b27 turbo on LPG?

Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:05 pm

as the title really.

i was just wondering if it was possible to run an m20b27 with a turbo & LPG?

if any one out there can help then i would be gratefull even if it is a big fat no then post up.

so guys & gals let me know.

thanks.

steve.

Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:06 pm

It can be done, nothing is impossible. But why?

Reliability will be shit if not done properly and sounds like a waste of time & money.

Alot of engine components need lubrication from oil especially in older engines. By modifying that and then using LPG, it will indeed need some tinkering to get it right.

Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:14 pm

e30_singh it was just a thought really.

i'm sat in the car on my net book typing this while waiting for my missus to finish shopping & i'm a bit bored that's all.

Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:59 pm

e30_singh wrote:It can be done, nothing is impossible. But why?

Reliability will be shit if not done properly and sounds like a waste of time & money.

Alot of engine components need lubrication from oil especially in older engines. By modifying that and then using LPG, it will indeed need some tinkering to get it right.

but why ?? fuel at about 50p a litre i would have thought , as for a lot of engine components needing lubricaton ,im not rlly sure what your tryin too say , the back of the valve ,or piston rings not havein petrol on them ?? i have a merc e280 and is on its second lpg kit wich is 3 years old now ,and god nows how long the one before it was on it ,its done 150,000 miles and has never had the head off ,still has good compression and runs smooth as .

Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:06 pm

Would be an excellent conversion, although perhaps not the most simple! Not sure I'd bother with the 2.7 bit though - a 2.5 can be made to produce more than enough power (at least to start with) in turbo form, and there's a lot less expense if things get broken!

e30_singh wrote:It can be done, nothing is impossible. But why?

Reliability will be shit if not done properly and sounds like a waste of time & money.

Alot of engine components need lubrication from oil especially in older engines. By modifying that and then using LPG, it will indeed need some tinkering to get it right.

What does running on LPG have to do with lubrication? It's actually a lot better for your engine oil...

Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:12 pm

& just off the top of my head, the higher equivalent octane rating of LPG would be extremely well suited to a turbo build...

Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:31 pm

I think e30_singh means the engine gets a bit dry from lack of petrol lubrication, although I've heard this isn't much of a problem with m20's.

Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:38 pm

liquid079 wrote:I think e30_singh means the engine gets a bit dry from lack of petrol lubrication, although I've heard this isn't much of a problem with m20's.

i have spoke to the guys down the local moterest centre ,they said the is a guy with a bedford rascal with lpg and he keeps burning valves out he had to put some sort of oiler in line , but german cars seem too be ok , the all start on petrol until there warmed up so its not like the never see any petrol .

Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:26 pm

bigbhpwannabe wrote:i have spoke to the guys down the local moterest centre ,they said the is a guy with a bedford rascal with lpg and he keeps burning valves out

Some engines suffer from valve/seat erosion when run on LPG. This is due to "soft" materials being used by the engine manufacturer. As posted above, this can be overcome with an in-line UCL-type additive. It doesn't apply to the M20 engine - or any other BMW engine that I am aware of.
I can't see any problem with running an M20B27 with a turbo on LPG.
I've run firstly an M20B20, then a M20B27 on LPG for over 30k miles in 2 years with no LPG related problems. IIRC, Brian has at least one 325i that has done over 100k on LPG with no problems.

bigbhpwannabe wrote:all start on petrol until there warmed up

My 2.7 only needs petrol to start first thing in the morning if the ambient temperature is lower than about 8deg C. Other than that, it starts on LPG all the time.

e30_singh wrote:Reliability will be shit if not done properly and sounds like a waste of time & money.

Care to expand on that???
There's nothing unreliable in running on LPG providing the system is installed correctly and maintained properly. OK, so you did say "if not done properly" but it's not exactly difficult to do properly.
It certainly isn't a waste of time because it saves money.

Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:03 pm

There's nothing unreliable in running on LPG providing the system is installed correctly

You answered your own question.

Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:21 pm

e30_singh wrote:
There's nothing unreliable in running on LPG providing the system is installed correctly
You answered your own question.

....And I also said

it's not exactly difficult to do properly.

More often than not, "unreliable LPG system = unreliable installer".

Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:21 pm

StuBeeDoo wrote:
bigbhpwannabe wrote:i have spoke to
bigbhpwannabe wrote:all start on petrol until there warmed up

My 2.7 only needs petrol to start first thing in the morning if the ambient temperature is lower than about 8deg C. Other than that, it starts on LPG all the time.
i should not hae said all

mine will start on petrol all of the time , first start of the day its on petrol for about 2 mins once warm if you turn it off ,and start it again it starts on petrol and chages to lpg after bout 3 seconds atomaticly. gary

Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:33 pm

Peter Tidbury had just filled his Peugeot 607 with 40 litres of gas at a service station and was driving at around 30mph.

