Standard 325i to Track car ADvice please!

[Lloydie38]

Hi,

Just bought a totally standard and tidy 1988 E30 325i in white to be turned into my track car. So I'm after some advice on preparation / manufacturers etc.

I going to strip the interior but it will be driven on the road occasionally but I'm not bothered about a hard ride (!)

The car is mainly going to be on an old airfield here on the Isle of Man (Jurby airfield). The tarmac just has to look at tyres and they start shreading ! It's not a bad track, two long strates and coned areas plus other bends, 1.5 miles long and good run off areas. Duke Videos have a map of the track on their site..

Anyway..

Bilsteins - Are these the No 1 choice or is there an REAL alternative?
Steering upgrades - as the E30 is a bit sloppy!
Brakes - braded hoses OK but PAD manufacturer?? Keep it standard on the calipers?
Cage??
LSD - doesn't have one, a few to choose from?
Ratios - I want the car to excelerate well but and 3rd is soooo long, I have heard about changing the gearbox ratios..??
Air induction kits
I have a chip for it

I think that's it but any other pitfalls to avoid would be appriciated!!

Cheers and look forward to the feedback

[astondg]

I have a 323i that is my road car and I also use it for track days, not a 325i but it should be similar.

1. I have Koni adjustable dampers and they seem ok but I guess you mean a whole Bilstein kit with springs too? Or maybe Coilovers? I don't know exactly what Bilstein makes for the E30. That is what everyone talks about though, or I think the H&R kit or seomthing.
2. E36 steering rack is about 3.4 turns Vs the E30s 4.4 or something. That is working ok for me, on the dirt with opposite lock and stuff too. If you want less the E36 M3 is about 3.2 and one of the Z3s (maybe 1.9?) is about 2.9 or something.
3. My car is fine with EBC slotted rotors and currently Lucas pads, no fade and enough stopping power. Most people reccomend ATE discs though so they are probably the best option, not sure about pads. My 323 is probably a bit lighter than a 325 though so maybe you would want something more? How big you go also depends on the size and type of tyres you will use (how much grip you will have). Bigger calipers and rotors would also be good, as long as there is enough grip, but they will also cost a bit.
4. I don't have a cage, but I would like one.
5. I have a 4.1 LSD and it is great, supposed to be a bit rare though so I think a 3.9 LSD is the next best choice. Or if money isn't a problem I think there is even a 4.5 LSD, maybe not so great for a road car. I can't say I really noticed any difference in acceleration going from standard to a 4.1 but I guess I might notice it get worse if I went back to standard.
6. Gearbox ratios are a bit of a problem, without a huge amount of torque it can be hard to get the right gear for a corner. There seem to be lots of corners where I either go in in 2nd and then have to change into 3rd half way through or I go in in 3rd and loose a bit of acceleration out the other side. The gap between 2nd and 3rd is just too big. I think the 325 sport gearbox helps reduce this problem. I don't have one but the ratios certainly look better. This is something I would really like to fix on my car.
7. Air induction kits don't seem to be worth it unless you have done a lot of other modifications and then make sure that only cool air is reaching the air filter, not hot air from the engine bay. A panel filter might help a little though.

No pitfalls that I can really think of, except don't waste money on a standalone engine management system.

I would probably add an exhaust to that list and people say that a bigger throttle body helps too. Also I am skinny so one thing I found very helpfull was a Sparco Pro 2000 race seat, holds me in much better than even the Recaros that came with my car and helps me to drive smoother and more relaxed. I also have a 6 point harness which helps a lot but people don't recommend one unless you also have a cage. Also tyres make a big difference! I have Toyo Trampio R1Rs at the moment and they are very good for road and track use but another set of wheels and some road slick type tyres just for the track would be even better. Otherwise search the forum to see what people think are good high performance road tyres.

I have a 2 door and pulled out the front passengers seat, rear seat, door trim panels, rear trim panels and that didn't make any noticable difference to the performance or handling of the car. Maybe it would if I pulled out the carpet and roof lining too. I have put mine back in now, they were only out to get retrimmed.

