M50 Developments - considering an M50? Read this.

[jmc330i]

Can the Pacet fans be wired for dual speed?

[ian332isport]

Can the Pacet fans be wired for dual speed?

Oh yeah, just the same as the standard E30 fan is done with a resistor.

I only chose to use the E30 fan, as it mounts directly to the front of the A/C condenser. If I kept the Pacet, it would have meant a lot of messing around trying to mount it.

Ian.

[buster]

Hello
Ian,
thanks very much for the charts,very helpfull starting the wiring tonight.
Got the pins ,sockets and tool from RS yesterday.

[buster]

Ian,
got most of the c101 connector done.Ouch though,bad back !! (no i told you so's !) .
got two questions though,at the end of the chart e36 x20 to e30 c101 changes,it says 3 (splice 6821) . what is that ?

secondly,the chart says use the small pins,but the small pins slip straight through the c101 connector but the medium and large pins click in place.have i done some thing wrong ?

[ian332isport]

Ian,
got most of the c101 connector done.Ouch though,bad back !! (no i told you so's !) .
got two questions though,at the end of the chart e36 x20 to e30 c101 changes,it says 3 (splice 6821) . what is that ?

secondly,the chart says use the small pins,but the small pins slip straight through the c101 connector but the medium and large pins click in place.have i done some thing wrong ?

Andy,

I can't for the life of me remember why I put the '3' there, but what you need to do, is find splice 6821 (actually 6820 on the S50 loom, but the number's not important), in the engine wiring box. This is fairly easy to find, as it's where all the red/white wires join together. Once you find that bundle of wires, you need to splice a wire into one of them, and run it out to the X20/C101 connector on pin 20.

This provides 12v from pin 87 of the main ECU relay to the E30 ABS system. The E30 engine loom already had this connection, but it's not present on the S50, so you need to tap into the appropriate wire (splice 6820).

Before you make the final connection, it would be worth checking for continuity between pin 87 of the main (white) relay, and the red/white wire you are connecting into, just to confirm you have the right wire.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by the 'small pins'. The pins themselves are all the same size (as far as the connector is concerned). The reference to small, medium & large was to the size of wire that the pins can take.

One other thing that I forgot to mention, but you may of already sussed, is the extra locking ring on the back of the C101 plastic housing. Once all the pins are inserted, you rotate the locking collar, and it will stop any pins from falling out (if their locking tabs broke). Obviously, you would need to turn it the other way to allow any pins to be removed or added at a later date.

Cheers,

Ian.

[buster]

thanks Ian,Giving it another go today.I think i may scrap the e36 wiring box anyway as the strut brace wont fit in place over it.I took it off last night,god is my back hurting by the way ! I seen the wires you mentioned so will do that now.
The pins small medium large ,the medium and large are ok,the ends the same but the crimp part different sizes,but the small ones the whole thing including the pin end is smaller so they just drop straight through the c101 connector.

[ian332isport]

The pins small medium large ,the medium and large are ok,the ends the same but the crimp part different sizes,but the small ones the whole thing including the pin end is smaller so they just drop straight through the c101 connector.

You must have somehow ordered the 'signal' pins, instead of the 'power' pins. The description is very similar, so easy to make a mistake (I hope it wasn't the numbers I provided )

Glad it's going okay though

Cheers,

Ian.

[buster]

hi ian,the numbers you gave i double checked myself and they were the power contact pins but they do look like the signal pins they have sent in the small size.Oh well,i'll order some more.
couple of questions ;

I located the splice,its got about 5 red wires with a white stripe on them,the thickest one goes through the loom and comes out at that white relay so do you think thats the correct splice ?

On my e36 x20 connector there is no wire in pin 9 Which should be oil temp sensor to cluster wire.But on the e36 x69 chart it lists pin 10 as oil temp switch.Is this the one i need to wire to pin 19 on the e30 c101 connector ?

Bit heavy going i know,
thanks

[ian332isport]

I located the splice,its got about 5 red wires with a white stripe on them,the thickest one goes through the loom and comes out at that white relay so do you think thats the correct splice ?

Yes, that does sound like the correct wire.

On my e36 x20 connector there is no wire in pin 9 Which should be oil temp sensor to cluster wire.But on the e36 x69 chart it lists pin 10 as oil temp switch.Is this the one i need to wire to pin 19 on the e30 c101 connector ?

Yes, you need to pull the brown/red wire from pin 10 of the X69 connector, and feed it through to pin 19 of the X20/C101. You won't have a wire in pin 19 of the E30 C101 either. This would only be present on an E30 M3, so needs to be added, and routed to the instrument cluster.

Cheers,

Ian.

[buster]

done and done,thanks Ian.I have the e30 m3 cluster and had it wired different before but i decided to run it through the c101 connector as you have on them charts.Only pins 12 and 16 are not used now in my c101 and there are 2 wires left on the x69 and 7 on the x20.
Will any of the remaining wires be needed for anything ?
Also i have fitted the 5 series oil level sensor,can i use the m3 oil level plug and wires to wire it up ?