He could smell gas in the car and passed it off as remnants from the petrol station but it was in fact a cloud of fuel in the cabin.

Mr Tidbury decided to smoke a cigarette and the second he ignited the lighter, its flame sparked a fireball.

The windows were blown out and the bonnet and boot were thrown open by the force of the blast.

Nearby householders were evacuated for fear of a further explosion and the windscreen was discovered 50 feet away.

His clothes melted on him and firefighters believe he survived serious injury or death because the seats took the force of the explosion.

He had bought the car privately for £5,000 three weeks earlier and two garage checks gave it a clean bill of health before he got behind the wheel.

Mr Tidbury, 55, an energy-saving company manager, who needed hospital treatment for minor flash burns, said: "It just wasn't my day to die."

Mr Tidbury, a widower from south-east London, drove to northern England last weekend to visiting his daughter and friends.

After a website to locate a filling station selling LPG, he filled up in Monk Bretton, Barnsley, South Yorkshire.

He said: "I was told you get a slight smell of gas when you fill up so thought nothing of it and wound the window down to freshen the air and put it back up again.

"I fancied a fag so wound the window down again slightly and then lit up. I was doing about 30mph and as I lit the cigarette there was an almighty explosion.

"The windows went out, the bonnet went up and the boot went up just as you see in the Hollywood movies. I was belted in and braked sharply. I can't remember this but I was told that I was directing traffic around the car whilst my suit jacket was still smoking.

"The fireball singed me on my face, hands and legs and melted my jacket lining and some of my shirt. I looked as if a firework had exploded in my face."

It is thought a leak in the pipe from the filler to the fuel tank allowed gas to seep into the car which ignited when he lit up.

He added: "When I walked past that car to get in the ambulance I thought that was not survivable. For me it is miraculous."

Mr Tidbury has ruled out buying another LPG car and has no intention to quit smoking.

Fire station watch manager Neil McQuillan said: "The car looked like a hand grenade had gone off in it. How anyone can survive an explosion like that when the car is severely damaged is remarkable really."

Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:03 pm

e30_singh wrote:two garage checks gave it a clean bill of health before he got behind the wheel.

I read this at the time it was published.
It doesn't say if the garages which did the "checks" actually knew anything at all about LPG systems, or if the LPG system was specifically checked.

But FFS, if you smell gas in the car you don't light-up!

If the LPG system is installed correctly, there should never be any gas vapour within the car. There was obviously something seriously wrong with the LPG system on that car.

Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:08 pm

Lucky guy or unlucky depending on how you view it. With LPG don't use NGK spark plugs they get eaten alive. Stick to the Bosch one if you already don't.

Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:30 pm

And the moral of the story is ....

Smoking can be dangerous to your health!

Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:06 pm

But FFS, if you smell gas in the car you don't light-up!

I agree thats just common sense, but this guy is an old boy. So he lit up anyway!

Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:16 pm

I thought ngk were best for lpg!

Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:23 pm

well thanks for all the reply's guy's but like i said earlier i was just bored & thinking aloud.

as for the LPG bit......i have been in a few cars running on gas & i can see the benefits but i haven't got a clue where to look for a kit & someone to fit it for me,

so if any of you now plenty about it then please let me know.

thanks.

steve.

Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:59 pm

some lexus soarers run on lpg (3l bi turbo jobbies)

the 100 octance fuel improves performance.

I have also heard of conversions where it runs on lpg under certain revs, then switches to petrol above other revs.

Q

Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:51 am

Quaser wrote:.

I have also heard of conversions where it runs on lpg under certain revs, then switches to petrol above other revs.

Q

No correctly designed and installed LPG system needs to do this!

Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:58 am

StuBeeDoo wrote:If the LPG system is installed correctly, there should never be any gas vapour within the car. There was obviously something seriously wrong with the LPG system on that car.[/b]

Every pipe and fitting inside the boot or cabin of a car carrying LPG is required to be contained inside another airtight container or tube which is vented to the underside of the car, so any leak in any of the pipework, should be vented underneath the car.

Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:32 am

Brianmoooore wrote:
StuBeeDoo wrote:If the LPG system is installed correctly, there should never be any gas vapour within the car. There was obviously something seriously wrong with the LPG system on that car.
Every pipe and fitting inside the boot or cabin of a car carrying LPG is required to be contained inside another airtight container or tube which is vented to the underside of the car, so any leak in any of the pipework, should be vented underneath the car.

Preeeeecisely!