A W.A.R CHIP & GEN III MAF -----------------

[--alpina--]

Hi dave, i havent fitted any of the gear yet, ive been to busy with other ongoing stuff, the war chip and genIII maf are still in its box and chucked in the garage somewhere.. and now its like if i can find it as ive stashed more stuff in their... i need to get some quality time to play with it, and it will be very soon so that i can show whats it about.... stay tuned.... very soon...

If you buy the maf and war chip, you wont get the maf chip that would normally come with it cos you have the war chip to do what the original chip would do if you see what i mean... you have to download the chip files from miller to cater for its application to adjust the parameters for the maf.... how ever if you buy just the maf alone you get the chip software to fit in the ecu.... and will only be for the 2.5 engine... people are sending in files to miller and there uploading it for us users of war chip to download, i recently downloaded a 2.8 stroker files which im planning to convert from AFM to MAF and change the fuel octane cos this file i think its from america this way at least you can run the 2.7 engine on as a starting platform to degrade the fueling for the 2.7 to run ........ so more people who has the war chip we all share the files and adjust it here and there then upload it for others "if you want" bit like Chip File Share Ware...... seems like cars are starting to get fun now

J

[Jon_Bmw]

Can you live re map with it?

If so will it data trace so you can see the load point you are working with if on a dyno?

[--alpina--]

I dont think you can live re-map, from what i understand its alter parameters and drive -- suck it and see -- stop car - alter parameters so on... cos as soon as your USB conection with laptop you cannot start the car from what i was told... which is a downfall when playing with 1.3 motronic!!! but i will however get the full technical on that side...


J

[cliffybabe]

i cant wait to know ur results with this WAR chip and MAF conversion

[Gunni]

Why are everybody getting their pants wet from MAF conversions.
They give little to nothing in terms of gains.

[--alpina--]

Why are everybody getting their pants wet from MAF conversions.
They give little to nothing in terms of gains.

Its a massive difference overall then AFM, its smooth drive and also think of it like breathing with your mouth open wide, then try breathing thru a straw, which is easier???

it does give gains, the more air is depressed in the manifold the more fuel to add you get more power, its like, why do people fit a Big Bore Throttle Body??? to let more air in right? so the only restriction is AFM.. when fitting a megasquirt same thing, the AFM is ditched... so fitting a MAF your retaining the 1.3 motronic and letting more air in ...same scenario...its a basic engine management update in league with the latest engine management technology, if parts of a newly designed engine management from bmw can be altered and fitted from other cars to our older cars, why not move forward.... and enjoy the change... its not major engine transplant its little changes here and there also the fuel economy is better due to our stupid fuel prices we have here in the UK..

J

[skipunda]

is a before and after rolling road graph possible?

+1

[--alpina--]

Miller should be able to supply that as they have rolling road on premesis which they do when the R&D are designing ... ill try and get some info and see what comes up...


J

[ShepsEvo3]

the miller site says $599 and theres import tax with shipping so its much more.. with throttlebodies, when you fit them with the chip you currently have you lose the 0-60 which is what i felt when i changed my standard manifold to throttlebodies on the m20 engine... this is when you need to advance the timing and chuck in more fuel at climbing rev range..... so when the war chip is inserted and programmed this is when the changes come alive!!! and the maf is a bonus for the throttleboddies specially...... and also for standard mannifolds from what ive heard e.t.c...


J

That sounds like it's going to be expensive?? Couldn't they use a cheaper Maf or a MAP sensor instead? No disrespect meant here as I aint like that, but at those prices M/S and known alternative's look attractive, unless I'm missing something here?

[Gunni]

I agree, firstly I haven´t seen any serious gains that are worth that money to go for a MAF.

MAP sensor would be so much easier to implement, hell even just swapping the AFM to TPS like the Maxx kit´s do would make more sense.

MAP sensors cost almost nothing
TPS sensors cost almost nothing
while MAF sensors outcost all the other ones.

In all seriousness, a cheap piggyback can do what is being proposed as the best idea for using the WAR system, using a MAF. Both do live ignition and fuel tuning, also if your using MAP it would be able to do Air temp correction as well.

