yeah because I haven't got an Aluminium welderGeoffBob wrote:Very nice Uwe, some great stainless work.
never mind, at least I can tell you for sure it won't fall apart even if I hit a concrete wall
and another S50 swap.....
Moderator: martauto
I know I might be a bit OTT with this, but it was just bugging me and I had to have a go at it! You know one of these things which are always in your mind afterwards, why didn't I.......
the S50 I bought is coming out of a ZM Roadster and BMW had to make some compromises with the manifold for No6 to clear the chassis and steering rack and flattenend the pipe quite a bit.
first of all, as usual, I had to make another tool! I wonder if this will ever have an end (making tools I mean.......).
I saw this sort of "puller" tool at a body shop where they weld a thin pin on the panel to remove dents without taking any trim off.
there it is, a rod with M5 thread in one end and a weight to "pull"
next thing was to weld a M5 bolt to the flat piece of the manifold. You can see how much the pipe is crushed to clear whatever it needs to clear
next step was to screw the puller rod on the M5 bolt
then I heated the flat area with a torch red hot and started to "pull" the flat face out by banging the weight upwards against the stop on the rod. I couldn't take any pictures of this because I am only having two arms and was quite busy anyway.
here the result. Not 100% round but think still better than the flat bit
the S50 I bought is coming out of a ZM Roadster and BMW had to make some compromises with the manifold for No6 to clear the chassis and steering rack and flattenend the pipe quite a bit.
first of all, as usual, I had to make another tool! I wonder if this will ever have an end (making tools I mean.......).
I saw this sort of "puller" tool at a body shop where they weld a thin pin on the panel to remove dents without taking any trim off.
there it is, a rod with M5 thread in one end and a weight to "pull"
next thing was to weld a M5 bolt to the flat piece of the manifold. You can see how much the pipe is crushed to clear whatever it needs to clear
next step was to screw the puller rod on the M5 bolt
then I heated the flat area with a torch red hot and started to "pull" the flat face out by banging the weight upwards against the stop on the rod. I couldn't take any pictures of this because I am only having two arms and was quite busy anyway.
here the result. Not 100% round but think still better than the flat bit
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SteMarsden
- E30 Zone Regular
- Posts: 381
- Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:00 pm
- Location: Wirral
Slide hammer...
Its a piece of p1ss doing this on a bodywork, but you have made a very good job of that manifold
Its a piece of p1ss doing this on a bodywork, but you have made a very good job of that manifold
BMW E30 318i ex PBMWC track car
2011 VW Passat Est
2011 VW Passat Est
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jaistanley
- E30 Zone Addict
- Posts: 2517
- Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: Coventry and Essex
That's good stuff..
I fitted the same pump in-tank but know that it can cause problems. Especially as I have the original E30 6 pot fuel return on the opposite side of the tank at the moment. It'll do for now to get the car on the road.
Here at work I have access to loads of 304 stainless sheet, TIG welders and pipe bosses that I can projection (induction) weld into the tank (and the push-fit connectors that go onto them). I've been eyeing up the dead space on the opposite side to the battery in the boot. I was thinking of making a swirl pot and having a nice large fuel filter from something modern and big like a V8 5 series or something mounted next to it. Then bag them up, put it in a bag of expanding foam in the space so it makes a 'shell' to support it.
Good work Uwe.
Jai
I fitted the same pump in-tank but know that it can cause problems. Especially as I have the original E30 6 pot fuel return on the opposite side of the tank at the moment. It'll do for now to get the car on the road.
Here at work I have access to loads of 304 stainless sheet, TIG welders and pipe bosses that I can projection (induction) weld into the tank (and the push-fit connectors that go onto them). I've been eyeing up the dead space on the opposite side to the battery in the boot. I was thinking of making a swirl pot and having a nice large fuel filter from something modern and big like a V8 5 series or something mounted next to it. Then bag them up, put it in a bag of expanding foam in the space so it makes a 'shell' to support it.
Good work Uwe.
