BMW 325I MOTORSPORT VS VW MK4 1.8T

[rado-steve]

Ratch (on_a_roll )Has been banned probably over 10 times steve

he does make great reading though

Lol Yep, Trolling at it's best

[On_a_Roll]

Ratch (on_a_roll )Has been banned probably over 10 times steve

he does make great reading though

Lol Yep, Trolling at it's best

Err, t's not trolling when I make valid points in context of this thread noobs - do you people even know what you're doing?

I live on planet Earth where everyone knows VAG cars are inferior when it comes to handling and driver appeal. There is too much compromise across VAG chassis' for an A3/A4/Passat/Golf/Ibiza/Bentley bla bla bla to be singleminded and focused at anything - BMW doesn't have that weight around the neck to deal with - plus they are FWD.

Inferior to what???? Another FWD car or a RWD car that you can't compare with they handle in a totally different way

Doh! This thread is exactly about comparing the two. The Golf is inferior to the car it's being compared to in this thread!

t;On_a_Roll"]
Saying the E30 isn't a 944 or 968 is just plain dumb - how is that even relevant.

Because you're banging on like BMW's being the best RWD cars in the whole of creation..........drive a 968CS and you'll soon change your mind

READ what I've written (and learn) stop making stuff up for the sake of your (non) argument - it's better than any GOLF and most FWD cars - I didn't mention other RWD cars as they are not part of this discussion. I've driven far better FWD and RWD cars than the E30 and The 968CS, including Porsches but I didn't mention them as this thread is not about that - again, READ and LEARN.

This isn't some 'Dubbers like us so we like them' that just gay talk. This is straight fact and VAG make unacceptable compromises, especially in ride and handling. Engines sound horrible too.

No thats not what I said....I wasn't suggesting a mass bumming session to arse lick each other, I was saying that most dubbers have a healthy respect for BM's especially the older ones, pity it doesn't seem to migrate across to BMW forums! I own both a Dub and a Beemer, they are both awesome at different things, my Beemer is a good daily hack that polishes up nice, whilst my rado is just that little bit naughty and awesomely quick plus it's got that exclusivity about it that an E30 can nver have!

And for the Engines sounding crap.....PMSL 3 letters...VR6

The VR6 was in about 3 cars of 3 billion lol!

VAG cars suck sweaty crack. MK4's especially and the MK5 is nothing special at all. They are cookie-cutter clones of each other with wooden rides, awful gearshifts, trim that falls apart and awful ride with whole front ends that self-destruct. If you like cars and value having a sliver of individuality, then you cannot be seen in or near any VAG product. This does not apply to you as I suspect being a 'Dubber Sheep' is all important.

Clearly, it's you who knows nothing abut cars.

[On_a_Roll]

Guys this is GREAT reading, really cheers me up . One point i definately agree on is the dubbers liking E30's thing.
DC09 proved that!

More people should be open minded like me and steve and the darlo bunch! if all manufacturers made cars for the same purpose/quality/usage etc. etc. the world would be shit!
I agree with steve they are both good - albeit at different things and nobody would enjoy
driving if all cars were the same!!

World peace

out

Cheer leading is worse than trolling - behave.

[fuzzy]

things like "if we all liked the same stuff the world would be a boring place etc etc" is one of the shittest fence sitting statements to make.
its about knowing what you like for yourself and giving your honest opinion rather than worrying about causing offence.

[On_a_Roll]

Ooo GATS me!

[stevemed]

ha ha!

[On_a_Roll]

http://www.cars-that-suck.com/stories.html

[bss325i]

...thats why VW built the VR6, to compete with BM's big 6pots!!!

Which is crap!

Mmm do not feed the troll

But while your on...do explain???

About the only good thing is the engine but even that needs 300cc to make essentialy the same power a M20B25, not good for an engine which is 10 years newer in design!

Not only that, the engine (not exactly lightweight!) is mounted so far forward you can almost stand between it and the bulkhead!

This would go so way to explain the horrible, bordering on dangerous handling of the thing!

I have driven several, in fact an ex collegue is a serious VR6 deviant and has a tidy one. We have had it many at time and its not as quick as my sport.

Oh the debates/banter/p!ss taking that has gone on between us!

The rest of the car is a joke as highlighted by B7.