This WAR stuff I feel is more of a solution when you absolutely need to be able to swap injectors change the revlimit, for instance when you have fitted a great big turbo and alot bigger injectors and possibly swapped the AFM for a MAP sensor.

The MAF - AFM relation is not like breathing through a straw, AFM´s don´t really hold you back that much, as I witnessed on Sal´s dyno when we put a AFM in front of a Alpha-N 2.7 it only lost 10hp and that was only above 5k and above 210hp. Below that there was the same exact HP.

[--alpina--]

The war chip is mainly a plug and play - and alter all you need compared to whats out there, its an easier solution for people who is always upgrading their engine, the chip supports 19lb injectors e.t.c... with the maf its an easier solution to an upgrade, some people would like add ons and away you go... its all down to what you want... and to be honest id rather keep the 1.3 and chuck these on, i could easily take off my thottlebody plenum and fit air filter socks and fit megasquirt and be done with but as i says it depends what you desire...


J

[ShepsEvo3]

The MAF - AFM relation is not like breathing through a straw, AFM´s don´t really hold you back that much, as I witnessed on Sal´s dyno when we put a AFM in front of a Alpha-N 2.7 it only lost 10hp and that was only above 5k and above 210hp. Below that there was the same exact HP.

I agree with this too, I've done much testing with AFM's in place and taken away, and it seems acording to the results that the AFM can flow just over 200bhp, so what you experianced at Sals dyno is exactly what I've been saying for a long while now.

MAF's and MAP's tend to be a little dead as in at low RPM there are less load sites to map than with a TPS, you have to move the throttle alot to get onto the next site. So the Alpha N style mapping give slightly better response.

Having said that, A/N style systems do not allow for changes in pressure and altitude. As usually an inlet temp sensor is fitted, air density depending on air temp is compensated for by the ECU, but not pressure. That can be gotten around by fitting a baro sensor, but would be a pain to get right.

The WAR plug and play looks very similar to the Hondata I've been playing with over the last year or so. Its a shame you can't do propper live mapping with it though - ie hold the car at set load and RPM site and adjust fuel and timing watching the power go up and down live.

However, I am tempted to try it on something myself.

[Gunni]

A piggyback such as SMT6 and newer can be fitted with a MAP TPS and Air temp so that you can run Alpha-N with Baro correction and Air temp adjustment making it a very efficient setup.

I´m not going against this as a solution for some, but to buy this setup just to do a MAF conversion sounds a bit excessive for not much.
This might be a great tool for Alpha-N with ITB conversions.

I can only assume that this will later work Live when they get more time with it.

Somebody should at least post up the OEM tables for others to see.

[DaveD]

I can't comment on your technical conclusions as I have no know,edge on this but the "WAR" chip is a separate purchase ...the MAF comes with a chip written for it ...at least mine did!

[Gunni]

If you would understand what I did write then you´d see I mention this as a good solution to something a MAF has nothing to do with

Alpha-N with ITB´s

[Jon_Bmw]

Hardware already exist to remap live with some versions of Motronic... I have one. It is also much cheaper than WAR.

Once you have worked out the definitions it is 'fairly' straight forward. It is all a bit over my head, but my brother spent about an hour and worked out where most of the stuff was in the hex code. Previously a well known tuner(mi16) could not work out how to change the rev limit on a particular mi16 ecu number...my brother worked it out in about 5 minutes.

There is a new software in the pipeline that data traces so that you can see what load point on any given map it is using and this should make DIY tuning easier(with access to a rolling road). With the help of the octane switch, you can have two maps that easily accessible with the flick of a switch...do you need more?

[DaveD]

[quote="Gunni"
I´m not going against this as a solution for some, but to buy this setup just to do a MAF conversion sounds a bit excessive for not much.
see.[/quote]

[Gunni]

Read the whole post, don´t just pick out information

[DaveD]

I did, and have done so again, and that is what you said...I am not criticising your arguments as I don't have the knowledge as i said but you don't have to buy this chip if you want to do the MAF conversion which is what you implied

[RM2186]

2 months and 4 pages later!....... where does this go from here?

[e301988325i]

Hardware already exist to remap live with some versions of Motronic... I have one. It is also much cheaper than WAR.