[ian332isport]

done and done,thanks Ian.I have the e30 m3 cluster and had it wired different before but i decided to run it through the c101 connector as you have on them charts.Only pins 12 and 16 are not used now in my c101 and there are 2 wires left on the x69 and 7 on the x20.
Will any of the remaining wires be needed for anything ?
Also i have fitted the 5 series oil level sensor,can i use the m3 oil level plug and wires to wire it up ?

Andy,

C101 pins 12 & 16 should be left empty (although I have used them on mine for some of the Aircon wiring).

X69 pins 11 & 12 are not needed, and can be pulled back into the main wiring box and insulated. You can then loose the X69 completely.

You say pin 7 of the X20 is not connected to anything. This ultimately needs to be connected to the EWS module, or the engine will never start or run. What do you have in pin 3 of the C101 ?

You cannot use the M3 oil level sender wiring for the E34 oil level sensor. On the M3, it uses some weird thermal sensor for the oil level. This is all routed to the ECU, and the ECU then sends the oil level signal to the OBC/Dash. I left this connector in place, and just tied it back against the loom.

You need to run three new wires for the E34 oil level sender. Two of these go up to the C101 on pins 2 & 10 (static & dynamic), and the third wire is a simple GND that can be found inside the wiring box (follow the wire that connects to the earth point on the strut tower).

Cheers,

Ian.

[buster]

hi Ian,
i meant 7 wires on the x20 arent wired to anything,just left over.maybe use 2 of them or the 2 wires in the x69 to connect the level sensor to the c101 instead of pulling new wires through the loom and through to the c101.

[ian332isport]

hi Ian,
i meant 7 wires on the x20 arent wired to anything,just left over.maybe use 2 of them or the 2 wires in the x69 to connect the level sensor to the c101 instead of pulling new wires through the loom and through to the c101.

Ahh, that makes more sense

If you can let me know which pins from the X20 are not being used, I can confirm if they are okay to leave disconnected.

As for using some of the redundant wires for the oil level sender, that should be okay. I guess you could use the original M3 oil level wires if you disconnected them close to the ECU connector. This would hopefully give you enough length to reach from the sender to the C101/X20.

Cheers,

Ian.

[buster]

the un-used wires in e36 x20 connector are pins : 4 5 6 8 10 11 16.
the un-used wires in e36 x69 connector are pins : 11 12.

Thats all the remaining wires.Hopefully 2 of those can be used for the oil level sensor if i disconnect them from the other end if they are redundant.
thanks Ian

andy

[ian332isport]

the un-used wires in e36 x20 connector are pins : 4 5 6 8 10 11 16.
the un-used wires in e36 x69 connector are pins : 11 12.

Thats all the remaining wires.Hopefully 2 of those can be used for the oil level sensor if i disconnect them from the other end if they are redundant.
thanks Ian

andy

Hi Andy,

Yes, all those wires can be left disconnected (or possibly used for the oil level sender).

Pins 4,5 & 6 are all air con wires
Pin 8 would be the check engine light, but this is not used on the UK models.
Pin 10 is for the E36 reverse light switch
Pin 11 is an extra connection for the coolant temp sender
Pin 16 is for the Diagnostic connector and is not required.

Cheers,

Ian.

[Jhonno]

erm.. anyone tell me how long the pushrod on the e30 servo is?

picked myself up a porka 924 servo 2day (bout 9" dia) n i know they used one on Wils old m50 conversion... it was smaller than the on in a mk1 golf cabby

[jmc330i]

Just so we are talking the about same bit - Ive measure the pushrod that pushes against the master cylinder on my E30 servo, its 10cm (about 4") long.

My Mk1 Gti servo is 9" in diameter, the E30 servo is 11".

Its possible the Mk1 Golf Cabs had larger servos because of the extra weight.

[Sooty]

Sorry to butt in guys, but can someone clarify a couple of things for me please?

I've sourced my E34 M50 motor complete with loom & ancilliaries (coming in the next week or so hopefully) - no problem there.
I've got a g/box from an E36 328i - is there any major difference between this & the E36 325i box and will it fit?
I'd like to use the stock M20 flywheel if possible - I know about the possible clearance issues with this, but will the M20 starter motor just bolt straight up to the E36 box?
I'll be using a post 88' E30 325i rad with the plastic tank on the side - will I still need to use a separate header tank?

Anyone know for sure

[buster]

Ian,
i used the 2 wires from the x69 connector for the oil level sensor,all the c101 wires are in, crimped and soldered and connected,just need to wire in the EWS 11 stuff now but thats next on the list.I will have a good look at those charts first to see whats what.The engine bay wiring is done now appart from connecting the battery.The 3 ,12v wires coming out of the fuse box i am going to remove and connect the 1 e36 live out of the e36 engine loom to the fuse box.
Thanks very much Ian,couldn't have been done without you.


cheers
andy

[ian332isport]

I've got a g/box from an E36 328i - is there any major difference between this & the E36 325i box and will it fit?

The 325i and the 328i used the same box, so no problem at all.

I'd like to use the stock M20 flywheel if possible - I know about the possible clearance issues with this, but will the M20 starter motor just bolt straight up to the E36 box?