Jai
Don't worry Uwe, I did my whole fuel tank from stainless. Despite my whole effort to strip weight from the car I felt that I couldn't take a chance with the fuel tank. In hindsight I should have made an Aluminium tank and fitted a sheet of stainless across its underbelly (with maybe a 25mm thick sheet of medium density PU foam in between) to protect it.UweM3 wrote:yeah because I haven't got an Aluminium welderGeoffBob wrote:Very nice Uwe, some great stainless work.
never mind, at least I can tell you for sure it won't fall apart even if I hit a concrete wall
From what I have read of your work I don't think it will be long before you buy your next welder. Either that or you'll build one
Great work on the No.6 header tube BTW. At first glance I thought you had drilled that bolt in
Then I read more closely...haha, that would have been funny! The first lot of pictures was taken with my phone, so you can't see a lot of details. There are actually two small tacks on the bolt in the picture. If you ever want to do the same, use M6 bolts and tack in 4 places! My 2 tacks didn't come off, but with a larger screw head and more weld tacks it will pull nicer/flatter.GeoffBob wrote:
Great work on the No.6 header tube BTW. At first glance I thought you had drilled that bolt in
sorry but no. I haven't got the proper tools available and it has taken me 2 days already and still not finished cos I have to cut sheet out with an angle grinder and turn pipe connectors from solid bar. I could draw something up and get it laser cut or punched but that would mean 10+ to make it cost effective.buster wrote:Uwe.
I realy could do with a swirl pot do you fancy making me one the same as yours ?
There are some nice Alli swirlpots for £60-80 on the market.
You don't really need one with the pump in it.
I only made it because I wanted to fit a new pump anyway and the in tank assembly I bought was cheap as well. If the OEM pump assy wouldn't be such kinked design, a straight piece of SS tube would be the ideal solution and fast to make.buster wrote:ok,
ive seen the alli ones but thought yours with the pump in is a good idea.
busy with work for a change......crossie wrote:Hows it coming on Uwe?
I am making small parts like adjustable drop links, swirlpots, stretch gauge etc.
Need to finish engine mounts and complete the engine and I am ready to drop it in.
Just ordered a box full of small parts from C3BMW which added up quite considerably. Water hoses, clips, MAF, etc etc.
On the other hand I started even more jobs, like GRP front bumper. A quick weigh in has shown that there will be 15kgs missing afterwards!
EDIT:
Done a little bit of testing . Pumped my swirlpot upt to 2bar (29psi) and NOTHING is leaking. And that for the first attempt.
well I was expecting this
(ok it could have also gone wrong, just trying to cheer myself a little bit up)
Very nice project, and very nice fabrication skills.
I am doing the same project myself, only a B30.
I have always read that the original S50 exhaust manifold are hitting the sway bar or something. Isn't this true?
If so, I will not need to modify my exhaust manifold... only the bulkhead.
I will follow this project thread
I am doing the same project myself, only a B30.
I have always read that the original S50 exhaust manifold are hitting the sway bar or something. Isn't this true?
If so, I will not need to modify my exhaust manifold... only the bulkhead.
I will follow this project thread
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E30BeemerLad
- Married to the E30 Zone
- Posts: 16806
- Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: Norfolk
I can't speak for the S50 lump, but I have fitted a S50 exhaust manifold to my M50 lump and it does hit the anti roll bar. I got round this by lowering the ARB by extending the U clamps and fitting a 5mm piece of plate on top of the ARB bush.
The bar does still touch the manifold when the car is jacked up and the suspension is at maximum extension.
I had to hammer the bulkhead slightly just in the corner of the transmission tunnel to get the manifold to clear the bulkhead.
The bar does still touch the manifold when the car is jacked up and the suspension is at maximum extension.
I had to hammer the bulkhead slightly just in the corner of the transmission tunnel to get the manifold to clear the bulkhead.
while fitting the swirl pot in the boot I discovered that I need a pipe connector. Ok I could just buy one but I have this need to make it myself syndrome. And the hassle of finding one, paying for the postage bla bla bla bla.
