3gt i had was the 3.0.
it had a dual inlet oil pump that was later carried over to the 3.2 evo

[Dee]

Lads i cant thank you enough for your info. But you must keep in mind that my car is going to be a DRIFT car. with the 3.0 shall i baffle the sump when i rebuld it??

I will be useing the 5 speed as i say i am going to be drifting and i will be trailering the every where

Now as for the wireing loom please tell me more on the 3.0ltr

[M3Compact]

you must keep in mind that my car is going to be a DRIFT car. with the 3.0 shall i baffle the sump when i rebuld it??

Dunno if baffling would work .

But BMW were obviously aware of something not being as it could....

the e36 m3gt i had was the 3.0.
it had a dual inlet oil pump that was later carried over to the 3.2 evo

Interesting.

[Jos]

Would a dry sump not be a better choice or does it not make much odds other than reducing the chance of sump damage?

Know nothing about them, just throwing you an idea

[Andy325i]

I dont know too much about the 6sd box, but have heard the same thing about it being weak. I think Im also right in saying, that they cant be rebuilt.

I was chatting to a guy a while back and they can actually get into the 6 speed 'boxes to work on them (they are sealed for life units normally)

Thought this was handy to know

are you going to Gaydon on sunday mate?

Andy

[M3Compact]

Would a dry sump not be a better choice or does it not make much odds other than reducing the chance of sump damage?

Sorts it all completely, but you need to drive an extra pump and site a remote oil tank.

I was chatting to a guy a while back and they can actually get into the 6 speed 'boxes to work on them (they are sealed for life units normally)

Thought this was handy to know

If he can pull the 6th gear off in order to strip them, he's a well handy bloke to know.

[Andy325i]

Simon, what are the Pro's and cons of running a dry sump setup?

Not sure how far they can go with the gearboxes, but got their number if you ever need it



Andy

[M3Compact]

Simon, what are the Pro's and cons of running a dry sump setup?

No cons that I know of, other than installation cost/hassles of driving a pump, and siting a tank.

Pros are absolute security/knowledge of oil pressure, and no oil drag in the sump. Also, for unique applications, sump fabrication is much easier.

Sunbmw is fitting an S14 in an E36 Compact atm, dry sumping makes the (M10?) sump fabrication easy for crossmember clearance.

[jmc330i]

Would a dry sump not be a better choice or does it not make much odds other than reducing the chance of sump damage?

Sorts it all completely, but you need to drive an extra pump and site a remote oil tank.

That wouldnt be a problem if the cars only for drifting/track use. I would assume the Aircon pump will be removed so the dry sump pump could mount there and oil tank could be anywhere.
The only cons I can think of with Dry sumps are the cost (big ) and finding somewhere to fit the oil tank.
If my conversion wasnt an everyday car, then I might of looked into dry sumping it more seriously.

Baffling the sump at the reservoir end should work to prevent oil surge and the M50 sump isnt deep at the other end at all (the S50 oil deflector wont fit with the M50 sump) so starvation shouldnt be a huge issue.

are you going to Gaydon on sunday mate?

Hoping to mate. Trying my hardest to get the 330i ready. Exhaust manifold final fitting, MOT and Tax on Saturday morning all being well.

[M3Compact]

That wouldnt be a problem if the cars only for drifting/track use. I would assume the Aircon pump will be removed so the dry sump pump could mount there and oil tank could be anywhere.

The only dry sumped S50 I've seen, had the pump down where the aircon would be. The boot would be favourite in an E30 for the oil tank, with lots of nice braided hose cooling the oil down. (But heating the cockpit. )

MOT and Tax on Saturday morning all being well.

Well, all being equal on Saturday AM, we've drawn.

April......





Have you had any smoke out of the tyres yet?

Mine's up and running, but as it's having some final guard fitting done at the workshop, I've held the seats back, so nobody can 'take it for a spin'.

Post some tyre smoke pics. (I might get banned from the forum if I do from an E36 lol )

[jmc330i]

April......



Have you had any smoke out of the tyres yet?

Post some tyre smoke pics. (I might get banned from the forum if I do from an E36 lol )

God, that picture was a long time ago. That was actually taken at about 4pm on November 11th, about 30 seconds after the engine had gone in.

Good to hear yours is running. Ive left it all to the last minute again. I cant start it because the manifold still isnt finished and until it is, i cant line the rest of the exhaust up. But that shouldnt be to much hassle. Its all sat there waiting to go on.

Im anticipating a fair bit of tyre smoke - Ive got atleast 5mm of tread on my tyres at the moment, and Im ready to buy some new ones on Monday morning
Im trying to hold of my brothers digi camcorder to get some Vids as well.

[astondg]

I thought I read somewhere that even the S14 has oil starvation problems ot trackdays and stuff and that the oil should be overfilled slightly to help. I would have thought that the S14 would have had a decently baffled sump being a "race" engine? So if it has these problems wouldn't a normal M50 sump?

I have had my 323 (M20) on the track many times and I don't think I've had any problems though. I don't have an oil pressure guage but I have had a mechanic look at the engine recently when he pulled off the sump to repair it and he thought it all looked fine. So maybe it isn't much of a problem.

Aston

[Simon13]

going back to the 6 speeders it the company that make them Getrag i think who are nobbas and won't make any spares for them to be re-built.

Like anyones gonna pay Ԛ£Ã”šÃ‚£Ãƒ”šÃ‚£Ãƒ”šÃ‚£ for a brand new gearbox!