M42 Rotrex (for sale!) + track build

Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:52 pm

Matt what size oil cooler do you have? Got any pics of it mounted? Thinking of getting a 230mm 10 row one to sit behind the grille in the lower vallance.

Also for the charger inlet, you you use 76mm pipe throughout or did you bring it down for the airfilter?

3inch inlet, 2inch outlet. All the specks are on the rotrex site.

There's me asking that with the C30 PDf and tech drawings infront of me lol.

Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:20 pm

Ive got a ford orian 1.4 auto transmission fluid cooler ill post a pick when i'm back monday as i'm on my phone at the minute.

I put it where it would go on a 325.

Infact its the same one i used in my first set up as a charge cooler rad, its 10 rows but quite wide theres probly a pick in my old thread.

Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:04 pm

Ok cheers bud.

In the mean time I need to diagnose my coolant problem, suspecting that the water pump may also be buggered how do I test it?

Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:56 pm

Oil cooler placement photo.

And one of my favorite "work in progress" photos

Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:01 pm

Nice one cheers

Your FMIC looks like it's jusrt floating.

Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:13 pm

The stainless behind the oil cooler is actualy angle that bolts in three places to the lower chassic brace? and then to the bottom of the intercooler, it also wedged between the chassis legs. the angle was cut from some thick box section which means the oil cooler is almost partitioned from the intercooler, no top mounts in the place when the pick was taken

Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:48 pm

Well I’ve got my super charger lined up through my old work and TTS are supplying me with all the other bits I need, got a real bargain on the whole lot.

I was having a play with some old bits and bobs that where in the boot and found one of the head light backing covers. Turns out the N/S one which has the CAF hole has the hole directly where the intercooler pipe comes through. It also fits nicely and hides the back of the head lights and all the wiring so I’m very inclined to keep it fitted:

Had to modify the O/S one slightly to allow the pipe work and the various wiring plugs etc. Also gave the area a small respray:

Keeps the engine bay looking nice and neat.

Now to combat the fact I’m blocking off my CAF I made up another one. I fitted an aluminium cone jobby to the N/S fog light blanking panel and one to the flat bit in front of the wheel arch. Then simply linked them together with some flexible ducting:

I’m still waiting for the CAF pipe to arrive

Seems people can’t conjure up the energy to post the things you buy in good time any more.

Regarding my previous issues with cooling, I decided to have another go and actually fill it with enough water

I think the problem was I just topped up the expansion bottle and started it, didn’t realise to keep filling it until water also came out of the bleed hole; hence there wasn’t enough pressure to push the air out and the water around the system. Anyway filled it up, started it and the interior heater blower blows warm and the radiator was getting warm”¦brilliant...until it cut out inexplicably

I had been running the car VERY low on fuel and I think it must’ve been sucking up the crap from the tank and blocking the filter. So I popped the filter off to find a date stamp for March 1999

Time for a change

So I’ve changed the fuel filter but it hasn’t made any difference, any ideas? I thought it was when it got warm but today it literally ran for 20-30 seconds, idle dropped, back up, stutter stumble, dead, wont restart, got annoyed went out. It’s really driving me nuts now. Also noticed that the whole assembly appears to be on the piss and the gearbox is fighting its way off of the rubber mounts, the engine looks fine though.

Having a proper ”˜Fuck this’ day today

Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:12 pm

Covers fit well dont they! was thinking about fitting mine again the other day to try and hide some of the wiring for the lights but never tryed it in the end, think i might have ago again now

As for the cutting out thing does it start or run for longer if you hold the throttle open a crack? could it be the ICV not working correctly?

Did you put some more fuel it it before you tryed it again after you changed the filter?

Pleased you got sorted with TTS they do seam to be a pritty helpfull outfit

did you get any tasty bits!!

Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:25 pm

Brings it all together

Yah it's got half a tank of fuel in it now so more than enough for the moment. If I leave it to just idle it runs and conks out, running it with the throttle open a little makes it run for about 10 seconds more. It gets to the point where it just cuts out and there's nothing you can do it just dies then doesn't start. Not currently running an ICV. The only thing I've changed since it was running ok was to put water in it, but it's not loosing water.

TTS suprised me with the price of the bits actualy was pretty reasonable minus the charger lol! Whole lot is costing less than a grand

I spoke to Opie oils too, they said if we can get them a small sample o the fluid they'll try and match it

Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:39 pm

Great stuff, ive got some spare i could send them if you get me an address.

May be the problem is when the ECU tells the ICV to close abit as the engine gets warmer it also changes the ignition/injection but as your not running the ICV the air going in doesnt change.

What have you done to blank off both ends of where the ICV should go in?

Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:17 pm

I've got a hose going from the AFM boot to the top of the manifold. It's very odd, my old engine, used to stall when cold with no ICV, as soon as it warmed up it was fine and could be left alone. I employed the same principle with this engine and it was working. If it starts next time I'll take a video of it may make it easier to diagnose it.