So the lathe was switched on again. Just making that pipe connector......
here is the little fella, for 1/2" ID fuel pipe from lifter pump to swirlpot. It will get a little tab welded to it to bolt it to the now redundant external fuel pump bracket. Yes overkill, but I just like it
and then I got carried away.....
I have a good collection of part for projects I always wanted to add to my car when the S14 was still fitted and running on Alpha-N. Fuel pressure gauge for example.
Here a little T-piece take off for the fuel line to fit a pressure sender
#
milled/turned from solid
I
the oil pressure warning light switch was missing on my S50 so why not fit that oil pressure gauge I always wanted to fit to the S14??? Only problem is that the sender is M10x1 and the thread in the S50 is M12x1.5
but I have all the suitable taps and dies so I made a little adapter piece. a M12x1.5 banjo fitting will replace the oil pressure switch and some pipe work will end in another M12 banjo (pictured) to remote locate the pressure sender in the engine mount arm.
one I prepared earlier. Adjustable drop link for front ARB. I relocated the ARB in front of the engine and this requires some longer drop links. I want to use the CDS 316 Stainless tube, weld a LH and RH threaded bung in each end and some rod ends. Just needed to make blots to connect it to the strut in the same distance than the OEM one.
here are the parts, will post pictures of the finished part once completed
also found some time to make my stretch gauge looking more pretty
from this
to this
just waiting for the bearing shells to arrive (which I ordered wrong.....)
So the lathe was switched on again. Just making that pipe connector......
here is the little fella, for 1/2" ID fuel pipe from lifter pump to swirlpot. It will get a little tab welded to it to bolt it to the now redundant external fuel pump bracket. Yes overkill, but I just like it
and then I got carried away.....
I have a good collection of part for projects I always wanted to add to my car when the S14 was still fitted and running on Alpha-N. Fuel pressure gauge for example.
Here a little T-piece take off for the fuel line to fit a pressure sender
#milled/turned from solid
I
the oil pressure warning light switch was missing on my S50 so why not fit that oil pressure gauge I always wanted to fit to the S14??? Only problem is that the sender is M10x1 and the thread in the S50 is M12x1.5
but I have all the suitable taps and dies so I made a little adapter piece. a M12x1.5 banjo fitting will replace the oil pressure switch and some pipe work will end in another M12 banjo (pictured) to remote locate the pressure sender in the engine mount arm.
one I prepared earlier. Adjustable drop link for front ARB. I relocated the ARB in front of the engine and this requires some longer drop links. I want to use the CDS 316 Stainless tube, weld a LH and RH threaded bung in each end and some rod ends. Just needed to make blots to connect it to the strut in the same distance than the OEM one.
here are the parts, will post pictures of the finished part once completed
also found some time to make my stretch gauge looking more pretty
from this
to this
just waiting for the bearing shells to arrive (which I ordered wrong.....)
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GermanGorilla
- E30 Zone Regular
- Posts: 528
- Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:00 pm
Hi,
Uwe- your certainly getting this 6 pot bug
thing really bad !!
Double ended drop links, rod ends,
you have got it real bad, there is no cure
you know.
Wait to you start rod ending all steering tie rods,
and then using ''inserts'' for differing
size high tensile bolts and so on !!
And then start getting into NAS Bolts for
Metric rod ends, which require special
''top hats'' and K nuts and then the fun
really starts.
I think the sub 7.50 Ring time is starting to
kick in a little ?
Looking really good and professional as usual.
Regards,
The Gorilla.
Uwe- your certainly getting this 6 pot bug
thing really bad !!
Double ended drop links, rod ends,
you have got it real bad, there is no cure
you know.
Wait to you start rod ending all steering tie rods,
and then using ''inserts'' for differing
size high tensile bolts and so on !!
And then start getting into NAS Bolts for
Metric rod ends, which require special
''top hats'' and K nuts and then the fun
really starts.
