E46 M3 questions

[SilverShadow]

Hi Guys,

I have a few questions regarding this car.

What's the difference between a preface lift and face lift car? (what were the dates)

Also SMG vs 6 speed manual:

Is there a variation of the SMG gearbox, as I seen ads that quote smg 2 -is there a smg 1, what's the difference?

Whats the pro's and con's of the 2 boxs?

Which is recommended to get (reliability/drivability)

Thanks

Jags

[SilverShadow]

Anyone?

[E30Mark]

Could try www.e46zone.co.uk !!!

No association with the 'original' zone

[Maxus]

Not an expert by any means but have spent quite a while looking into these as they are too good value to ignore. I have driven and been out in a few of them.

Facelift added LED rear lights on the M3. None M3's also had a facelift front (upswept indicators, re-shaped grille). Might be some other bits.

SMG1 was on the E36 M3. SMG2 on the E46. SMG1 is often criticised as being terrible. No experience of it myself. SMG2 is a great gearbox to use but can be jerky to drive. Fastest setting can feel a bit harsh on the car.

However.....searching on E46 sites you will find lots of stories of big repair bills on the SMG2 system and people saying they would never touch another one.

I would play safe with a manual especially on a non warrantied car.

[stuartgallafant]

I work for BMW and drive them a lot. If you claim yourself to be a 'driver' then I would take the 6 speed manual, personally. The SMG boxes are great in theory, but I think the actual practice of them is poor. Having said that, M3 CSL SMG is great, and yes, they are different, only by the programming software they run, but you can feel every bit of difference

I've changed numerous clutches in SMG's, all of them below the 60'000 mile mark I reckon. To get the box out, the shifter unit has to all be disconnected which means when putting it all back in, a bleed routine carried out on the GT1 machine (BMW's diagnostic computers) has to be completed, which takes roughly an hour, let alone the actual time to change the clutch, roughly 6 hours i think. Big bill's!!!

In my personal opinion, I wouldnt buy one. They're far too jerky at low speeds and i dont think you get enough feel of the car through it. The only way to find out is to drive them, as many as possible!!

[don-king]

smg 2 is the newer version of the smg gearbox. E36 M3's came with SMG 1 which had its faults thats why BMW came up with a newer version called SMG 2 for the e46 M3's. The majority of People prefer the e36 M3 in manual and the e46 M3 in SMG.........
Regarding the SMG 2 vs the six speed manual then go for the SMG 2 because they come with the F1 Paddleshift which is basically changing gears from the steering wheel which is like driving it like manual and you can also drive in SMG which is like automatic. I have a e46 M3 SMG 2 and I have to say the SMG 2 is better and also holds its value more than the 6 speed manual. So when you sell the car you will sell it easier than if you had a manual and it would also sell much easily because a lot of people prefer the smg in the e46 M3's.

[kdevitt]

Facelift also added a sleeker piece above the reg plate on the rear boot lid as well as the LED's. I don't like SMG personally, but if you're into tracking the car then its ideal!

Don't think theres any way an SMG car is worth more than manual though? Most peoples preference is the manual.

[don-king]

No, the BMW e46 m3 SMG 2 is worth more than a manual version and the SMG is also the more desirable of the two with people. That is a fact! .........
Have a look at the online car websites such as Autotrader and Pistonheads, etc. The SMG 2 sells for a higher price than a manual and the SMG 2 sells better and more quicker than the manual version because it is most peoples preferance due to the fact that is has F1 paddleshift (F1 gear changing) which is like manual and you could also have it in the SMG mode .

[stuartgallafant]

No, the BMW e46 m3 SMG 2 is worth more than a manual version and the SMG is also the more desirable of the two with people. That is a fact! .........
Have a look at the online car websites such as Autotrader and Pistonheads, etc. The SMG 2 sells for a higher price than a manual and the SMG 2 sells better and more quicker than the manual version because it is most peoples preferance due to the fact that is has F1 paddleshift (F1 gear changing) which is like manual and you could also have it in the SMG mode .

Calm down, handbags...

The only reason it sells for more is because people payed more for it in the first place. When they were released, the SMG version was about 5k more expensive than the manual one. Is it worth it... Not a penny! To be honest, the people who buy SMG M3's are the type of people that like to think they can drive a fast car properly, but they cant really! So they have to funk it up with some jazzy toys. No offence don-king, but you clearly aren't even sure yourself what SMG is... Automatic? It stands for "sequential Manual Gearbox" but even thats a lie. The only thing sequential about it, is the fact you can just press a button to change gear. Underneath all the gay badges, all it is, is a manual box with a shift pump, actuators, a brain and loadsa pipes filled with fluid. If you want a real sequential, go and buy an M5 or M6, or even an Audi with a double clutch 'box. The difference is shocking. Yes, they have an Auto mode, but that is absolute turd!

As said to you, drive them both, HARD and fast and see what you like. But dont get caught up in the hype that this is the best thing since fuel injection!

[Morat]

flappy paddles....

[djk]

It stands for "sequential Manual Gearbox" but even thats a lie. The only thing sequential about it, is the fact you can just press a button to change gear.

