My E30/R5Turbo track car - Gearbox MkIII

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GeoffBob
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Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:14 pm

Well, now's as good a time as any to formally introduce her to this forum. A few of you that followed my cryptic html links to some of the other forums have asked that I post her up here, so here she is: My R5Turbo, built using E30 suspension components and a turbocharged Toyota engine :mad: Not your most logical project car, but she weighs next to nothing and goes like stink, so well worth the effort.

The story begins in early 2007 when I was deciding what to do with an old R5TS. It wasn't worth selling and I wasn't interested in restoring it (not another one) so I thought I would butcher it for a bit of RWD fun.

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A friend recommended, given the similarity of the e30 track-width to the R5turbo, that I consider building a look-alike car using e30 parts. When I gave it some consideration I realised that this was going to amount to a lot more than a hatchet job, so I set about making a proper project of it. It took about five months of CAD work just to sort out where everything was going to fit.

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I worked extensively with an engineless 325i I picked up from the scrappy. I marked all the sub-frame mounting points and parts of the e30 body on the underside of the 325i and slowly built a 3D CAD model of the e30 front and rear frame. I then did the same for the R5TS body.

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The product of all this design work was a mild-steel tubular chassis that essentially joins the E30 front and rear sub-frames to the remains of the R5TS mild-steel body.

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As with any quality R5, the bottom of the A-pillars were substantially rusted. All rusted bits were ultimately cut out and replaced with new stainless sheet metal during the course of the project.

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This is her without her engine during the early stages of the project. The wheels are 15" 3-piece Gotti split rims.

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And with the engine and drive-train in place, but without the body.

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To improve the weight distribution (and reduce the moment of inertia about the vertical), the four-cylinder Toyota 3SGTE engine is pulled back with its sump bowl behind the E30 cross member.

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The Toyota 3SGTE is a factory turbocharged engine that heralds from the FWD Japanese Celica. Fortunately it is easily mated to a Toyota RWD gearbox, such as the indestructible W55 or W57 boxes, using a modified 4Y bell housing. The 3SGTE is the most highly race developed engine produced by Toyota, and has a fantastic track and rally history. You can view some of its achievements here (well worth a look IMO): http://gt4dreams.free.fr/rip/3sgteinfo.htm

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However, to unleash some of the 3SGTE's potential requires a custom inlet manifold, custom exhaust manifold, and in my case (to get it to fit) a custom sump. I also threw off the Toyota CT26 turbocharger in favour of a Garrett GT3267.

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Once I was happy everything fitted, I sent the frame off for sandblasting.

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BTW, the roll-cage and chassis are integral (what I call my frame). They don't have nearly enough strength to perform on the track without each other. They effectively stop each other from buckling. Unlike a monocoque E30, the body on this car provides very little strength, and has thus been stripped to only the A, B and C pillars, and the roof. The body is in fact little else other than visually pleasing.

This is my frame after applying a good quality 2K etch primer.

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And then with some more paint and the E30 suspension. By this point she was good for pushing around the garden, but the missus got tired of pushin'.

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The remains of the R5 body were then duly sandblasted, repaired, primered and painted. This is the roof. Sorry BMW fans :wink:

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The body is seam welded to the frame. The steering column is from an E36 in order to reach the aftward mounted seat.

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This is one of my favourite pics. Very minimalist. The radiator and intercooler are custom manufactured items, both my own designs.

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By this point in time I had begun to upgrade the dampers, springs and brakes as well.

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I built the fire-wall, floor-pan and transmission tunnel from 2mm aluminium tread-plate. This helps keep the weight down. Seat mounts and belt-mounts are from 3mm mild steel plate, through to the frame. The petrol tank is from sheet stainless, for reasons of strength. The tank sits directly behind the seat and can be accessed through a panel if required. The tank is a two-section baffled unit with two pumps. The battery sits more or less on top of the differential.

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Even the rear wheel arches are from aluminium.