Email Guy at Opie oils he's the one I've been speaking to

Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:12 am

Ok will do, some one on here had a look for me but no luck as the bottle the oil comes in doesnt have a standard oil part number

Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:27 am

appletree wrote:Its cought on geoff theres a company who makes a 2 or 3 speed box but its twice as long as a standard charger and very dear.

The sleaves fit in the inlet and restrict the amount of air the charger can suck in and limit boost but what it ment in the dyno test in the vid is that boost gets to 8psi then seams to 'hold' that boost with a more liniar rise.

Could you use realplayer to download the vid then watch it? I normaly get the 'download this video' flash up if you got to the top right corner of video window.

There was someone running a c30.94 at 10psi on a 1.6ltr saxo using a large reduction sleeve.

GMC up north somewhere who specialise in Citreons and Peugeots use the reduction sleave too. The first Swift GTi we did also used one, but the SC failed within a year. Re-thought the whole thing and never used a sleave after. The SC was fine for another 2 years until the speacial oil pipe was rerouted (not by us) and wore through against jubilee clip from another pipe and lost all its oil... total failure! lol.

Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:56 pm

Looking good Rich, looking really good. Glad everything is coming together with your supercharger. I look forward to seeing it fitted.

Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:57 pm

Cheers Geoff, just wish it would work properly and I knew why would feel all the more satisfying.

Engine mounts, how 'easy' (possible I should say), is it to adjust the engine which it in situe? Thing is judging by my gearbox, the whole lot is on the piss, probably a nominal amount in the engine bay, but hy the time it's at the gearbox mounts it's a long way out. How should I go about doing it? undo the mounts from the under side and ontop and give it a wiggle or will I need a crane as well? (Can I get away with a jack??).

Still no idea why it's cutting out but I honestly find myself getting so wrked up over it I have to leave it alone for a while

Finaly got my bit of pipe for the CAF and glues that in place, after gluing it, I did then wonder how I'll get the valance off because the cone is bigger than the fog light hole

Any way as odd as it sounds I was happy to see it worked, blew through the inner cone and actualy felt it down on the valance

(didn't see that one coming did ya

). I say that because kind thought it's efficency would be fairly low but I can see that at speed it will have a good effect

...speed which I'm yet to get from it

Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:04 pm

Right the search for a seemingly impossible prop shaft goes on.

I've been trying to sort this engine problem. I've made this video:

[youtube][/youtube]

What I found is that it runs for 40 seconds (10 whole seconds more than I thought

) and on one of the runs I made particular effort to listen to the fuel pump. On the 3 runs I did, the fuel pump just stopped and then the engine followed it. I also then primed the fuel pump by turning the ignition on the off again, removed the fuse and then ran it again. The way it stalls is the same so, for some reason the fuel pump is cutting out what could be causing this?

Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:16 pm

could it be a dodgy relay, think theres a fuel pump rely under the plastic cover on the bulkhead you might be able to here it click on when you turn the key.

not sure how dangerous it would be but could you run a live to the pump just to prove that the engine will still run if it has fuel.

Did it have an imobiliser on at some point?? dont some of the older ones let the car run then cut out.

Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:18 pm

It used to but all of that was completely removed. The owner before me drove it around.

Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:21 pm

mmmm, bit of a mistery then.

Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:33 am

Does the pump in question have thermal cutout and/or over current protection built in?

Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:32 pm

Today.....it ran

stupid machine.

Any way gave me a chance to test everything, cooling system is now working and the lecy fan conversion also works which is brill!

Took a small self pimp video of the engine bay while the engine was behaving:

[youtube][/youtube]

Nice

My prop shaft woes are still on going! I think I have an M40 box fitted so trying to find and M40 prop now.

Picking up the Rotrex Monday

Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:17 am

WWAHOOOO well done rich (even though you didnt do anything) lol

might it be worth pulling the M40 box off and finding an IS box, just think you might be making more trouble for your self further down the line...

Did you buy the box as an IS box? could it be an e36 one as if it was an early one it could have still been a M42 but the e36 boxes have different ratios for sure

but dont know how they fisicaly differ.

Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:24 pm

just looking over the pics of your COP fitting rich and wondered what you did with the extra cable in the end and how you mounted the plate to the camcover/head? M5 studding and nylocks??

hoping to do mine over the next week

Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:57 pm

I looped it up and wrapped the hell out of it with insulation tape, pulling apart the connectors seemed a little extreme and it looks perfectly neat

I had 2x 55mm long M6 bolts. Hard to explain. I put the bolt through the plate, then ran a nylock up about 25mm of it (so the thread under it matched the length of the standard rocker bolt) then put a penny washer and the rubber jobby underneath. Idea being the lower half would act as the rocker cover bolt and compress the cover down and then happen to fix the plate down at the same time.

