E36 Rack Conversion Pipes

[TheDutch]

Some time ago I remember seeing someone on here make up a whole load of the pipes needed to connect up the E36 power steering racks. I also remember thinking 'oh I probably won't need that for ages'. And finally, tomorrow I will remember today, when I thought 'damn, my rack is busted and I will need a new one and some of those nice pipes'

So I am getting the adapter sorted, and found half an E36 steering column lying around at a local bmw mechanics place, and am now wondering how/where I can get the pipes made to join it all up? Is it as easy as getting brake pipes made (as in get the length right and bend it round your hands), or is it more precise than that?

Any help much appreciated, I read the excellent article on the zone but was still a bit in the dark about these pipes!

Cheers,

Neil

[Demlotcrew]

I think Ian 332i is making another run of these pipes, i know im in the this order you will need to PM him and ask to have your name on the unofficial list.

A

[ian332isport]

All being well, I will be making a start on the next batch of these in a week or so. I have been meaning to do it for ages, but have had so many delays on my car, that I never got started.

I still have names of people who have asked previously, but if people could add their names to this thread, it would help to give me an idea of numbers etc.

Cheers,

Ian.

[jaistanley]

I'm interested.. How much do you ask for them and are they compatible with the (apparently slightly faster) Z3 rack too??

Many thanks.

Jai

[Jimbob]

I thought the Z3 rack wouldn't fit?

[jonbuoy]

I'll stick my name down if the price is right

[ian332isport]

I have never tried the Z3 rack, but can see no reason why it would not fit. I'm still not convinced the rack travel is the same as the E36 rack, even if the ratio is quicker. I suspect the wheels will not turn quite as far with the Z3 rack.

As for cost - the last batch was around Ԛ£55 for the high pressure line from the PS pump to the rack (you need to supply your own low pressure return line, but this is a standard BMW part from any 6 cylinder E36).

I cannot confirm if the price will be the same or not, as I need to see if materials have increased in price etc. I make no profit on these pipes, so any increase is passed directly onto the cost of the pipes.

I have never tried fitting this pipe to a 4 cylinder BMW, so cannot confirm it will fit. It was develped for M20 engined cars. You also cannot use the E36/Z3 rack if you have a 6 branch manifold. It will only fit if you have the standard cast iron manifold, and even then is very close to the steering coupling. If you have old/worn engine mounts, the engine can move enough in corners to cause contact between the steering joint and the manifold/downpipe. Fitting new rubber mounts, or harder poly mounts stops this from happening (at least it has on the handful of cars that are fitted with this rack).

Cheers,

Ian.

[jaistanley]

Has anyone tried one of these (ian's) pipes with a four cylinder car? Also, where can I get a definitive answer about the travel (and hence 45 degree panicked full opposite lock) of the Z3 rack. Last thing I want is to drift/spin into a hedge and my last thoughts to be 'I wish I'd fitted an E36 rack instead of this Z3 one'....

If people reccon the pipes will fit my 318is, I'm interested Ian mate.

Jai

[TheDutch]

Jai, I've also been looking at getting hold of a Z3 rack, but think an E36 one will do, esp. if it's a coupe or M3 one, which I believe are quicker.

Here is some info I have gleaned from the internet (not sure about accuracy though) :

e30 - 20.5 ratio 4.1 turns lock-to-lock
e30 m3 - 19.5

325 - 16.8 ratio 3.4 turns lock-to-lock
328 - 15.4 ratio 3.2 turns lock-to-lock (i think this is the coupe one)
Z3 - 15.4 ratio 2.7 turns lock-to-lock
95 M3 - 15.4 ratio 3.0 turns lock-to-lock
96+ M3/MZ3 - 17.8 ratio 3.2 turns lock-to-lock

The Z3 ones are definitely looking like a good option, though I think the E36 ones have greater travel so simply looking at lock-to-lock figures doses not give you the full story.

I intend to fit one to a 318is. It looks like it could be a close fit from the column adapter piece to the exhaust, but close is fine, right? I don't know if it's fair to say that there's is generally more room in the 4-cyl engine bay so more chance of a fit, or if it's reasonably to assume that because it fits in the Z3/E36 4-cyl cars it'll fit in mine, but I'm fairly confident.



Ian -- Where abouts are you? Maybe we could get you a 4 cylinder car to assess?

[ian332isport]

I think most of the ratio's quoted above are from the US, and they seem to have different racks to us (LHD for starters).