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The pedals are a standard firewall mounted Tilton set. Front and rear brakes are on their own circuits and have their own master cylinders. I have also fitted a Bosch-5 ABS unit from a 7-series.

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Getting the differential in and out is so much easier when you have a bonnet in your boot.

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This is the engine more-or-less in place. Note that the engine has no mechanical coolant pump. I threw is off and replaced it with an idler pulley from a Subaru Forrester. To pump the coolant I am using a Davies-Craig electric pump that mounts at the base of the radiator. The pump is under the control of my Adaptronic ECU and is just brilliant at controlling the temperature of my engine.

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The Adaptronic ECU supports sequential injection and sequential ignition. I am thus using a quad coil-pack from an E36 to fire my plugs. The ECU triggers a four channel capacitor discharge ignition unit that connects to the coil-pack.

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To reduce weight even further I skinned the doors in aluminium. With the exception of the windscreen, all windows are polycarbonate plastic.

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And this is my instrument cluster.

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I have mounted an E30 speedometer on the centre consol for reference purposes, but isn't really required on the track. The gear knob is from one or other 50's vintage Renault that I picked up at a flea market.

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The remainder of the bodywork (bonnet, wings, bumpers etc) are made from GRP by Polytecnic in France. She may look like an R5 Maxi Turbo, but shes an E30 at heart 8) .

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More-to-come .....
Last edited by GeoffBob on Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:08 am, edited 11 times in total.
march109
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Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:30 pm

Bloody Jesus, if the stig built cars he'd be in the shed knocking that together right now. Thats a couple frogs short of a bag of frogs that is mate.
325i Tech 1 Touring, breaking.

2.5 high comp. M20, 3.64 LSD, Fully undersealed, Spax springs & Bilstein shocks, s/s exhaust, Alpina rep wheels and more.
rob_htid
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Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:49 pm

thats incredible ..
e21Jason
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Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:41 pm

totaly WOW

Are you in NZ by any chance

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Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:36 pm

Didn't expect anything less from you Geoff, serious stuff :thumb:
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Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:52 pm

Looks like he hails from South Africa 8)
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Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:55 pm

Looks good Geoff, but then i'd already seen it from the other links you had posted. :cool:

Jesus is going to cream his pants when he sees this.
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Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:12 am

Impressive isn't the word! 8O :cool: :cool: :cool:
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baptie0
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Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:30 am

amazing car jeff, it must go like a rocket.
triggerhappy21
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Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:42 am

Holy **** that is incredible!!!

At almost every stage of that build I dont think I could have resisted donuting around the garden.

Btw your favourite pic looks awesome!

Looking forward to the next installment
Andy325i
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Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:46 am

Your once step above AWESOME. I take my hat off to you.
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Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:55 am

That is excellent work there.
Keep it up and kepp the pics comming to. :cool:
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If you Got "Haters",Then your doing something Right!
CR24v??? Where's it all gone?? LOL
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Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:09 am

Wasnt expecting tat 8O
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deano325t
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Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:21 am

cracking project there dood..
awesome
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capri_rob
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Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:37 am

Amazing build !

I bet even B7 would grudgingly give respect to whats left of this Renault ! :D
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e30topless said : Proper BMW's have 4 headlights, last of the run was the E30 and E34/E32 anything after that is just complete shite
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Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:49 am

I'm waiting to see Jesus's reaction :mad:
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If you Got "Haters",Then your doing something Right!
CR24v??? Where's it all gone?? LOL
GeoffBob
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Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:42 am

Thanks guys for the awsome comments and fantastic response.

I'm originally from Tunbridge Wells, but currently working in Pretoria, South Africa. As you can see, I keep myself busy here. I'm very lucky in that the cost of scrap parts, donor cars and raw materials are relatively cheap. This advantage is, however, somewhat offset by the cost of importing quality aftermarket performance parts, so its a bit of a balancing act.