Hope that makes sence

Neil @ A1 BMW has sorted me out with an M40 prop shaft which is the correct length.

I think my servo is on the blink now

pushing on the pedal with the engine off doesn't make the peddle stiff and then when pressing the peddle with the engine running, it doesn't come back up properly it returns very slowly

I took the hose off of the servo and it did make the suction noise it's supposed to and and the one way valve seems fine. Yipeee.

Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:51 pm

Got my COP's fitted today, did nearly the same as you but used some M6 studding instead of bolts.

Are you a proud rotrex owner now then Rich?

Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:52 pm

appletree wrote:Are you a proud rotrex owner now then Rich?

Already started making up bracket ideas from card to get shapes etc. Mine can't be like yours because of my oil take off plate. It's going to be made from uber thick Ali. The idea I have should be ok, got a fabricator chap from my old job who's going to come over so we can discuss carious stuff

Fitting studs for the COP is probs far better than my riff raff I just iused what I had

Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:54 am

Great stuff Rich your going to want that pully swopping soon then so you can get the measurements from it. Still on for santa pod? Be good to have a chat an swop ideas. Still want to me to bring the tool ant big wrench for you to borrow?

Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:53 pm

Sounds good Matt although not sure if there's a great deal you can learn from me! LOL.

Ok so I’ve been having a play with some cardboard, tape and metal strips. I’ve come up with 2 designs so far.

Design number one was my first idea. Simple; bolts to the alternator points and then folds at a currently unknown angle and then has the vertical mount for the charger:

The disadvantage I can see with this is the way the weight is held on one horizontal bend in the material and there will be quite a lot of stress on the bend. The tension from the belt is likely to pull it back across causing it to twist slightly.

My other design has more bends but they’re vertical making it harder for our friend gravity to pull the charger down. It also shows signs of being easier to triangulate for extra strength:

I’m not sure how my tensioner will work with either design. I’m going to decide which will be best then develop that one instead of working on two and having both in a way ”˜half’ designed due to time being split between them.

Took a quick pic of my growing library:

Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:41 pm

I like the second one best, looks to have the least over hang, but looks weak as it is at the moment i would carry the vertiacal up/down bit past the angled bit towards the engine mount to make a "trangle" shape box. this would mean the left right bit coming from the engine towards the chassis leg wouldnt act like the piviot of a see saw.

tryed to draw it on in paint but could'nt open it

Also just a word of warning from experiance

make sure you can get full movment of the pump and pipe work, as the top corner of the pump does move up more than you would think

Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:52 pm

I get ya Matt sounds good

Will have to make sure I can still get a bolt in there or some studding and a nut.

I was thinking of incorporating the bolt hole just above the top right alt hole just so there's another fixing point but will see.

Plan of action is to get an oil gauge system fitted with the money I have left over this month and continue fafing with ideas on this bracket then throw money at getting the bracket right then I'll get all the T'rex ancillaries from TTS

Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:26 am

Rich, not to criticise, but I really don't think cardboard will be strong enough for the intended application

Just kidding

Great looking library you have going there.

BTW, your first design will tend to twist about the horizontal, as you say, when the belt is tensioned. Your second will tend to twist about the vertical. Combine structural elements from both designs (more 3D) and you'll be onto something. My vote is for the second design with gussets and/or fillets added in the horizontal plane.

Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:25 pm

Rich, not to criticise, but I really don't think cardboard will be strong enough for the intended application

... bugger ...

Ok so I have made some adjustments, I have left 25mm around the outside of the super charger hole so plenty of meat there (may reduce if a little extreme), I then appropriately angled the bottum to it looks neat then put in a triangular horizontal section:

Before I start properly measuring this I do need to get my crank pulley fitted up or it's a waste of time.

The M40 prop is shorter than the iS one

I dunno what to fekcin do any more

Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:38 pm

Cut your loses an get an M42 box?

Looking good mate, going to be some weight in it when its done, what thickness ally plate are you going to be using?

Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:34 pm

As far as I've been told the M40 and M42 gearboxes are all the same any way so not sure why I'm having such a hard time finding a prop.

I measured the face of the charger and I recon the maximum I can use for the charger mounting face is 10mm (thats with the ring on the face and then just before the first groove on the pulley which is unused); When I was talking to Turbo-brown about mounting my Eaton he suggested 8mm would suffice. Maybe if Alex reads this he could shed some light

Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:56 pm

Alex was maybe talking about 8mm steel.

Are you sure you've adjusted the length on these props correctly? I thought only the M3 prop was different - maybe cross reference part numbers on realoem.

I think dan 318iS might still have my old M42 box lying around - he's over in Woking so not far. I can give him a bell if you want to investigate that option.