Expert knowledge needed

[N00b]

I have an '89 325i touring and need a pair of "lollipops" (the spyglass shaped brackets that hold the large rubber bush on the end of each front suspension arm).
Can anyone tell me if this part is identical across the range or if different models have slightly different "lollipops"?

Thanks in advance.

[Simon]

Same right through the range, M3 included.

Also used on E36 and Z3's.

[N00b]

Same right through the range, M3 included.

Also used on E36 and Z3's.

Exactly the same part?
Thanks, that's very helpful.....although I simply cannot comprehend how some of the members here (yourself included) have what appears to be an almost encyclopedic knowledge of these cars.

[Simon]

Yep, exactly the same part.

I use the ETK, (BMW parts catalogue).

This has a function that when you look up a certain part, you can also view other uses for that part, it will then show a list of all models that part number is fitted to.

[N00b]

Yep, exactly the same part.

I use the ETK, (BMW parts catalogue).

This has a function that when you look up a certain part, you can also view other uses for that part, it will then show a list of all models that part number is fitted to.

Well whether it's this ETK, or voodoo, thanks for your help

[E30BeemerLad]

The lolipop is the same on all cars, but the bush that fits inside it is not, M3 ones are eccentric, but if you are replacing the bushes anyway, it is worth while fitting the M3 bushes to give a bit of extra castor angle and help stopping any squirming under braking.

[N00b]

The lolipop is the same on all cars, but the bush that fits inside it is not, M3 ones are eccentric, but if you are replacing the bushes anyway, it is worth while fitting the M3 bushes to give a bit of extra castor angle and help stopping any squirming under braking.

Going down the polybush route and from what I can gather the only drawback to fitting the eccentric M3 bushes is I'll have to get the alignment done again. However, as the bushes are the same price (M3/regular 3 series) I think I'd be crazy not to fit the eccentrics.

[Brianmoooore]

Alignment needs checking after ANY front suspension work, even if replacing like with like.
Leave the plastic rubbish to the Corsa/Saxo brigade, and fit GENUINE BMW M3 bushes.

[N00b]

Alignment needs checking after ANY front suspension work, even if replacing like with like.
Leave the plastic rubbish to the Corsa/Saxo brigade, and fit GENUINE BMW M3 bushes.

While I am far less informed about all things BMW than your good self, I have to disagree with your comment on Poly bushes. From a handling point of view, it's the rubber versions that are inferior as from the word "go" rubber begins to dry out and lose some compliance.

[Simon13]

i can think of 3 people who have suffered major failures from fitting these poly bushes where you plan to use them. They are toilet on a road car. You fit the M3 bushes and you won't have to touch them for £20 years they last that long.

[Elecblondie]

Alignment needs checking after ANY front suspension work, even if replacing like with like.
Leave the plastic rubbish to the Corsa/Saxo brigade, and fit GENUINE BMW M3 bushes.

While I am far less informed about all things BMW than your good self, I have to disagree with your comment on Poly bushes. From a handling point of view, it's the rubber versions that are inferior as from the word "go" rubber begins to dry out and lose some compliance.

Whereas the polybushes have very little compliance from the word "go".

[N00b]

Alignment needs checking after ANY front suspension work, even if replacing like with like.
Leave the plastic rubbish to the Corsa/Saxo brigade, and fit GENUINE BMW M3 bushes.

While I am far less informed about all things BMW than your good self, I have to disagree with your comment on Poly bushes. From a handling point of view, it's the rubber versions that are inferior as from the word "go" rubber begins to dry out and lose some compliance.

Whereas the polybushes have very little compliance from the word "go".

Indeed, which is why manufacturers don't fit them to road cars as standard due to the increased levels of NVH they tend to bring.

[Brianmoooore]

Rubber bushes are zero friction devices.
Polybushes introduce friction into the suspension system, which is not good!

[N00b]

Rubber bushes are zero friction devices.
Polybushes introduce friction into the suspension system, which is not good!