We have a P reg Vento 1.8 auto as a pool car at work and it has just had holes on the strut towers that i could fit my fist though, plated up for the mot.

Its only done 40000 miles!

[rado-steve]

http://www.cars-that-suck.com/stories.html

and: http://site.bmwsucks.com/index.php?user ... ea80185e7e

[rado-steve]

Ratch (on_a_roll )Has been banned probably over 10 times steve

he does make great reading though

Lol Yep, Trolling at it's best

Err, t's not trolling when I make valid points in context of this thread noobs - do you people even know what you're doing?

I live on planet Earth where everyone knows VAG cars are inferior when it comes to handling and driver appeal. There is too much compromise across VAG chassis' for an A3/A4/Passat/Golf/Ibiza/Bentley bla bla bla to be singleminded and focused at anything - BMW doesn't have that weight around the neck to deal with - plus they are FWD.

Inferior to what???? Another FWD car or a RWD car that you can't compare with they handle in a totally different way

Doh! This thread is exactly about comparing the two. The Golf is inferior to the car it's being compared to in this thread!

t;On_a_Roll"]
Saying the E30 isn't a 944 or 968 is just plain dumb - how is that even relevant.

Because you're banging on like BMW's being the best RWD cars in the whole of creation..........drive a 968CS and you'll soon change your mind

READ what I've written (and learn) stop making stuff up for the sake of your (non) argument - it's better than any GOLF and most FWD cars - I didn't mention other RWD cars as they are not part of this discussion. I've driven far better FWD and RWD cars than the E30 and The 968CS, including Porsches but I didn't mention them as this thread is not about that - again, READ and LEARN.

When did a 968CS suddenly stop being a porsche??? and since it's long established that the 968CS is the Best handling Front Engined RWD car you can get I'd love to know what you've driven thats better??? And since I'm reading and (learning) (Oh sorry oh great one let me bow down at your fountain of great knowledge) It's YOU thats been involving other cars such as Bentley in your so called (non) arguments, the point I think you'll find I was trying to put across, is that you seemingly think you can compare a Mk4 Golf to a E30 325i. You Can't! Different era's, and different layouts, the E30 is not better than a Golf, it's just different and are designed to do different things! A FWD car will always be a handling compromise always has alway will that I will agree on!

This isn't some 'Dubbers like us so we like them' that just gay talk. This is straight fact and VAG make unacceptable compromises, especially in ride and handling. Engines sound horrible too.

No thats not what I said....I wasn't suggesting a mass bumming session to arse lick each other, I was saying that most dubbers have a healthy respect for BM's especially the older ones, pity it doesn't seem to migrate across to BMW forums! I own both a Dub and a Beemer, they are both awesome at different things, my Beemer is a good daily hack that polishes up nice, whilst my rado is just that little bit naughty and awesomely quick plus it's got that exclusivity about it that an E30 can nver have!

And for the Engines sounding crap.....PMSL 3 letters...VR6

The VR6 was in about 3 cars of 3 billion lol!

VAG cars suck sweaty crack. MK4's especially and the MK5 is nothing special at all. They are cookie-cutter clones of each other with wooden rides, awful gearshifts, trim that falls apart and awful ride with whole front ends that self-destruct. If you like cars and value having a sliver of individuality, then you cannot be seen in or near any VAG product. This does not apply to you as I suspect being a 'Dubber Sheep' is all important.

Clearly, it's you who knows nothing abut cars.

Oh My! All you are doing is demonstrating what a complete buffoon you are! Who clearly knows nothing about cars !

Cookie Cutter??? So they are all round and made of stainless steel??? Trim that falls apart?? My Rado is 20years old and it has less rattles and squeaks than my boss's e46 320d and thats only 4 years old!!! Front Ends that fall apart?? Because thats a really well documented VW fault, since they platform share I'm sure it must be well documented with other Skoda, Audi and Seat owners too.......No don't think so! Awful Gearshifts, so thats why every E30 owner swaps the shifter over for Z3 ones because BMW got it so right from the factory, The 02J shifter in my rado is very sweet and snickety, My dads new pissrat has one of the sweetest shifting actions of any car I've driven! And individuality....lol because thats someting that seems to be lacking with BMW's! Since they've sold more 3 series than ford have mondeos.