Aston

[Ziggy]

H&R cup kit, through the zone, is the way to go http://www.e30zone.co.uk/modules.php?na ... pic&t=7280
If I wasn't so skint at the mo, I'd already have it, & I will in the not too distant future! If cost ain't really an issue, there's various adjustable / coilover options... Don't know if ground control do a kit for standard e30s, but a conversion to m3 suspension might be an option too?

E36 rack yep See the tech articles http://www.e30zone.co.uk/modules.php?na ... 36rack.htm

Pads; pagid / ferrodo

Cage; see here; http://www.e30zone.co.uk/modules.php?na ... opic&t=976

LSD & ratios; 3.64 would be too long, you probably want a 4.1 if you can find one, or 3.9 would do. What are you running at the mo?

Air filter; my k&n cone sounds great but the standard paper filter probably works better... or a BMC system http://www.e30zone.co.uk/modules.php?na ... pic&t=3643


Then the zone BBTB does apparently work well as would a 6-branch... http://www.e30zone.co.uk/modules.php?na ... pic&t=6997

Make sure you replace all the bushes you can, & most of all... enjoy! Welcome to the zone

[Lloydie38]

Cheers for the feedback and the links, really helpful.

On a recent trip to the North West I collected two sets of 15" BMW wheels for the car with tyres for Ԛ£200 off ebay which was a result. I then called into halfords and got the display 2.5 ton trolly jack for Ԛ£30.

Round black things
Ideally I need to have a set of roads / wets and a set of slicks (old tyres that are illegal 4 the road). I have heard that if I go with 195 / 50 then I will get a controlable 4 wheel slide and good ballance. Any more and apperently it causes the car to be unsettled (???) Anyway, I'll have a look at these tyres you mentioned and see how much Ԛ£Ã”šÃ‚£Ãƒ”šÃ‚£ we are looking at.

Any more feedback greatly received!

[Dan318-is]

iv got some bucket seats for sale that are sitting in a box doing nothing if your interested pal

they recline also so would be perfect for rtack day use with a bit of raod use

there called corbeau carreras, in black, extremely comfy

let me know if ya interested mate would love them to go to a zoner rather than an egayer

[Lloydie38]

iv got some bucket seats for sale that are sitting in a box doing nothing if your interested pal

they recline also so would be perfect for rtack day use with a bit of raod use

there called corbeau carreras, in black, extremely comfy

let me know if ya interested mate would love them to go to a zoner rather than an egayer

Thanks for the offer but as I'm 6'1" and 15 stone I find most seats a bit tight I've found some that suit the 'fuller figure' and were really comfy so 'm going to get some. But thanks for the offer

[karlp]

I am just finishing an M3 for track/race but have also done a 325.

First to consider is - how much do you wish to spend.
Second - is it a serious track car or just fun.

I bought a car for Ԛ£3,800 but have spent about Ԛ£10,000 getting it ready for the track.

Serious Track

LEDA suspension coil overs about Ԛ£1500
Front camber mounts + control arm bushes Ԛ£350
Rear bushes inc camber adjusters and fitting - Ԛ£300
Weld in cage Ԛ£750 + Ԛ£750 for welding (T45 cage)
Seats - Ԛ£250 - Ԛ£300 for the wide version
LSD - 3.91 or 4.1 - Ԛ£250

Lighten it as much as possible - sound deading pads, strip down the wiring loom, take out sunroof and mechanism (then weld or rivet plate on roof).

That would give you a good basic car.

If you want to go further then

Fibreglass bonnet and bootlid
Engine management (this is expensive) - I have DTA at about Ԛ£2200.

That is just a start.


As the others have said there are cheaper options - but think what you desire to achieve before you start spending.

My moto has been spend once and be happy with what I have bought rather than buy cheap and replace at a later date BUT only you can decide

Karl

[Jhonno]

205/50 tyres for the track - will lower the final drive as well making acceleration better...