Err... sequential merely means that the gears are shifted 'in sequence', ie you can only change from one gear to it's immediate neighbours, up or down. So BMW's description of SMG is totally accurate. Doesn't mean it's any good though!

Otherwise I wholeheartedly agree with everything you've said.

[murran]

cogs and clutches everytime for me!!! unless i loose a leg at sometime in my life.
ive driven v6 audi tt's in dsg form and audi rs4s and rs6s. only on the road tho. i just dont like them, feels wrong wrong wrong.

[kdevitt]

Haha - you'd never guess Don-king is driving an SMG car.

Anyway - theres a good document here - originally from bm3w.co.uk - showing all the revisions, its quite handy

http://www.bmw-driver.net/forum/showpos ... stcount=30

[stuartgallafant]

It stands for "sequential Manual Gearbox" but even thats a lie. The only thing sequential about it, is the fact you can just press a button to change gear.

Err... sequential merely means that the gears are shifted 'in sequence', ie you can only change from one gear to it's immediate neighbours, up or down. So BMW's description of SMG is totally accurate. Doesn't mean it's any good though!

Otherwise I wholeheartedly agree with everything you've said.

Fair enough! The M5/6 is a proper unit though! You should see them all stripped down, gears are nowhere at all in sequence for the human hand! Good job its got its own brain...

O/T, do you have enough E30's?! I can barely cope with my one!!

[djk]

It stands for "sequential Manual Gearbox" but even thats a lie. The only thing sequential about it, is the fact you can just press a button to change gear.

Err... sequential merely means that the gears are shifted 'in sequence', ie you can only change from one gear to it's immediate neighbours, up or down. So BMW's description of SMG is totally accurate. Doesn't mean it's any good though!

Otherwise I wholeheartedly agree with everything you've said.

Fair enough! The M5/6 is a proper unit though! You should see them all stripped down, gears are nowhere at all in sequence for the human hand! Good job its got its own brain...

O/T, do you have enough E30's?! I can barely cope with my one!!

Down to two now, probably down to one shortly - few little jobs to prepare the touring for sale, then I'll be back down to just the brown 4dr 320i. Don't ask me why I like it so much, I just do!

[stuartgallafant]

Im not judging you mate!!

[IainW]

I own an e46 m3 facelift.

I opted for a manual for a few reasons:

I didn’t want to find myself on the hard shoulder with an illuminated cog on my dash.
I wanted to shift myself and had no interest in a computer doing it for me.
Any issues with a manual can be resolved in comparison with the smg system relatively easily.
better re-sale value.

To suggest that an SMG is worth more is fantasy, they are sometimes more expensive as its easier to find a high spec smg car than it is a manual (comes down to the geek factor imo) but spec for spec the manuals will cost you slightly more, this is probably down to buyers preferring a manual rather than outright concerns over the smg boxes reliability.

SMGII is far far more reliable than SMGI, the real issue in my eyes is not that the box is inherently unreliable (although it is undoubtedly weaker than the full manual) but that main dealers have huge difficulty fixing them, this seems to lead to lots or part swapping resulting in big bills.

Early cars had some dodgy rod bearings, these continued to float about until early 03, your dealer should be able to tell you if it requires a recall/service item on this point.

Release bearings seem to rattle at low miles.

Shims will probably be out, as they don't seem to get done properly. Its much easier to diy them on the s54 than the old s50 units. the special tools run to about £80 for the lot + shims @ about £2 each and your done.

Widescreen nav came in about 02 I think and is a better unit than the older postage stamp screen unit.

TV, rapidly becoming useless unless its fitted with a digital box.

Brakes are shit unless you drive like a poof.

[pacerpete]

The 'popularity' of the 'fagtronic' SMG box on E46 M3s tells you lots about the type of people that aspire to owning these cars. It's a shame, the E46 M3 (manual coupe*) is a great car for not a lot of money, providing you don't mind the " my other car is a councilled up range rover sport and I'm 'ard " stigma



* E46 SMG cabs are very council and virtually exclusively driven by sad wanna be dealer/spiv types

[stuartgallafant]

The 'popularity' of the 'fagtronic' SMG box on E46 M3s tells you lots about the type of people that aspire to owning these cars. It's a shame, the E46 M3 (manual coupe*) is a great car for not a lot of money, providing you don't mind the " my other car is a councilled up range rover sport and I'm 'ard " stigma



* E46 SMG cabs are very council and virtually exclusively driven by sad wanna be dealer/spiv types

[Rich_W]

I'd choose SMG personally. I know it's a bit jerky at low speeds. But as I a) can Left foot brake competently and b) would br on track at various times. It's the only option for me. I;m also a big fan of DSG (though not the palaver to change the oil!)

Of course, if you want to do drifting or burn outs regular manual is for you. Those of us who are not a teenager will let you get on with it....

[Blitz]

Manual are for real men.

[Rich_W]

The fastest race cars in the world are paddle shift.

Manuals are for those that don't care about lap times. And as Frank Williams (allegedly) says "You are a racer, or you are nothing"

[Colonel Sanders]

i have a manual, and much prefer it to the smg shite.
very good car if looked after, but cost a shite load to mantain properly, sent mine in for new brakes a service and a couple of other bits and picked up a bill just short of 3k...

