M20 Individual Throtle Bodies

[Laimis]

I need website link about custom M20 ITB made from dual suzuki or another bike TB's....
It was posted somewhere in this forum, but i can't find
Thanks

[Laimis]

Ok, i found it myself.

If anyone interested ... http://www.e30tech.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6275

[Stevin]

Rather run S50 Throttles... they work much better, and suit the engine displacement much better than the Bike throttles.

Dude here in SA with a 2.7lt with throttles... damn that thing is quick

[Jhonno]

they are 40 something mm tb's - perfectly adaquate for a 2.5 m20

[Turbo-Brown]

According to Jenvey's website, 40mm is enough for about 50bhp per cylinder (N/A) which would make 300bhp.

The ones I'm making are 40mm dia

[Andy335Touring]

According to Jenvey's website, 40mm is enough for about 50bhp per cylinder (N/A) which would make 300bhp.

The ones I'm making are 40mm dia

Yeh,but your babies are going to be force fed !

Sounds like my 45mm's are going to be a bit OTT

[Turbo-Brown]

The only problem with over large TBs is progression off idle I think, but wouldn't have thought you'll have any probs with 45s

[Sjoerd320i]

they look pretty neet

someone nicked my avatar

[Laimis]

Rather run S50 Throttles... they work much better, and suit the engine displacement much better than the Bike throttles.

Dude here in SA with a 2.7lt with throttles... damn that thing is quick

Can u give more info about s50 tbs, project website, etc ? I don't believe that they are 'bolt on'

[keggy]

mite be interested in adding throttle bodies to my e36 318is engine im stickin in the e30 wot size of throttle bodies would i use??

[Widge]

I'm planning on doing the gsxr 600 ITBs on my 2.7 when I do it. But hwat is the S50 TB's and how much modifying do they need?

[Jhonno]

I'm planning on doing the gsxr 600 ITBs on my 2.7 when I do it. But hwat is the S50 TB's and how much modifying do they need?

alot i should imagine.. they are quite a bit different..

[jmc330i]

But hwat is the S50 TB's and how much modifying do they need?

alot i should imagine.. they are quite a bit different..

Yep, alot. Ive just compared my S50 TBs up to my M20 and it would take some work to get them to fit.

12 studs/bolts holding the M20 intake on - 9 for the S50 TBs in a totally different pattern. I havent got the M20 intake off the engine, but would guess the intake ports are a different shape and most likely they wont line between block and TBs either.

It would probably be possible, but at what cost or amount of work would be anyones guess.

The bike TBs would probably be the best bet for a DIY project.

[Widge]

OK I plan on doing mine like this


I'll keep the injectors in the standard place, and use the injector apatures on the TB's for the ICV, as I'm planning on running them with a phlenum, AFM and motronic to start with. At least till I can get MS and run them with trumpets and sock filters Hmmm must learn hoe to weld ali...........again

[dazleeds]

FOOKIN HELL WOW

widge mate we need to talk
can i do that to the 3litre?? looks evil

and i bet the sounds awesome

Daz

[Widge]

Daz that's not my car!!!
These were made by a guy in the states, but it's pretty simple really. I think the phlenum chamber could be interesting as the thermostat and the brake servo will get it the way to some extent. Yeah you could do it to the 3 ltr but if you did I would seriously suggest some better engine management so you could run it on trumpets and sock filters - which would sound amazing.

[Sjoerd320i]

But hwat is the S50 TB's and how much modifying do they need?

alot i should imagine.. they are quite a bit different..

Yep, alot. Ive just compared my S50 TBs up to my M20 and it would take some work to get them to fit.

12 studs/bolts holding the M20 intake on - 9 for the S50 TBs in a totally different pattern. I havent got the M20 intake off the engine, but would guess the intake ports are a different shape and most likely they wont line between block and TBs either.

It would probably be possible, but at what cost or amount of work would be anyones guess.

The bike TBs would probably be the best bet for a DIY project.

wouldn't be to hard to make another fitting plat to bolt on to the head and weld the tb's on, if you know what I mean? just take the old plate that bolts to the head of the s50 tb's and weld a home made or costum made one on there. (makes sense? )

dunno about the ports tho

[Turbo-Brown]

Bearing in mind the power loss people experience with K&N style induction jits, would it not be a better idea to use an air box with the TBs which is fed from a bog ol' filter rather than the socks?