If BMW are soooooooo good at making cars how come they can't make rear arches that don't rust, Differentials that don't need oil changes, control arms that aren't made from cheese, dashboards that don't crack, an engine that doesn't need it's valve clearances checking(i'm sorry I thought BMW used advanced technology not 1900's technology), fuel tanks that don't expire every few years and fuel necks that seem to rust even before they are fitted to a car...would you like me to go on???

The VR6 was fitted in lots of cars, that probably demonstrates how succesful and engine it was and still is TBF as it's still being used abeilt now with 24V and only in 2.8 and 3.2 guise!

The VAG range of cars includes Lambo and Bentley so if they suck "Sweaty Crack" I'd hate to think what you think doesn't.....Oh my, might it be BMW...of course they don't make howlers of cars do they.......Ummmmm 3 series Compact or the X3 Per Chance in fact the e36 as a car is probably BMW's Mk3 golf!!

Actually they're whole range of cars at the mo have been shockinly shit, too expensive, too common (more 3 series sold than ford mondeos, already said that once though) and worst of all they are all hideously ugly having been styled by a blind man!

I'm not saying VW's don't have faults and I don't think the sun shines out of Ferdinand Piech's butt hole! Yes they have made a few howlers, the MK3 Golf springs to mind, but Volkswagens probably have the biggest following of any car maker anywhere else in the world and that is a fact! And BMW no matter how hard it tries will never ever come close I'm afraid.

I assume that since you have an intense hatred of VW we can rule out most of the other cars in the VAG umbrella such as Skoda, Seat, Audi etc I am no "dubber sheep" Yes I love my Veedubs, but I like all retro cars! The E30 is one of the prettiest BMW and i have a serious thing for an E28 5 series but you need to take off you BMW tinted specs, find your indicator stalk and seriously take your head out of your arse!

[rado-steve]

Which is crap!

Mmm do not feed the troll

But while your on...do explain???

About the only good thing is the engine but even that needs 300cc to make essentialy the same power a M20B25, not good for an engine which is 10 years newer in design!

Not only that, the engine (not exactly lightweight!) is mounted so far forward you can almost stand between it and the bulkhead!

This would go so way to explain the horrible, bordering on dangerous handling of the thing!

I have driven several, in fact an ex collegue is a serious VR6 deviant and has a tidy one. We have had it many at time and its not as quick as my sport.

Oh the debates/banter/p!ss taking that has gone on between us!

The rest of the car is a joke as highlighted by B7.

We have a P reg Vento 1.8 auto as a pool car at work and it has just had holes on the strut towers that i could fit my fist though, plated up for the mot.

Its only done 40000 miles!

Well I was meaning the Engine! VW's VR lump is probably one of their most succesful engines that and the evergreen 1.8T! The Mk3 Golf is regarded as a bit of a lemon standard but that has been well documented! Sort the suspension and it's a very capable car! and TBF it uses it's 300cc advantage to make roughly 20bhp more than the 171 the beemer has! VW being extremely conservative with their quoted power figure! Every one I've seen RR'd puts out at least 190bhp, fit one a bit more, the later 24V have 208bhp!

I'm not suprised you managed to beat your mate in his VR! Your e30 weighs about 200kg less and since I'm guessing it's not standard and probably pushes close to or more than 200bhp the BMW wins hands down! think you may find a better match against a corrado VR! Not really the same league though...Put your mates VR up against an e36 328 and the Beemer would be toast! Or have a play with a Mk2 Golf VR6 and then see where your smile is

There is a nice rusty p-reg e36 coupe that lives on my estate, rusty back arches and bubbles all over the sunroof! BMW are just as capable of making rust buckets and friday afternoon cars as VW are!

[murran]

...thats why VW built the VR6, to compete with BM's big 6pots!!!

Which is crap!

the vr6 is a good engine. was originally designed by mecedes!
in 1975 or summurt. they never used it but put a 10 year patent on the design. vw bought the design when the patent ran out.

[rado-steve]

...thats why VW built the VR6, to compete with BM's big 6pots!!!

Which is crap!

the vr6 is a good engine. was originally designed by mecedes!
in 1975 or summurt. they never used it but put a 10 year patent on the design. vw bought the design when the patent ran out.