I think the sub 7.50 Ring time is starting to
kick in a little ?
Looking really good and professional as usual.
Regards,
The Gorilla.
UPDATE
manage to finish the swirlpot fitting! At least ONE thing I can tick off on my list.
all bolted down in the boot. Used the E36 fuel filter
lot of holes to drill!
tied it up as high as possible but may also fit a heat shield. Wnat to wait till exhaust goes in
this is where the old fuel pump used to be. I broke my own codec and BOUGHT a pipe connector!! (the little blue thingie) I am not sure if I can suppress the urge to actually make one out of stainless steel and take the plastic one out. Just doesn't fit in the picture, plastic...
manage to finish the swirlpot fitting! At least ONE thing I can tick off on my list.
all bolted down in the boot. Used the E36 fuel filter
lot of holes to drill!
tied it up as high as possible but may also fit a heat shield. Wnat to wait till exhaust goes in
this is where the old fuel pump used to be. I broke my own codec and BOUGHT a pipe connector!! (the little blue thingie) I am not sure if I can suppress the urge to actually make one out of stainless steel and take the plastic one out. Just doesn't fit in the picture, plastic...
My first post! New to the forum.
The build looks really good, like your attention to detail.
Im in the process of doing the same conversion. I like the idea of the ice hockey pucks as engine mounts and am going to do similar. Did you use the original engine mounting arms? Didn't know how the cast ali ones would fair being almost solidly mounted.
Thanks.
James
The build looks really good, like your attention to detail.
Im in the process of doing the same conversion. I like the idea of the ice hockey pucks as engine mounts and am going to do similar. Did you use the original engine mounting arms? Didn't know how the cast ali ones would fair being almost solidly mounted.
Thanks.
James
James, I used the ice hockey pucks on my S14 engine with the Aluminum arms without any problems for a few years. The guy I have the idea initially from is using pucks since years and never had an issue.jimmybob wrote:My first post! New to the forum.
The build looks really good, like your attention to detail.
Im in the process of doing the same conversion. I like the idea of the ice hockey pucks as engine mounts and am going to do similar. Did you use the original engine mounting arms? Didn't know how the cast ali ones would fair being almost solidly mounted.
Thanks.
James
I am using the Z3 Roadster engine mount arms which I believe are similar than E36 M3. Might be worth checking relaooem or the EPC.
How far are you with your conversion?
Thanks for the reply.
I may er on the side of caution regarding the engine mounts and fabricate them from mild steel. Im all about belt and braces!
The conversion is going ok. Engine and exhaust manifolds are all in. Just need to figure out what im going to do about the sump. I may fabricate a new sump as I don’t want to chop about the sub frame.
Im thinking about using an aftermarket ECU as I have a DTA PRO 8 sitting here doing nothing.
I’ll post some picture when I dig the camera out.
Im aiming to be done for the BMW event at santa pod on the 20th September. When i say done, i mean running as i don't think it will ever be done!!
I may er on the side of caution regarding the engine mounts and fabricate them from mild steel. Im all about belt and braces!
The conversion is going ok. Engine and exhaust manifolds are all in. Just need to figure out what im going to do about the sump. I may fabricate a new sump as I don’t want to chop about the sub frame.
Im thinking about using an aftermarket ECU as I have a DTA PRO 8 sitting here doing nothing.
I’ll post some picture when I dig the camera out.
Im aiming to be done for the BMW event at santa pod on the 20th September. When i say done, i mean running as i don't think it will ever be done!!
Not exactly a lot of work, in fact less work than getting the OEM ECU wired up with all its extra's. Also it means i can remove all the unnecessary ancillaries. Added to this the obvious gain in HP and extra functionality of the DTA I am sure it will be worth the effort. 
hmmmm, whats so difficult in plugging an OEM engine loom in?jimmybob wrote:Not exactly a lot of work, in fact less work than getting the OEM ECU wired up with all its extra's. Also it means i can remove all the unnecessary ancillaries. Added to this the obvious gain in HP and extra functionality of the DTA I am sure it will be worth the effort.