Once you have worked out the definitions it is 'fairly' straight forward. It is all a bit over my head, but my brother spent about an hour and worked out where most of the stuff was in the hex code. Previously a well known tuner(mi16) could not work out how to change the rev limit on a particular mi16 ecu number...my brother worked it out in about 5 minutes.

There is a new software in the pipeline that data traces so that you can see what load point on any given map it is using and this should make DIY tuning easier(with access to a rolling road). With the help of the octane switch, you can have two maps that easily accessible with the flick of a switch...do you need more?

Plug and play is what appeals, most of us mere morsels wouldn't be able to decipher hex code anyway. . .

Perhaps Jimi, you could offer a live demonstration of it working and being tuned or for someone to act as a guinea pig, with perhaps reduced cost or reduced cost rolling road time etc to get the ball rolling.

I'm interested but just waiting to see/hear how well it works. . . so is another LPG user on here. . .

[Jon_Bmw]

But the tracing software that is due to be released soon will 'show' you what part of the hex code is being used at a particular load point.

The definitions for a lot of motronic, including m20's are freely available anyway, meaning it should in theory be as 'easy' as WAR.

You have to realise, that a fair bit of marketing has gone into WAR, other products that do a fairly similar thing have been around for a long while. Fair play to WAR(but then I come from a marketing background. )

[e301988325i]

Fair enough but I still don't know what you're going on about, WAR has software for dummies

[fuzzy]

isnt that a dangerous combination? software that easy that dummies can alter everything?

[Jon_Bmw]

I'd have said so.

Anyone who thinks that they can get the most out of this hardware/software combination without the aide of a rolling road and some understanding of tuning is deluded. Ant made reference to this, in a slightly more PC way earlier.

[Gunni]

high quality tools don´t make good mechanics.

Let´s leave it at that

[--alpina--]

Ok, its been a while as i have been busy and things are running slow e.t.c. with the dealer.. i only just got to fit the W.A.R Chip this morning and i can tell you its a heavy piece of kit!!

I uploaded a file for the Gen III Maf, 2.8L file, standard 325 file... and whilst the car runs you can select the tune and hear the difference, for instance the 2.8l file which was custom made has a higher idle and the standard 325 file is normal idle so when i select between them you hear the idle change... and when i select the MAF the car runs erradicatly.. because of the signaling differences from AFM to MAF..... now as im running a 2.7 the 2.8 file caters better from me but as the idle is high it when i need to lower it... on the Tuning program itself that side of the program is still being developed which is coming out very soon.... i fitted the Maf but had a few issues with it, so i need to determine wether the Maf is the issue for not running properly, getting the correct voltage to it of the files are being uploaded are correct, i only spent a few hours on the W.A.R. Chip with the AFM.. the last 30 mins before i had to pack up is when i started playing with the MAF so i need to get back down to my garage and spend a few hours on the MAF rather than the AFM!!! once its setup to run ill video it with the laptop connected and uploading files and starting the car e.t.c. so you get a clearer ideas of what you would be doing if you had this gear, Whilst the car is running and then you decide to plug the laptop in to the usb the car automatically shuts off - would be good to live remap it but this gear wont allow it, wether the program is like this but i will find out if any future update releases of the tuning program will live re-map... anyway regarding a Rolling Road, i recomend a good run and be done theory.. once you have the setup you can save the file and play around with it if need be when you decide to alter the engine e.t.c.

Soon miller will be bringing out a video of how to alter the perameters and what does what which is basically an Idiots guide to W.A.R. Chip programming which will help the novice to get to grips with it.. once you get the general idea of the programming it all comes easy!!!


Cheers

J

I was once told whilst working for bmw as a technician that " your only as good as your tools"!!!! which is true!

[Ant]

Thread moved, its not exactly a for sale thread is it Jimi ?

TBH I think you'd do well to complete your R+D ( as Millers' current dealer ) before selling in bulk dude.

[daimlerman]

Thread moved, its not exactly a for sale thread is it Jimi ?

TBH I think you'd do well to complete your R+D ( as Millers' current dealer ) before selling in bulk dude.