Nothing to do with mercedes IIRC, are you sure you haven't just made that up??? Love to see some back up??

[On_a_Roll]

you need to take off you BMW tinted specs, find your indicator stalk and seriously take your head out of your arse!

It's clear to me now that you are a deluded VAG deviant. Wading through your post to find anything that made sense was a pain but it'll be worth it to wake you up to reality.

Everything you are saying is contrary to almost everyone elses' opinion on this thread and the common knowledge across the motoring press. VAG products suck. Their front ends are wooden and clunky and I have just had a Sharan that had the same fault that Barry described - they chew through their axles/bushes/linkages/joints and suspension like nothing I've ever seen and VERY early.

Your Porsche comment is irrelevant - look at the title of this thread 325i MotorSport V MK4 Golf GTI. How you can say it's stupid comparing cars from different eras on a thread that has asked that exact question is beyond stupid - it;s kind of gay.

The E36 is a shit car is it? You've really shown yourself up now. Show me a better all-rounder than a 328i Coupe for the money or age.

Blinkers - I;m not the one trying to tell everyone the MK3 was a great Golf lol!

BMW may make some crap looking cars but no actual shitters.

VAG loses car for car at every turn to BMW. VW isn't in the same bracket as BMW so here:

RS4 V M3?
RS6 V M5?
RS5 V M6?
A4 V 3-Series?
A6 V 5-Series?
Q7 V X5?

No BMW fanboy noise here, anyone who knows anything can tell.

[murran]

i cant back it up, just what i heard ages ago.
where did the narrow angle v6 transverse designs come from them? vw have been redesigning the same basic 4 pot laid back engine in one type or another since the end of the air cooled flat 4. the vr6 made an appearance as a v5 in the passat too. diddnt last long tho.
no way vw designed the vr lump! no other vag lump has had a chain driven cam... from the gear box end! before or since!

[murran]

q7s are shite. from what ive seen they have an un-official 6000 mile service shedual.... front tyres and front pads!!! nearly £700!

[rado-steve]

you need to take off you BMW tinted specs, find your indicator stalk and seriously take your head out of your arse!

It's clear to me now that you are a deluded VAG deviant. Wading through your post to find anything that made sense was a pain but it'll be worth it to wake you up to reality.

No I'm not as you clearly cannot read......I love all retro cars, yes I've had mainly VW's but I also have a 325i and several audi's, plus the odd MK2 fiesta I don't need waking up to reality mate although somebody should be putting some smelling salts under your nose!

Nicely not came back at me about my BMW fault list though have you...or is that 'cos it's true.....

Everything you are saying is contrary to almost everyone elses' opinion on this thread and the common knowledge across the motoring press. VAG products suck. Their front ends are wooden and clunky and I have just had a Sharan that had the same fault that Barry described - they chew through their axles/bushes/linkages/joints and suspension like nothing I've ever seen and VERY early.

So every press article ever written shows that VAG products suck....Mmm Ok lets see some proof then??? Is that why Skoda gets 2 cars in the top 10 in the Auto Express customer survey, Also I'd love to see you argue that a lambo Gallardo or murcielago sucks.....or a Bentley Arnage T ( yes and before you mention it I know BMW owns Rolls Royce) for that matter! Oh I'll mention it anyway but Audi has this certain car called an R8, it's a bit special I think you may need to look that one up??

Also can you tell me the last time BMW won at Le Mans???? And saying Mclaren dunt count as it only used the bloody engine! VAG have won with Bentley and with Audi!

And MK5 golfs Handle that badly I've heard that Top Gear didn't vote it, it's car of the year because they'd given it to a 3 series.......Oh No I made that up..Sorry!

Your Porsche comment is irrelevant - look at the title of this thread 325i MotorSport V MK4 Golf GTI. How you can say it's stupid comparing cars from different eras on a thread that has asked that exact question is beyond stupid - it;s kind of gay.

The E36 is a shit car is it? You've really shown yourself up now. Show me a better all-rounder than a 328i Coupe for the money or age.

How have I shhown myself up??? E36's are gash every press report I've read about them says they suck, it's common knowledge across the whole motoring press....Ha Ha!