A standalone ECU is far more work to wire up IMHO and all the required mapping. You will loose the knock control for starters.
Where do you think you will gain horsepower?
Deleting the Vanos???? And which ancillaries do you consider unnecessary?
Just trying to figure out what your goal is.
No problem to map as i have free use of a dyno.
I have no intention of removing the vanos unit, it’s hydraulically controlled and i can take advantage of the cam timing when mapping. Will also be using a knock sensor as this is supported by the DTA
Not that i have looked into wiring the original ecu as i had no intention of using but by the looks of the huge amount of wires and the size of the ecu plug there is a considerable amount of sensors etc. There must be a lot of functions, sensors etc that are redundant when installed in the E30?
As im sure your aware BMW spend an inordinate amount of time mapping the ecu’s. This is done with pure drivability, economy and variance of fuel octanes, fuel qualities etc. As i will be mapping for maximum HP not economy (being able to choose good fuels etc) i would expect anywhere between 10 and 30HP gain.
Not the first time i have mapped an OEM engine with no changes other than the ECU and never failed to gain HP and flatten the torque curve.
I will look into the engine ancillaries i intend to remove and let you know. Haven't started this bit yet.
Like the questions as it's good to re-think options and learn from other. I certainly have plenty to learn about BMW's as it the first time dealing with them.
I have no intention of removing the vanos unit, it’s hydraulically controlled and i can take advantage of the cam timing when mapping. Will also be using a knock sensor as this is supported by the DTA
Not that i have looked into wiring the original ecu as i had no intention of using but by the looks of the huge amount of wires and the size of the ecu plug there is a considerable amount of sensors etc. There must be a lot of functions, sensors etc that are redundant when installed in the E30?
As im sure your aware BMW spend an inordinate amount of time mapping the ecu’s. This is done with pure drivability, economy and variance of fuel octanes, fuel qualities etc. As i will be mapping for maximum HP not economy (being able to choose good fuels etc) i would expect anywhere between 10 and 30HP gain.
Not the first time i have mapped an OEM engine with no changes other than the ECU and never failed to gain HP and flatten the torque curve.
I will look into the engine ancillaries i intend to remove and let you know. Haven't started this bit yet.
Like the questions as it's good to re-think options and learn from other. I certainly have plenty to learn about BMW's as it the first time dealing with them.
not really S50 swap related but may come in handy.
Made myself a cheap leak down tester to diagnose the missus 318iS running problems....
just need to make a bung for replacing the spark plug. I tried to gut an old spark plug but no success. Anybody done that??
Made myself a cheap leak down tester to diagnose the missus 318iS running problems....
just need to make a bung for replacing the spark plug. I tried to gut an old spark plug but no success. Anybody done that??
i used an old plug to make a tool that connected to an air supply, this was used for valve stem seal replacement. basically crush the plug in a vice and then break up the ceramic with a hammer & punch. it can take a few plugs to get it.
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ShepsEvo3
- Master of go faster
- Posts: 1881
- Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:00 pm
- Location: Bristol/Wiltshire
Uwe,UweM3 wrote:another S50 swapper posted this graph on S14.net
Quite impressive methinks
Great work there mate, only just come across this thread and its an entertaining read
Love the comments on the graph with costs!
Agree with the AFR comments too.. I find they all run pretty rich in the midrange and top end and they make more power when the fueling is sorted, but beware!!! Not always is the map out on these cars. They suffer from heat and by the end of a dyno run, the ECU could be putting in more fuel and retarding the timing because of the increase in temperature, hence you get low AFR figures.
Looking forward to seeing it all done and dusted
E30 M3 Unichip Alpha N style conversions, this is the ultimate for extracting the best out of your S14 M power car.
Also, Live mapping of your Standard Motronic ECU for optimising all your modifications.
www.sabre-tuning.co.uk
Also, Live mapping of your Standard Motronic ECU for optimising all your modifications.
www.sabre-tuning.co.uk