It's winter down here in the south, so at present I have her off her wheels to give me the opportunity to finish off some of the GRP panels. Getting them to bond properly is a job for Tigerseal, and requires a bit of time and patience to cure. I still have things like the roof trim, running boards, boot trim and a few other bits to glue on.

I'll post up more pics when I get a chance, and thanks again for all your comments. I'm not sure what Jesus' response to the car is yet, but if I keep throwing her round corners like I do I might find out sooner than expected :roll: so for time being I continue to take it easy.

Regards
Geoff
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Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:31 pm

That is a stunning project and if I wore a hat (which I don't) and had the impulse to doff, a doffing I would!

Joking aside - just an epic project and the execution is first class.
Theo
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Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:29 pm

You have neglected to mention something very important Geoff - what's the car go like!? What sort of power are you acheiving, and at what boost? What boost controller are you using?

P.S - Interesting to see you're from Tunbridge Wells, I live 10 miles down the road from there.
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Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:38 pm

too cool for school

Amazing project
GeoffBob
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Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:17 am

Thanks gents once again for the comments. Sorry I missed these. Seems the thread descended down the line before I spotted the above posts.

Theo, I plan to do a proper write up on the engine in the forced induction section at some point. The 3SGTE engine is highly modified, including all forged internals, a custom sump, custom radiator, custom FMIC, custom inlet manifold and custom exhaust manifold. The engine is under the complete management of an Adaptronic ECU, including idle, boost, electric water pump (the engine has no mechanical waterpump), both fuel pumps, sequential injection and sequential ignition. Spark is courtesy of a 4-channel CDI. This drives a quad coil pack from and E36. I am using the 24-toothed wheel and index wheel mounted on the end of the inlet camshaft (at the base of what used to be the distributor) to pass timing information to the Adaptronic. The setup includes a knock sensor and the obligatory wideband Lambda sensor for AFR measurements. The Adaptronic also has launch and traction conrol (enabled/disabled from toggle switches on the dash) which takes its speed/slip information from the ABS sensors on the rear wheels. A clutch switch tells the Adaptronic the status of the clutch.

I'll post dynographs etc and compare calculations with results etc when I do the proper write up. I'll also explain the process of how (after studying most of Garretts flow maps) I decided that the GT3267 turbocharger was the best suited to my application.

The picture below shows the engine during the early stages of testing with the power steering not yet connected and the throttle sprung-loaded with a piece of surgical silicone tied to the intercooler. Note also that the cheap cone air-filter at the turbo was to stop it from ingesting anything I dropped down the side of the engine. This is obviously not the location of the air filter!!

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Theo
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Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:56 pm

Such an awesome car Geoff, lovely fabrication work. I can't wait to see a detailed write up and some performance figures.

I'd love to make a custom sump for my car and get the engine right back in my engine bay like you have, it is nice being able to whip the gearbox off in 10 minutes though.
GeoffBob
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Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:17 pm

Thanks again Theo.
Theo325 wrote:I'd love to make a custom sump for my car and get the engine right back in my engine bay like you have, it is nice being able to whip the gearbox off in 10 minutes though.
With the exception of the spark-plug leads and the oil-cap I am not sure that there is anything I can whip off my engine in under 10 minutes :lol:.
The R5 was never exactly known for the space under the bonnet (although they did somehow manage to fit a spare-wheel in there).

My engine is essentially dry-sumped, but I needed somewhere to locate the oil reservoir, so I simply mounted it as a separate container under the engine. The interior of the reservoir is baffled to prevent oil starvation under high g cornering and braking. The aluminium reservoir is welded to the underside of the engine pan, so it looks just like a sump again. It's also a convenient spot to drain the turbo into. Unfortunately this was an item that I simply had to build since the FWD sump is completely incompatible with this application.

I have just ordered myself a set 15"x6J front and 17"x8J rear 5-spoke compomotives :banana: .

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The car should look something like this, with the exception of the paint work, when done.