[Jhonno]

socks are not good for power anyways

you want a proper sausage filter

[Widge]

Sorry mate what do you mean by a saussage filter?

An Turbo Brown, that's what I'm going to do to start with whilst I'm running the motronic fuel injection with it. Who knows I may like it and leave it like that

[Andy335Touring]

Daz, if you can find some TB's from an M5 you can make them fit the M30, it's quite a bit of work involved though.

If you have a mate that can TIG weld CAST aly then you can chop the mounting lugs off the TBs and the M30 inlet manifold, bin the mounting lugs from the TB's and weld the M30 lugs to the TBs. You will have to smooth the ports off but nothing major.

If i had known that you could weld cast aly OK then i would have done mine that way. I was told by a local engineering firm that you couldn't weld caste aly but this was bull sh!t as i have now found a place that can do it and have the TIG welder capable to do it.

This is what a chap in the US has done in this picture.



I've made an adapter plate but it's a lot of work sorting the ports out to flow smoothly from the differant port shape of the TBs to the ports of the M30. I had to fill a dip in the TB ports with weld and then grind the ports in the TBs and the adapter plate. All this pissing about grinding was p!ssing me off so i have not touched them for weeks.

Heres a few pictures of my bodge job so far

This is an old M30 inlet gasket held in front of the M5 TBs to show the differant port shapes.



I was just starting to tap the holes for the studs that hold the TBs to the adapter plate.



This shows the weld that i had done to fill in a dip in the ports of the TBs and care fully grinding the mating faces flat.



Thats about as far as i've got so far, i've got to replace the drill i burnt out the last time i worked on the TB's !!!

Bike or M5 TBs are going involve quite a bit of work but i don't know the cost differances between them ? I think Toby Unna said he had seen some M5 Tbs go on ebay a while a go for 200 quid ?

[Widge]

That's ane awesome project man! Well done, now get it finished and tell us what it's like

I think the bike TB's although not perfect will be a lot less hassle than that mate, to be honest.

[dazleeds]

cheers andy
they look sweeet mate
my engine not done yet so this is just a thort at the moment but could be awesome on the m30

given me plenty to think about lads cheers Daz

[Widge]

You need to do somthing with a car Daz, rather than collecting them and then taking them to pieces

I think you are going to really enjoy the M30 conversio, then you will get a taste for modifying like this

[dazleeds]

always had the taste mate

getting me garden done and garage put up when i get to it few weeks time then the fun begins mate
its all thats been holding me back is the lack of indoor workspace Daz

[E30BeemerLad]

I have an unhealthu interest in bolting on some bike carbs

I have been quoted Ԛ£700 for a drive in/ drive out job by some lads that are no stranger to bike carb conversions. Called Bogg Bros, they are near Scarborough.

[Andy335Touring]

Sounds decent value, do they still use the standard ECU with them ?

[Jimbob]

Doubt it would be that price with a different management system

[E30BeemerLad]

why would another management system be needed for bike carbs? No management would be needed with an engine with a dizzy? or am I talking complete toss?

[Widge]

Ԛ£700 !!!!! Surely they include a MAF conversion too
I'd be interestd to know how they would do it, what bike TB's and what fuelling control they would use.

And by bike carbs I assume you mean fuel injection throttle bodies, not actual carburettors!

[Andy335Touring]

You would need a plenum to collect the air so you can use an AFM to retain the old ECU ?

[Widge]

Fraid you are talking toss mate!
If you actually mean carbs then you would need a distributor from like a 323 or somthing to do the spark. itherwise with ITB's you'd need a phlenum chamber to feed the TB's from the air flow meter so that the ecu knows how much air the car is using.

[E30BeemerLad]

I'll have to ask them how they do it
Mind you that's a lot of wedge, more than i paid for the car!

Any ideas what performance these would likely make?

[Widge]

They may not increas performance at all, but they will definetly improve throttle response. They will probably increas performance by flowing more air but will probably be limited by the injection system and it's ability to understand how much more air the car is flowing.

[Andy335Touring]

I think you would be able to use carbs with a plenum,original AFM and ECU.

Just because you don't have the injectors connected doesn't mean the ECU can't look after the sparks as normal ?

It wouldn't be much good though as i think either way you do it (TBs or carbs) you would want some way to change the maps to tweak it for the changes of air in put ?