[Lloydie38]

1988 White 325i Track car project - an update..

Thought I would give an update, thanks for all the advice so far

Bought the following from Performance Parts:
1 1 x Green Stuff race pads Green
2. 1 x Green Stuff race pads Red (might be better??)
3. 1 x Braded hose kit + race oil 6 Line goodridge
4. 2 x DOT 5.1 fluid
5. 1 x Suspension Bushes Powerflex full polyurethane bush kit
6. 1 x Double alloy Strut Brace
7. 1 x Bilstein sprintline kit

Interior from Demon tweaks:
2 x OMP Comp seats in black
2 x Williams Harnesses 6 point
2 x Steel Mounting Frame for seats

This weekend stripped the interior found some rust but a quote from the body shop was Ԛ£120 (both corners of the front footwells gone from the outside -in) plus other bits.

Weight loss through taking out the interior - LOOSE loads of LBS..

Complete carpet 35Lbs
Front seats 40Lbs each (80Lbs)
Rear seat and back 40Lbs
Boot carpet & 2back door panels 10Lbs
Jack, Padding and centre consol 22Lbs
Spare Wheel 35Lbs
Rear parcel shelf speakers 6Lbs
Rear seat belts & mud flaps 6 lbs

TOTAL: 234 LBS (that's one serious fat bloke of a passenger lost!)

OK so the new seats are 8.3kg each but it's a serious reduction.

A few more bits to get like a LSD but so far so good..

Pictures to follow at some point when I get it together about how to post them!

Cheers

Ian

[JCB]

have you got contact details for "performance parts" please ?? are they cheaper that Demon Twonks ??

[Lloydie38]

have you got contact details for "performance parts" please ?? are they cheaper that Demon Twonks ??

Hi JCB,

Performance Products are a really well set up small company who are really eager to help, they answer emails straight away. Well worth a call.
As for price comparison, I contacted 3 companies from work via email for quotes (easier than calling from work when my boss is 10 foot away!!) I said I wanted to buy today and only PP answered so they got the business. Still no reply from the other companies... No names of course!

Proven Products Marketing Ltd.
http://www.proven-products.co.uk
Tel. 01822 613200
Fax. 01822 613223

Cheers

Ian

[JimmyC]

theres loads of weight to loose if you get all that sound proofing out too!

Shit job but tonnes of it

[Lloydie38]

theres loads of weight to loose if you get all that sound proofing out too!

sh*t job but tonnes of it

I know, I've looked at it and all the forums I've read have said what a nightmare it is!! Heat guns to hammers and chissels - any way you look at it it's a ****ing nightmare of a job!

What do you think I could save in weight?

[Davenotouring]

I took all the sound deadening out of my Civic, it weighs lots!

Hammer and Chisel time!

Some comes out as big chunks!

Worthwhile. Weigh it up after!

[JimmyC]

theres loads of weight to loose if you get all that sound proofing out too!

sh*t job but tonnes of it

I know, I've looked at it and all the forums I've read have said what a nightmare it is!! Heat guns to hammers and chissels - any way you look at it it's a ****ing nightmare of a job!

What do you think I could save in weight?

2 bin bags worth- bloody heavy!! Not that bad a job- just dead boring!

Heat gun & wall paper stripper removes it very easily- the hardest bit is cleaning all the glue afterward- lots of white spirit did the job for me.

Remove the bonnet mechanism and put bonnet pins on- thats a fair bit, remove the boot mechanism, remove all the exhaust heat shield, panels that go below the prop shaft, trim the dash down, all unnecessary wiring, lights etc, all unnessesary plastic trim inside and out, and under wings etc, headlining, sunroof & sunroof cage etc

Thats all by not spending a penny on it either, you can then look at lighten panels, drilling, light wieght wheels, ally seat mounts, perspex windows- all depends on budget

My car should weigh between 1000kg and 1100kg with no changes to panels/glass etc and that will be on a budget

[astondg]

My car should weigh between 1000kg and 1100kg with no changes to panels/glass etc and that will be on a budget

According to the user manual thing that came with my 323i it only weighs 1090kg. So I imagine with all of that done your car would be closer to 100kg unless you have a lot of options like sunroof and stuff.