Better coupe than a 328i Ummm thats pretty easy...Corrado VR6, Prettier and more exclusive! Honda Prelude again prettier, Fiat Coupe a bit ugly but by christ its fast, Alfa Romeo GTV, It's an Alfa.....Do you want me to go???

Blinkers - I;m not the one trying to tell everyone the MK3 was a great Golf lol!

I'm not in fact if you actually bother to read (and Learn)what I've written you'll find I've said it's not VW's best golf!

BMW may make some crap looking cars but no actual shitters.

VAG loses car for car at every turn to BMW. VW isn't in the same bracket as BMW so here:

RS4 V M3?
RS6 V M5?
RS5 V M6?
A4 V 3-Series?
A6 V 5-Series?
Q7 V X5?

No BMW fanboy noise here, anyone who knows anything can tell.

No BMW fanboy..please Have a word with youself! So the X3 is a really good car is it?????? Go on then argue me that one!

As for you list:

RS4 v M3......At the time of launch RS4 had 90bhp on the M3, Handled better, looked better and was cheaper! The new M3 had to have a V8 to compete with the outgoing RS4 and TBF I'm sure the new RS4 will be even better than the last and ergo be better than the current M3!

RS6 v M5.......M5 has 400bhp but you need to switch it to 500bhp, whats the point in that??? RS6 has 576bhp available all the time, both have a V10 engine! Not sure what your point is there??

RS5 v M6....Well the RS5 doesn't officially exist yet! But judging on looks alone the RS5 wins hands down as the M6 is just a turd TBF and an ugly one at that! Especially the hilarious Convertiable! Performance wise it's supposed to have a 450bhp V8 and will be a damn sight lighter than the tank like M6! So it'll probably be quicker! But we'll just have to see when launch date happens

A4 v 3 Series........Much of a muchness TBF, they are both extremely capable executive saloons, both have powerful petrol engined variants and equally powerful TDi lumps! BMW does have an awesome engine in its 3.0 and 3.5TDI but it suffers from chronic ugliness and I couldn't drive something that hideoes and common TBF!

A6 v 5 Series.....Again extremely Capable Posher executive saloons. I'll hand it to BMW with this one though as the 5 series in all its guises..from E28 upwards are awesome cars whereas the A6 is a bit of a non entity really!

Q7 or Touraeg v X5....Ha Ha! X5 has about as much off road ability as a formula 1 car whereas the Q7 and especially the Toureag are excellent Off roaders, Plus they have that awesome powerhouse of the V10 TDi engine.......BMW doesn't have anything close that'll match that!

You missed the 1 series out???? Any reason or is it because thats also butt ugly and BMW only built it because they were loosing sales to other manufacturers in the meduim sized hatch market?? The only semi good one is the 130i and thats over £30K!!!!! Suprisingly BMW haven't sold very many!!!!

One of the best cars BMW made and I'm suprised nobody has mentioned it yet is the Mcoupe! Now thats credit where credits due!

Plus if BMW were that great How Come Bond is back in an Aston

[rado-steve]

i cant back it up, just what i heard ages ago.
where did the narrow angle v6 transverse designs come from them? vw have been redesigning the same basic 4 pot laid back engine in one type or another since the end of the air cooled flat 4. the vr6 made an appearance as a v5 in the passat too. diddnt last long tho.
no way vw designed the vr lump! no other vag lump has had a chain driven cam... from the gear box end! before or since!

I'm sure I heard it they had the idea for the narrow vee design from an old lancia engine!

The VR was designed to give an alternative to the straight six of BMW! VW had to find a way of shoehorning 6 cylinders tranversely and keep it front wheel drive! the VR is basically a squashed straight 6 with a narrow 15deg V!

info here although it dunt say where the design originated:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VR6_engine

[Benho]

put it this way how the hell can you gays knock the veedubs?!??! they are fwd for starters and the mk4 was a bigger mistake than cheating on your ex-girlfriend... this is hysterical.

[B7]

this is hysterical.

Correction. This is boring. Everytime this argument comes up it's the same old b0ll0cks.

You can't compare any VW with any BMW full stop! FWD / RWD. Sportshatch vs. RWD (sporting) Saloon. Two completely different animals.

Time to lock it mods I feel.