Huuum,this thread will find a proper home one day,so the current state of play is that this device will work fine on a standard 325i but is unhappy with a modified engine?
Well,it's of most interest to those of us with modified engines,so we will continue to hold on to our hard earned until we are certain that it will be of benifit to us.....

[--alpina--]

From a selling point of view this has turned out to be a discussion on the package...Im getting questions left right and center about the W.A.R Chip , so i cant ignore them but to discuss more about it, so the only way to get across for what this product does is to test myself and feedback to the guys asking me these questions and then they can determine themselves.. in reality a simple read up should be good enough and then minds should be made up wether to purchase or not... so as i have one being tested i wont bother with this then. i leave it at that then... best way i reckon is stick to an AFM and a generic performance chip and be done with.. or rolling road for the day e.t.c.


J

[Morat]

feeling sorry for those who've ordered a megaqsquirt

Not quite the same thing....

[DaveD]

From a selling point of view this has turned out to be a discussion on the package...Im getting questions left right and center about the W.A.R Chip , so i cant ignore them but to discuss more about it, so the only way to get across for what this product does is to test myself and feedback to the guys asking me these questions and then they can determine themselves.. in reality a simple read up should be good enough and then minds should be made up wether to purchase or not... so as i have one being tested i wont bother with this then. i leave it at that then... best way i reckon is stick to an AFM and a generic performance chip and be done with.. or rolling road for the day e.t.c.


J

Are you losing site of the fact that it is a package of 2 items ..the chip, which I feel is great if you know what you are doing or are prepared to wait and get off the shelf programmes and the MAF which does what it says on the box and comes with its own chip which doesnt suit all combinations ...but I have run the MAF for 2 years and have been very pleased with..especially the smooth running at low revs and the increase in torque....its priced fairly for the gains you get

[--alpina--]

Are you losing site of the fact that it is a package of 2 items ..the chip, which I feel is great if you know what you are doing or are prepared to wait and get off the shelf programmes and the MAF which does what it says on the box and comes with its own chip which doesnt suit all combinations ...but I have run the MAF for 2 years and have been very pleased with..especially the smooth running at low revs and the increase in torque....its priced fairly for the gains you get

Not losing site of anything, See the thing is, loads of guys here pm`ed me requesting info on the W.A.R. Chip NOT the maf, maf is the additional thing for the war chip if needed, and when i emailed these info it was only the war chip NOT the MAF allthough stated in the (subject) A W.A.R CHIP & GEN III MAF -----------------. the primary subject that people were interested was simply the war chip...

And if you already have the maf, all you need is a war chip to play with if your interested in that kind of thing, for people who has the AFM and has the war chip or looking to purchase the war chip, you can benefit as much as the AFM gives, this is why when fitting a MAF and war chip it turns out to be a good combination. You DONT have to have the maf to enjoy the WAR Chip capabilities!! and also money is an issue for some ... all depends what your after for what application the vehicle is used for.


J

[ShakeyC]

Iv spent some time reading through this threads, millers own sites and some others elsewhere and my general opinions as follows:

Nobody really understands what's its purpose since you can buy specific chips to suit your own spec within the UK for considerably less money and less risk as someone else has done the hard work building the maps for each spec of engines with proven records.

I also agree with fuzzy its also highly dangerous giving people with a little bit of basic knowledge the access to screw up thier own engine and who will these people blame when they do? certainly not themselves

The miller war chip your paying for a OE map not a tuned one? I used a similar package for Fords and Vauxhalls but you pay for an already professionally tuned maps not just one but 5 and 2 of these is open to further editing which seems to be a much better value and safer idea.

Also i think its important to mention not everybody has access or willing to buy the required hardware to actually properly map thier own cars via the millers war chip and i genuinely fear people ragging it up and down roads staring at a laptops and potentially causing fatal accidents.

[--alpina--]

" i genuinely fear people ragging it up and down roads staring at a laptops and potentially causing fatal accidents."


You cant Live Remap. - thought you read this thread..

Everyone has their opinions with this gear, if you have a chip in your car and get the file you can upload to war chip and play with that file but its understandable there may be people who are imcompetant to play around with this gear, but everyone has there own thoughts of this.