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"It is amazing how many drivers, even at the Formula-1 level, think that brakes are for slowing the car down." - Mario Andretti
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Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:14 pm

Why have I not seen this till now :o Thumbs up fella. Alot of thought gone into that...
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Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:37 pm

8O wtf !

My Hat is most definately off sir...
Racing is living, everything else is just waiting...

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Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:08 am

GeoffBob wrote:I have just ordered myself a set 15"x6J front and 17"x8J rear 5-spoke compomotives :banana: .

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You git I soooooo want a set of these!!!
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Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:55 am

I would love to have the skill, ability, TIME, foresight...Truely amazing project, look forward to more posts on the build :cool:
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GeoffBob
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Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:49 am

Thanks again gents for the awsome comments. I'm pleased to see my project ticks the right boxes on the zone. Without an E30 body on top I wasn't sure how well she would be received. For years it was my ambition to attempt a project like this - this is the closest I have ever gotten (and probably ever will get) to designing and building my own car. From your own projects I am sure you can guess how much fun it must be to try something like this, and even my missus is happy as it keeps me out from under her feet.

Lloydie, as you say, time is an important part of a project like this. I only work on my car over weekends and holidays and it's been over two years of work thus far.

To give you all some idea of the time line: I started the design and collecting E30 parts in January 2007, and started construction in around June. By Christmas 2007 I had a basic rolling chassis on the ground with E30 subframes and wheels. By Easter 2008 I had the remainder of the frame (roll cage etc) together. By July 2008 what was left of the R5 body was over the frame and painted, and by Christmas 2008 I had the aluminium floor and firewall in. By January 2009 I had the engine in and started test driving the car. I am now in the process of applying finishing touches to the GRP body panels. I am still waiting for my GRP bonnet to arrive from France. I'll definately post more pics as I progress. One or two more weekends and I should have some colour down her sides.

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"It is amazing how many drivers, even at the Formula-1 level, think that brakes are for slowing the car down." - Mario Andretti
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Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:39 pm

:( i was so chuffd with myself getting the engine in my 5 today, but now ive seen this im a bit depressed.
Amazing work, especially the CAD work, did you do it yourself?
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GeoffBob
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Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:04 am

Sparkysparks wrote::( i was so chuffd with myself getting the engine in my 5 today, but now ive seen this im a bit depressed.
Amazing work, especially the CAD work, did you do it yourself?
No need to feel depressed Sparky, any progress is always worth celebrating :) Well done on getting your engine in!

Yip, did all the CAD work myself. Started out by making a photomodel of the R5 shell and then designing the E30 compatible frame to fit inside the shell using the measurements from the 3D photomodel. You're welcome to a copy of the CAD work if you want it.

BTW, which 5 do you have? If you don't yet have a project page for her the Retrorides site here might be a good spot for you to display her.
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"It is amazing how many drivers, even at the Formula-1 level, think that brakes are for slowing the car down." - Mario Andretti
Sparkysparks
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Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:48 pm

Its a 5 gt turbo im on the renault5gtturbo forum, but not rtoc yet, i have plenty of threads on there, ive put a td04 turbo from a scooby on it and melted a piston, im on my second rebuild now. Its running ok now though, just needs running in.
http://www.renault5gtturbo.com/forum/vi ... 8&start=80 theres the page if you can see it
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MarkT
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Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:33 pm

Looks an awsome project, your going to need the reaction times of a Jedi to catch the back end on this one?! lol
GeoffBob
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Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:59 pm

With a wheelbase of only 2.43m, only thing I'm going to need is an ambulance :roll: Well lets hope not :D although she has already proved herself to be a bit of handful during testing. We'll see what it leads to, hopefully nothing too dramatic.
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"It is amazing how many drivers, even at the Formula-1 level, think that brakes are for slowing the car down." - Mario Andretti
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Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:51 am

Wow, what a cool project! Your engineering skills are extensive Geoff, I do hope your piloting ones are as good, as I think they will need to be ! !
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Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:15 pm

could install the lotus style variable traction control to ease yourself into it, would be interesting to try to setup too.
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