M3Compact has done a lot of testing on rack ratio's, and there's some very detailed info here:

http://forum.bmwcarmagazine.com/topic.a ... e36%2Brack
http://www.e30zone.co.uk/modules.php?na ... pic&t=6344

The reason I'm still not convinced over the Z3 rack, is that I'm not sure if the measuring was taking into account the lock limiters fitted to some racks. This will reduce the travel (and therefore the lock to lock figure), but has no bearing on the actual rack ratio, which is ultimately what we need to know.

As far as fitting to a 4 cylinder car, I have not knowingly sold a pipe to anyone with a 4 pot, so am pretty sure that it's not been tried. If people could take photo's of the clearance between the steering joint and the nearest part of the manifold/downpipe on various 4 pot cars (and the same for 6 pot M20 cars), we may be able to see how much space we have to play with.

I'm in West Sussex.

Cheers,

Ian.

[M3Compact]

The reason I'm still not convinced over the Z3 rack, is that I'm not sure if the measuring was taking into account the lock limiters fitted to some racks. This will reduce the travel (and therefore the lock to lock figure), but has no bearing on the actual rack ratio, which is ultimately what we need to know.

I'm not 100% sure about that either Ian, but the Z3 1.9 rack is deffo,deffo higher geared than an M3 Evo rack or any other E36 rack I've tried.

I pulled my Evo rack out and fitted a Z3 rack which was a straight swap.

The Evo rack and standard E36 rack have the same gearing, but the Evo rack has less total travel/number of turns lock to lock. (I suspect that this may be down to lock limiting tabs on the Evo)

I also suspect that the Z3 rack may have lock limiting tabs, because it has the same amount of travel as the Evo rack. (Tho' produces it with less turns.)

I'm assuming that the lock limiting tabs will be removable?

As soon as I get around to checking the Z3 rack for lock limiting tabs, I'll let you know Ian.

Last thing I want is to drift/spin into a hedge and my last thoughts to be 'I wish I'd fitted an E36 rack instead of this Z3 one'....

Same here.

I've got a 3.4 turn standard full travel and an Evo rack surplus if anyone's interested.

[TheDutch]

Ian -- I'll try and get a couple of pics of the area you requested tomorrow and you can see what you reckon. It looks ok to me, but I'm of course I'm no expert on this.
Also, is there likely to be any issues regarding the high pressure pipes since the pump is in a slightly different location on the 4-cyl cars?


M3Compact -- PM sent

[ian332isport]

is there likely to be any issues regarding the high pressure pipes since the pump is in a slightly different location on the 4-cyl cars?

Again, we are in unknown territory here, so hard to say for sure.

I make the high pressure pipe in two parts (Metal hard line, and the flexi bit). I supply the metal line with some extra length that needs to be trimmed to length on the car. The Flexi section is then secured with a hydraulic compression fitting. This would hopefully give enough flexibility to allow for any differences between the 4 pot and 6 pot configurations.

Ian.

[TheDutch]

Ian - there are a couple of pics of the 318is column here :

http://www.dinplug.com/stuff/Column/

I don't know if you can really judge the clearance that well, but the closest part to the exhaust downpipe is just after the rubber coupling joint. How does that compare with the M20 cars?

Neil

[ian332isport]

Ian - there are a couple of pics of the 318is column here :

http://www.dinplug.com/stuff/Column/

I don't know if you can really judge the clearance that well, but the closest part to the exhaust downpipe is just after the rubber coupling joint. How does that compare with the M20 cars?

Neil

Neil,

It's hard to say for sure from those pictures, but it may fit. The main problem on an M20 car, is the lower UJ on the steering rack. I don't have any pictures of a standard M20 setup, so cannot really compare the two.



Most of the difference in position is at the rack end of the joint, so you may find the rubber coupling is okay. The E36 coupling has a smaller metal shield around the rubber bit, so this will also help.

Cheers,

Ian.

[TheDutch]

Well if that is the case then I suspect there will be plenty of room, but I'll have another look a bit later to double check.

As far as the pipes go, the significant difference will be a movement of the pump towards the rear of the car, which hopefully will be covered by the extra length.

So all is looking good, let us know when you are ready to get some more made up and I'll almost certainly stick my name down.

Cheers,

N

[jaistanley]

If you're convinced Mr.Dutch, so am I. Hell, I'll give it a whirl and if I really cant pikey it in I can sell it on eh?

Stick my name down too then Ian...

Thanks for this/that..

Jai