m30 vs m60 engine conversion?

[Kit_L]

Hi just joined up to this site after it was recommended to me

I've located a 316i auto in mint condition, i've always wanted an E30 and now's my chance.

I want a powerful rwd car to add to my collection since i've already got an impreza type ra at 350bhp, I want something at least comparably quick.

The two engines i'm interested in are the 3.5 M30 and the 4.0 M60, i'm leaning toward the M60 because of the noise if nothing else ;)

From what i've read the M30 is now a well documented conversion, so advice and parts will be more abundant to keep costs at a minimum... what I really need to know is how much is it going to cost for me to do the M60 swap and what are the main problems that I would encounter with the build?

[Rav335uk]

Hi mate and welcome.

I've done a M30 conversion on my cab and its an easy swap.
No real headaches and can be done within 3-4 days start to finsh is all parts are to hand.
M60 is a nice conversion, but a bit of a ballache and more expensive to do as servo has to be moved, custom mounts, exhaust manifolds etc need to be done correctly.

With the m30 conversion , you'll hit 60mph in 6secs no probs with the right diff and onwards and upto 155mph.

Depending on what you want to use the car for then it up to you.
If your havdy with spanners, then go for the M60, but this will take alot of your time.
Take a look at the engine swap section for the 2 types.
Theres on from Jonsku, i think, whose doing a M60 conversion now.

Be careful on the wiring side of things on the 316, as there is a write up on this too, as it can cause a fire when swapping a 6pot into a 4 pot car.
HTH

[Jon_Bmw]

There is no way an m30 e30 will be as quick as your impreza if that is genuine power. An m60 e30 in standard guise might just be, but I bet the impreza will still feel faster due to the rush at 3500rpm.

[Kit_L]

Cheers for the welcome! If I were to go for the M60 I would need to know the approximate costs, do you know how much the mounts, manifolds...etc would run, or is there anyone you could put me in contact with, either a member here or company, to give me a better idea (i'll sling Jonsku a pm)?

I would have thought a turbo M30 would be more than enough or a M60 with a set of aggressive cams, I would rather keep the E30 n/a to be honest.

[nickso]

m60 is a bitch of a conversion compared to the m30. give oze30 a pm too as he has an m60 in his touring i think..

[Rav335uk]

Give Driftboy a pm on a tubo sample of the m30, it is supposed to be quick.
M30's can take upto 400bhp on stock internals, so i've been told.

[Kit_L]

Bugger the M60, i've just read this: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... p?t=887016

How can a 4.0 engine be 7" wider than a 5.7... dohc vs pushrod :/

[FormerMember]

Give Driftboy a pm on a tubo sample of the m30, it is supposed to be quick.
M30's can take upto 400bhp on stock internals, so i've been told.

It can take 600bhp basically in stock condition (9:1 CR E34 / E32 engine). ;)

[FormerMember]

Hmm... the costs. Here's some guideline:

-Engine 1000€
-6 speed transmission 1000€
-Motor mounts 300€
-Clutch, water pump, gaskets, belts etc little stuff 1500€
-Exhaust manifolds 200€
-Propshaft 250€
-some more little stuff.. ==> 5k€ easily.

Bugger the M60, i've just read this: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... p?t=887016

How can a 4.0 engine be 7" wider than a 5.7... dohc vs pushrod :/

Heheh, it's BIG

Here's comparision between M30 and M60

[Benho]

whoooa im guessing the m30 is the significantly smaller motor on the right?

surely the sheer increase in weight provided by the m60 would make the m30 easier and kinder in performance terms? the e30 would need one hell of a diet or am i completely wrong?

[DRIFTBOY]

But the M60 has aluminium block and heads, so they weigh about the same!

[Benho]

But the M60 has aluminium block and heads, so they weigh about the same!

ohhhh didnt know that

[FormerMember]

whoooa im guessing the m30 is the significantly smaller motor on the right?

Yes.

surely the sheer increase in weight provided by the m60 would make the m30 easier and kinder in performance terms? the e30 would need one hell of a diet or am i completely wrong?

Actually the M60 weights 3kg less than M30, but that's more than compensated in transmission weight..

Anyways, M30 is worse what comes to weight distribution because it sits so much further than M60.

[oze30]

Bugger the M60, i've just read this: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... p?t=887016

How can a 4.0 engine be 7" wider than a 5.7... dohc vs pushrod :/

Cheers Nickso.

It may be wider, but it's also lighter. That's also in an E36 which, I can tell you from practice, it doesn't fit without a lot of grief. An e30 is a different matter. It fits, but manifolds etc need to be modified.

Power wise,



Still have the dyno somewhere. It keeps up with E36 M3's just loses out slightly to E46 M3's and porches, but not so much that they laugh at you going "haha! Just beat you!", more of a "Crap, why is this thing still on my tail?" Good fun though. Great laugh when you get it sideways and hold it.

Will DEFINATELY do this again, when I get the funds and the 4.4 or, if I'm lucky, a 4.6. More of a ball ache, but well worth the funds.

[Kit_L]

I've just contacted fritzbitz, to see what can be done with the M42.

If I found a nice 318iS then I will keep the engine and tune it, if I go for anything else... i'll probably do a transplant eventually, m30 seems like a winner in terms of someting I can actually get finished and enjoy.

A 4.6 BMW V8 would sound so much better though...

[Morat]

Turbo a 325? Surely for the amount of grief you'd put yourself through for a V8 you'd be better off with the original engine (rebuilt if you like) and go with either the stock internals 280ish bhp or rebuild to low compression and go nuts?

[MJJ_ZX6RR]

It can take 600bhp basically in stock condition (9:1 CR E34 / E32 engine). ;)

I should not have read that. I *WAS* quite happy with my standard E32 lumped car ....

Martin.

[Kit_L]

Turbo a 325? Surely for the amount of grief you'd put yourself through for a V8 you'd be better off with the original engine (rebuilt if you like) and go with either the stock internals 280ish bhp or rebuild to low compression and go nuts?

It's all about the sound with the V8 and an M30 is allot cheaper than turboing a 325i properly, we'll see how it goes.

[e21Jason]

Given you seem to have a reasonable budget

The m30 is expensive to tune
The m60 is expensive to fit
An s14 or s38 is expensive to buy and even more to service/rebuild

What you want is an s50b30 easy to fit, good power single vanos so the electrics are easy and there are plently of them you can buy one for the price of doing a timing chain on an s14

If you want big power do not waste time tunning an m42 as it cheaper to do an engine conversion than tune an engine then swap it for another one

Jason

[Kit_L]

The m42 is the other extreme fast in and fast out, any of the other engine swaps would require slow in and fast out approach to twisties.

An S50B30 is a reasonable alternative

[jaistanley]

The S50B32 is a better bet in terms of having more power and torque for the same outlay (pretty much) as an S50B30. The dual VANOS does nothing to complicate the wiring. Only the EWS needs to be wired in and thats 4 wires.