Zero friction is also called perpetual motion, which doesn't exist on planet earth or anywhere else in the universe.

[Brianmoooore]

OK, I'll agree that twisting a rubber bush produces a very small amount of heat, but compared to the friction in a polybush, it's close enough to zero for practical purposes.

[N00b]

OK, I'll agree that twisting a rubber bush produces a very small amount of heat, but compared to the friction in a polybush, it's close enough to zero for practical purposes.

Rubber is a far better jack of all trades, I don't think that can be disputed, but it cannot do the job a well formulated and designed poly bush can. Polyurethane is also self lubricating and far more resistant to oil/temperature/age (the same reason people replace the standard rubber coolant hoses with silicone versions) than rubber ever can be.

However, all polybushes are not created equally and if the manufacturer doesn't get it right for the intended application it can lead to component failure.

[gcs325i]

i can think of 3 people who have suffered major failures from fitting these poly bushes where you plan to use them. They are toilet on a road car. You fit the M3 bushes and you won't have to touch them for £20 years they last that long.

What happened to the car's with these fitted to be called a major failure? Only time I've see problems with these is when people have fitted them wrong. But as I'm running them I want to know what has gone wrong.

[N00b]

i can think of 3 people who have suffered major failures from fitting these poly bushes where you plan to use them. They are toilet on a road car. You fit the M3 bushes and you won't have to touch them for £20 years they last that long.

What happened to the car's with these fitted to be called a major failure? Only time I've see problems with these is when people have fitted them wrong. But as I'm running them I want to know what has gone wrong.

Agreed, and as well as hearing more detail about these failures I'd be interested in your opinions of them thus far.

[gcs325i]

i can think of 3 people who have suffered major failures from fitting these poly bushes where you plan to use them. They are toilet on a road car. You fit the M3 bushes and you won't have to touch them for £20 years they last that long.

What happened to the car's with these fitted to be called a major failure? Only time I've see problems with these is when people have fitted them wrong. But as I'm running them I want to know what has gone wrong.

Agreed, and as well as hearing more detail about these failures I'd be interested in your opinions of them thus far.

I've been running power-flex bushes for 2 and 1/2 years and have had no problems and am very happy with them. The obvious difference between rubber vs poly is road noise transmission in to the car but as my car is not a daily mile muncher I'm not bothered. But the other side of it is that genuine m3 bushes cost about a third of the power-flex units and do the same job so may be the way to go.

[N00b]

What happened to the car's with these fitted to be called a major failure? Only time I've see problems with these is when people have fitted them wrong. But as I'm running them I want to know what has gone wrong.

Agreed, and as well as hearing more detail about these failures I'd be interested in your opinions of them thus far.

I've been running power-flex bushes for 2 and 1/2 years and have had no problems and am very happy with them. The obvious difference between rubber vs poly is road noise transmission in to the car but as my car is not a daily mile muncher I'm not bothered. But the other side of it is that genuine m3 bushes cost about a third of the power-flex units and do the same job so may be the way to go.

How much are the Genuine bushes, as the powerflex lower arm items are about £20 per side IIRC.

[DHFiS]

How much are the Genuine bushes, as the powerflex lower arm items are about £20 per side IIRC.

£21.17 for a pair of M3 solid rubber offset bushes from Cotswold BMW.

[stonesie]

£22 the pair and were developed for and on the most sucessful touring car of all time, the E30 M3....
Can any polybushes match that kind of development?

[N00b]

How much are the Genuine bushes, as the powerflex lower arm items are about £20 per side IIRC.

£21.17 for a pair of M3 solid rubber offset bushes from Cotswold BMW.

About half of the price, so if you're running a car purely for the road then the genuine M3 parts could be an option if you don't want to trade the slight increase in precision for an increase in NVH.

[N00b]

£22 the pair and were developed for and on the most sucessful touring car of all time, the E30 M3....
Can any polybushes match that kind of development?