Sorry, no idea on this one

I'll be using a post 88' E30 325i rad with the plastic tank on the side - will I still need to use a separate header tank?

I have never seen an E30 325i with a plastic tank on the radiator. Early cars had it hanging above the exhaust manifold, and later cars had it on the passengers side inner wing. Wasn't it the 4 pot cars that had it on the radiator ?

To answer your question though. If you use a rad with the tank on the side, you should not need the separate one else where.

Cheers,

Ian.

[Jhonno]

Just so we are talking the about same bit - Ive measure the pushrod that pushes against the master cylinder on my E30 servo, its 10cm (about 4") long.

My Mk1 Gti servo is 9" in diameter, the E30 servo is 11".

Its possible the Mk1 Golf Cabs had larger servos because of the extra weight.

so 4" from the back of the servo toward the bulkhead if it were mounted

[jmc330i]

so 4" from the back of the servo toward the bulkhead if it were mounted

Do you mean where the brake linkage connects to the servo?

I measured the rod arrowed - the bit that pushes the master cylinder...


Let me know if that wasnt right and I will get the measurement you want.

[Jhonno]

erm is that the important length ie the one that needs adjusting on some servo's?

[jmc330i]

erm is that the important length ie the one that needs adjusting on some servo's?

If you mean for the M50/S50 conversions, then yes. This is the bit that needs the spacer to use the Mk2 Golf servos, otherwise the servo wont push the master cylinder enough.

Just realised youve got the 924 servo so Im not sure if you need the spacer the same, and I dont think Wil knew what they did on his conversion either.

Have you got a pic of the 924 servo, from the same angle as the pic I posted?

[Sooty]

Many thanks for the info Ian

Re the rad with the plastic tank, looking at pictures of M50 installations on some of the American sites, the majority seem to be using a rad with the filler cap on the L/H side of the rad (like the 318's).
I assumed that this was the legendary "post 88' 325i rad".

[buster]

sooty,
the rad with the tank on the side is a e36 325 one.

Ian,
got my prop today,they've done a good job.Although they have made it 506 mm instead of 512 but it should be ok as you know there is a bit of adjustment as its a 30 mm slot in the centre bearing.

[Sooty]

Aaaahhhhh - that's what they are.

Cheers for that Andy.

Now got to tell my mate that I've screwed up & can he get me an E36 one instead

[ian332isport]

Ian,
got my prop today,they've done a good job.Although they have made it 506 mm instead of 512 but it should be ok as you know there is a bit of adjustment as its a 30 mm slot in the centre bearing.

Andy,

Yes, you should be okay with 506mm.

What else is left to do ?

Ian.

[CaesarBob]

Re the rad with the plastic tank, looking at pictures of M50 installations on some of the American sites, the majority seem to be using a rad with the filler cap on the L/H side of the rad (like the 318's).
I assumed that this was the legendary "post 88' 325i rad".

Sooty my 318iS has a rad with the tank on the n/s and the filler cap on the n/s as well. No separate expansion tank.

Not sure whether the E36's had something similar or not.

[Jhonno]

Have you got a pic of the 924 servo, from the same angle as the pic I posted?

not atm but i can get one..

[buster]

Whats left to do.

Make a gearbox mount.

Wire up the EWS system.

Modifiy the exhaust manifold to go around the steering joint.

Find a 25mm audi master cylinder to complete the brakes,although no upgrades yet to the brakes,4 pots are planned.

Oil cooler needs locating to the front ,although for a test run should be ok on the bottom of the rad for now.

nearly there really,just cosmetic stuff also like making everything look nice and factory fitted,paint cam cover and inlet etc etc

[ian332isport]

Whats left to do.

Make a gearbox mount.

Wire up the EWS system.

Modifiy the exhaust manifold to go around the steering joint.

Find a 25mm audi master cylinder to complete the brakes,although no upgrades yet to the brakes,4 pots are planned.

Oil cooler needs locating to the front ,although for a test run should be ok on the bottom of the rad for now.

nearly there really,just cosmetic stuff also like making everything look nice and factory fitted,paint cam cover and inlet etc etc

Making good progress then

Any idea when it's likely to be ready for a test drive ?

Ian.

[buster]

Not sure yet ,Been on with it for 5 months now,and really havent been spending as much time as i could on it.
Couldnt have done it without you though Ian,id still be trying to get the engine in ! thanks for all the help.When its done,hopefully i can answer questions for others like you have, who want to do this conversion.I can join you in the 332 section on the zone
When its done we should get the cars together for a 332i sport feature,that would be good,both black sports
Drag race would be fun !

hopefully a test drive in a month or so.

Im going to crawl back under it now and get this prop on.

[buster]

whats the full oil capacity of my 3.2 engine ? just want to confirm that my dipstick is reading what it should.
cheers
andy

[ian332isport]

whats the full oil capacity of my 3.2 engine ? just want to confirm that my dipstick is reading what it should.
cheers
andy

I think mine takes 6 or 7 litres from memory. It certainly takes more than one 5 litre container.

I'll check when I get home, and see how much is left in the 2nd 5 litre container. I've not topped it up since the service, so this should be fairly accurate.

Cheers,

Ian.