[H35-IAN]

to me a e30 doesnt compare in anyway to a golf mk4 , the mk4s are cack unless u want a boring town car ..................my own opinion but its well proven they were not the best golf , stick to the e30 if u want all round fun , and something to play about with the golfs FWD also cant compare.....ian

[capri_rob]

How have I shhown myself up??? E36's are gash every press report I've read about them says they suck, it's common knowledge across the whole motoring press....Ha Ha!

Better coupe than a 328i Ummm thats pretty easy...Corrado VR6, Prettier and more exclusive! Honda Prelude again prettier, Fiat Coupe a bit ugly but by christ its fast, Alfa Romeo GTV, It's an Alfa.....Do you want me to go???

You're kidding right ? Have you driven a good 328i Coupe ?
Corrado VR6 - ok find one that hasn't been caned to within an inch of its life, Honda Prelude - yawn, Fiat Coupe - don't make me laugh, Alfa GTV - pretty but only buy if you like spending lots of time waiting for the RAC.

I don't know what press report you've been reading but aside from a few glitches with trim quality the E36 had when new most of the press reports I've seen were extremely complimentary - in fact Brooklands Books have a whole book full !

I quite like VAG stuff ( my first car was a Mk1 Golf ) but the build quality isn't a patch on BMW !
The most unreliable POS i have ever owned by a country mile was my Mk2 Golf GTi - I sold the best E30 I've ever had to buy it so had a direct reference point at the time. It was hateful and I have never had anything like any of the issues I had with the golf in ANY of the BMW's I've had ( of which there's been quite a few )

my last daily was a diesel A4 - which was a dull but capable all rounder - great as it would do 50mpg. I sold it in favour of an E36 Touring which doesn't have the Audi's fuel economy but is a much nicer car in every other respect.

[On_a_Roll]

This IS boring - these VAG boys (and they are BOYS because VW is what you get your kid for his first car lol!)are just talking nonsense now...

[Nay]

rado-steve. I'm more on Ratch's side here, although not quite as far as him. Every VAG car I've had the "pleasure" of driving has been dismal. Reasonable cars, but shite engines and tacky looks and feel.

All VW's look horrible. All audi's (apart from a few newer ones... and the R8) look dull and boring. Granted newer BMW's aren't at their prime, but are still much prettier cars.

You seem to be referencing power in bhp to a large chunk of your argument. TBH, if you could afford a new M3/4/5 or RS4/5/6 or whatever... I'm sure that saying one has 500bhp and one has 576bhp is not really the deciding factor.

All bmw's have a sense of handling and a feel to them that outclasses all the competitors cars from the equivilant era. Be them FWD or RWD.

[nm1]

golf= gay wheel drive [excludes r32] enough said

[pacerpete]

Haterz, don't be dissin da bruvs dub , innit !

[On_a_Roll]

Pacer, you must have something more enlightening than that to add to this 'debate'.

[oakey]

My friends mk4 V5 turd has just broken on him and he had to fork out on a new clutch and flywheel setup for the pricely sum of £800 At 70K miles
Another friend has a 'project zwo' mk4 1.8T which is fettled with and it's not very fast and definitely not exciting at all.

[pacerpete]

Pacer, you must have something more enlightening than that to add to this 'debate'.

OK, dubbers are deluded scum and them and their bruvved up cloned scrap need exterminating.

How's that Ratch ?

[B7]

Pacer, you must have something more enlightening than that to add to this 'debate'.

OK, dubbers are deluded scum and them and their bruvved up cloned scrap need exterminating.

How's that Ratch ?

From a man that owns a f*cking SKODA!!!!!!!!

[fuzzy]

theres nothing special or exciting about run of the mill models of modern bmw either. there no better or worse than vw/skoda etc etc

[On_a_Roll]

Fuzzy - you gave it the large about say what you feel then you come on with this whole Mandela mollocks.

We are NOT all the same.

Pacer, you must have something more enlightening than that to add to this 'debate'.

OK, dubbers are deluded scum and them and their bruvved up cloned scrap need exterminating.

How's that Ratch ?

The word 'Dubbers' actually makes me physically ill. It's the everyman car - that;s what the brand MEANS.

You rock VW, you are a a transparent jelly.

[rado-steve]

Ha Ha the man falls silent!

[On_a_Roll]

WTF?

[On_a_Roll]

Bond is back in an Aston because VW's were too awesome.