[djk]

The fastest race cars in the world are paddle shift.

Manuals are for those that don't care about lap times. And as Frank Williams (allegedly) says "You are a racer, or you are nothing"

Errr... who's setting lap times? If you want to go seriously quick round a track, you won't be in an M3, or any BMW, or any car that has ever been designed to go on a public road. If you want to go quick on a track, get yourself 7 grand's worth of formula ford, with a frankly horrid to use 4-speed straght-cut dogbox with a 6-foot linkage. No M3 will ever get near you, unless you are a proper numpty.

Regarding DSG, they're alright, but nothing like as involving as a manual. In my opinion, they are just like a conventional torque converter auto but with fewer drawbacks - they don't sap fuel or performance and in all other respects behave much the same. You can change gears yourself, but there's nothing particularly pleasurable about the experience - you might as well be playing playstation. SMG is, seemingly, neither one thing nor the other - crap at being an auto, crap at being a manual and unreliable and expensive to fix to boot.

And what's so special about being able to use your left foot to brake? There are very few circumstances in which this practice is in any way advantageous, and you'd need to be going bloody quickly already for it to be worth learning - if there's still time to be made up elsewhere in your track driving, you need to do that first. Can I use your dictaphone?

[e30_singh]

As most have said above avoid fanny paddles. They have an array of problems, BMW released SMG2 but its not really worth the risk. Better off buying a manual.

[Simon]

* E46 SMG cabs are very council and virtually exclusively driven by sad wanna be dealer/spiv types

Funny you should say that, we have two SMG cabs in our compound awaiting auction for proceeds of crime!

[pacerpete]

The fastest race cars in the world are paddle shift.

Manuals are for those that don't care about lap times. And as Frank Williams (allegedly) says "You are a racer, or you are nothing"

Manuals are for those that use their cars regularly, on the road and prefer the superior control that a manual box gives.
The simplicity and inate reliability are added bonuses.

SMG is for town driving 'dealers' and wannabee sparco c ock types !

[djk]

The fastest race cars in the world are paddle shift.

Manuals are for those that don't care about lap times. And as Frank Williams (allegedly) says "You are a racer, or you are nothing"

Manuals are for those that use their cars regularly, on the road and prefer the superior control that a manual box gives.
The simplicity and inate reliability are added bonuses.

SMG is for town driving 'dealers' and wannabee sparco c ock types !

Pacerpete tells it like it is, as ever.

[Blitz]

SMG for lazy people.

[Rich_W]

and prefer the superior control that a manual box gives.

Define the control aspect please. Once you;re in gear, you're in gear. If you're talking about heel n toe "blips" I do them in manuals of course. But that's all the control I think you need. (SMG2 does the pre blip for you in any case)

I suppose a softer shift is the only advantage of a manual.

[stuartgallafant]

anything that 'automates' something for you removes your control over it, regardless of how you'd like to believe the SMG boxes work.

Pacerpete's right in saying you have more control with a manual box, because you control the throttle, clutch and gears to allow the car to do what you want it to. SMG takes away your clutch control and to a point your throttle because it does everything for you

Did you know the Americans dont have SMG? They hate it! Why... Less control

[Andyboy]

SMG reminds me of a sad computer game. Alpina are just as bad - the B3 E46 is ruined with a Sadtronic box, only that is based on an actual 5HP automatic.
To me, changing gear is an important part of driving. Not the heel and toe crap, but the act of depressing the clutch and changing gear. If you want the car to do the work for you, look to what Mercedes have in the AMG stuff - a proper automatic box that will change gear before an SMG driver even thinks about it.

[Blitz]

SMG reminds me of a sad computer game. Alpina are just as bad - the B3 E46 is ruined with a Sadtronic box, only that is based on an actual 5HP automatic.
To me, changing gear is an important part of driving. Not the heel and toe crap, but the act of depressing the clutch and changing gear. If you want the car to do the work for you, look to what Mercedes have in the AMG stuff - a proper automatic box that will change gear before an SMG driver even thinks about it.

They made E46 B3's with manual but only in LHD. But the Alpina's gearbox is a proper automatic.

[Blitz]

The fastest race cars in the world are paddle shift.

Manuals are for those that don't care about lap times. And as Frank Williams (allegedly) says "You are a racer, or you are nothing"

Manuals are for those that use their cars regularly, on the road and prefer the superior control that a manual box gives.
The simplicity and inate reliability are added bonuses.

SMG is for town driving 'dealers' and wannabee sparco c ock types !

There was a SMG M3 cabby parked next my car and the person who got in it looked like a cock.

[Rich_W]

To me, changing gear is an important part of driving. Not the heel and toe crap, but the act of depressing the clutch and changing gear.

erm Heel and toe is the sign of ultimate changing gear. If you can;t do it. you are quite frankly an amateur.

As for SMG removing control of the gears and throttle? Yes it changes gear in 0.X seconds WHEN you tell it to. Throttle still has foot on it, so not sure why the car would change throttle at all (bar the pre blip on downshifts)