The M3 was a production road car. Think about that for a moment. It had to comply with hundreds of regulations and also had to have enough appeal to sell enough units. Most people simply are not prepared to put up with the noticeable increase in NVH in order to get a small increase in chassis precision.

[N00b]

£22 the pair and were developed for and on the most sucessful touring car of all time, the E30 M3....
Can any polybushes match that kind of development?

Look at this another way.
Are you suggesting that there are no possible upgrades for an M3?
That it's impossible to better the suspension setup, or braking system?

A production car, no matter how good, is a compromise. It HAS to be a compromise as first and foremost it has to shift a lot of units and you achieve this by attracting the largest number of potential buyers.

[stonesie]

The offset polybushes bring the pin of the wishbone to the same place in the lollypop as the OEM items which are vertually solid rubber, I can't see you really telling the differance on the road to be fair, the car might be slightly slower with the oem items but that will only be due to the extra weight in your wallet


Im not saying that it's impossible to improve on the system, but I don't think you can achieve enough improvment by fitting mass produced polybushes with a known tendancy to fail to make me fit them to my car even if you provided them for free.

If you really want it as solid as possible then get a pair of these from ground control

[N00b]

Hard to tell from that pic, but I'm assuming that "lollipop" is rose-jointed.
The perfect solution for the track, but really hard to live with on public roads.

[Globulator]

It sounds like you want poly bushes N00b, so I'd get those then.

Just don't expect anyone who knows these cars to recommend them

[N00b]

It sounds like you want poly bushes N00b, so I'd get those then.

Just don't expect anyone who knows these cars to recommend them

When you're talking about a sample pool as large as this, you're always going to get a lot of differing opinions (not everyone in this thread had -ve things to say.....unless, of course, you're suggesting that anyone who doesn't criticise these parts doesn't know the cars ).
Me, I'm still undecided. I didn't realise the M3 parts were so cheap, and as the car I'm putting together will be in no way, shape or form be described as focused then any extra precision the Poly bushes will give will be cancelled out by compliance elsewhere in the car. For example, I'm leaving the springs/dampers alone for this year and as the car has 144k on the clock they may very well be very tired.
However, the fact remains that polybushes do have a place. It's a place between rubber and rose jointing, but which is best for you depends on your requirements for the vehicle.

[stonesie]

So NOOb......... What will you be using the car for?

[N00b]

So NOOb......... What will you be using the car for?

A european trip of around 4000 miles, taking in the 'ring along the way. The car isn't a daily driver, but it will be required to lug four guys plus luggage around. Basically, I'm trying to replace any parts which could cause a breakdown.....and throwing in a few cheap upgrades along the way.

As it's been revealed (to me, anyway) that the genuine M3 parts are half the price of the Polybushes, these may be the better option for me. If the car was a lot more focused this may not have been the case though.

[gcs325i]

It sounds like you want poly bushes N00b, so I'd get those then.

Just don't expect anyone who knows these cars to recommend them

It's true I know f*ck all about e30's and the use of poly bushes
I'm sure everyone who doesn't like them has had poly wishbone bushes fitted to their own car and have actual experience of them as well.

[Rav335uk]

I have polybushes All Round, front and rears, subframe, arb, diff, etc,etc, and i'm very happy witht the way the car now performs and feels.
I have it as a daily user, and although a tad harsh, i feel it better than "wallowing" on the origional bushes I previously had.
I am happy with my set up atm, and wouldn't change back.

[Brianmoooore]

I have it as a daily user, and although a tad harsh, i feel it better than "wallowing" on the origional bushes I previously had.

Probably your problem exactly - this is what the advertisers of such stuff rely on for their claims.
If you had replaced the bushes, etc., will genuine BMW stuff, it would be every bit as 'tight' as it is now, without the harshness

[Rav335uk]

Do you really suppose so?
I wa always under the impression the were built as a medium for comfort, and not for throwing or hard accelleration on the car??
That's the reason I changed them, as i didn't want to be changing them every so often with the m30 conversion.