Aston

[JCB]

Performance Products are a really well set up small company who are really eager to help, they answer emails straight away. Well worth a call.

now i am really confused..is it performance parts or performance products and what is this proven-products you put in your post ??? are the contact details for proven-products your work details or are these the details of the company that you got your stuff from

[Lloydie38]

Performance Products are a really well set up small company who are really eager to help, they answer emails straight away. Well worth a call.

now i am really confused..is it performance parts or performance products and what is this proven-products you put in your post ??? are the contact details for proven-products your work details or are these the details of the company that you got your stuff from

Oops, my mistake sorry people....It's now 11.40pm and I've have a few Stellas and i'm confused at my own answer

The company to contact for parts that I mentioned in the previous post and superseeds all other posts I wrote is:

Proven Products Marketing Ltd.
http://www.proven-products.co.uk
Tel. 01822 613200
Fax. 01822 613223

...Now where did I put that stella..

[JCB]

hic hic

[Lloydie38]

Yippee My seats have arrived from Deamon Twonks, how fast is that to the IoM?? - I only ordered them on Saturday afternoon!!

Perfect fit too for my f4t ar5e I'll post the info for all you guys of the 'fuller figure' who are looking for a seat with 5 point harness holes for anti-submarining (or whatever it's called!)

P117 of 2005 Demon tweeks catalogue OMP 'RS' seat Ԛ£157.03 each

Can't put them in yet as some welding stuff to do

Laters,

Excited of the Isle of Man!!

[JimmyC]

Blinding mate- now get that sound proofing out

Just treated myself to a cobra evolution seat- making use of it in the front room until it goes in the car!

Got it for a steal as a bulk buy Ԛ£220!

[Lloydie38]

I looked at the sound proofing and had a hammer and chissel moment on it....What a nightmare! I don't think it's worth the hassle and the mess plus finishing it off and spraying it to look good.

I'll just loose a stone on the boiled cabbage diet and leave it in - any passenger rides with that smell ?? I think not!!

I've also taken out the nearside main beam light and directed air feed directly into the air box - it makes a noticable difference. It's part stainless steel to help to cool the air into the box. I'll only fit it on track days because it look's like I've lost the light or worse it's a 316

[JCB]

Just treated myself to a cobra evolution seat- making use of it in the front room until it goes in the car!

Got it for a steal as a bulk buy Ԛ£220!

where did you get the seat and have they any left - i am looking for one of these seats !!

[JCB]

I've also taken out the nearside main beam light and directed air feed directly into the air box - it makes a noticable difference. It's part stainless steel to help to cool the air into the box

i have just started to do the very same. so far taken the light out and put a ally panel/plate in their (see pics on www.greenbmw.co.uk). do you have any pics/drawings of your design as i am not sure how best to do the next stage. have bought some 4" ally ducting pipe and some flat heat shield blanket - just need to build a box and cover it I guess

[Lloydie38]

I've also taken out the nearside main beam light and directed air feed directly into the air box - it makes a noticable difference. It's part stainless steel to help to cool the air into the box

i have just started to do the very same. so far taken the light out and put a ally panel/plate in their (see pics on www.greenbmw.co.uk). do you have any pics/drawings of your design as i am not sure how best to do the next stage. have bought some 4" ally ducting pipe and some flat heat shield blanket - just need to build a box and cover it I guess

Need to get some pics organised

I removed the whole near side light section and then removed the main beam light which leaves a neat hole. I then got the standard air box and removed the rubber tube at the air entrance to the box and replced it with a similar sized piece of stainless steel tubing.. I then attached the rubber tube to the end of the s/steel and directed it at the neat hole. This creates an 'S' shape tube direct from where the bulb was straight into the airbox.

It's dead easy if I can do it!

[JCB]

i havent got an air box !!! running a cone filter direct to airflow meter. (see pics of engine bay on www.greenbmw.co.uk) dont want to pay Ԛ£200 for a viper kit so will do a DIY job. have replaced whole of light assmembly with a pice of ally sheeting. will then cut a hole in this sheet and attach pipe using a ram air end pipe thinginy probably. then attach this to 4" tube and then.....well this is where i need to think a bit. read some stuff on an american e30 website about building a box to go round the cone filter then cladding it in heat resistant material.

well i got the ally sheeting, got the fireproof sheet (fleabay bargain !!) so all i need is the time.

dont forget mine does not have to be as asthetically pleasing as some as the car is not used on the road