few m60 conv questions?

[oze30]

manifolds are the same for 3 or 4 litre

[Jonsku]

Jonsku, do you know what size torx it is?

I'm now away from garage so i can't check it. I had to grind the tool a bit also to make it small enough.

[Jonsku]

manifolds are the same for 3 or 4 litre

Yes, exhaust manifolds are same, not intake manifolds. Actually whole intake-side is different between 3 and 4 litre.

[citizensnips]

hmm, looks like if i want to ust the manual loom i'll have to take it off the 3 inlet and stick it on the four one, it is much smaller and neater then the manual one though so probably worth it

[citizensnips]

any ideas about my lack of pin number nine?

[Jonsku]

Damn this forum software hasn't got multi-quote so have to answer to all posts separately

do bmw do a single mass wheel or is it an aftermarket thing? , do you then need a different clutch to go with it as the depth will be less?

No single-mass flywheels available OEM, so aftermarket is the way to go.

M60, M62 and S62 have all same starter and flywheels bolt straight to each other, BUT M60 hasn't got the crank-speed sensor on flywheel, M62 and S62 have (but they've different null-point (about 25deg apart)). Though with M60 it doesn't matter because you don't have the sensor there on the bellhousing.

And then the clutch. 5- and 6-speed have different clutches depending on engine (M60B30 240mm (5-speed), M60B40 265mm (6-speed), M62B35 (5-speed), M62B44, S62b50 240mm (6-speed)). So you need to be sure that total height of clutch and flywheel will be the same as in your original flywheel-clutch combination.

I had the flywheel custom made, and i'm using S62 original clutch plate and Sachs E34 M5 3.6 race pressure plate (-765). Had to fiddle a bit because i'm using E39 M5 gearbox also.

What i'm trying to say, is that you can use all M60, M62 and S62 aftermarket flywheels and clutches but you need to know what parts are suitable. It's not so complicated as i wrote but can't say it in english clearer, sorry.

i had a look at your wiring thing jonsku, did you base it on the one on e30.de , it seems fairly straight forward, though mine behine chrome it appears not to have the number nine pin on the e30 side, think its engine speed

I've E34 and E30 original wiring schemes which i used in wiring. e30.de pin-outs aren't correct in my opinion. There're quite a lot of differences on E30's depending on yearmodels, so i recommend you finding the original schemas on internet and looking the pin-outs from them.

last but not least, do you know if the inlet manifolds and injectors ect are the same between the 3 and 4 litre, becuase i now have both manifolds one with manual loom and one with auto loom and trying to decide which to use, it'd be usefull if i could just stick the whole inlet with loom attached rather then swap the loom, with outlooking closely they look identical

You should swap the looms, it's not hard thing to do. Injectors and ECU's are same on B30 and B40.

Intake manifold, throttle body / housing (whatever it's called), MAF and intake pipe are smaller in B30 so you definitely need to use B40 stuff on that. It's easy to swap the whole thing, because all things are bolted on to intake manifold which is bolted to engine with just 10 nuts



Damn, writing these things makes me want to go building my cabrio but got to do some school and work stuff first

[citizensnips]

what do you study again its some sort of engineering isnt it?

i feel rather bad about asking all these simple questions considering i'm meant to be an engineer but we are busy as hell at work at the moment so just havent got any time to research the project, though it is good we are busy at work i suppose

[Jonsku]

what do you study again its some sort of engineering isnt it?

I'm studying naval architecture (M.Sc), economics (B.Sc) and combustion engines (B.Sc) in Helsinki University of Technology.

But, you know, after all these engines are just various parts bolted together. One doesn't need to understand very deeply how the things work, just how to connect them to each other

[oze30]

I have an M62B44 intake manifold and ecu loom spare, with drive by wire throttle, but it has holes for LPG injectors. Anyone need it?

[Jonsku]

I have an M62B44 intake manifold and ecu loom spare, with drive by wire throttle, but it has holes for LPG injectors. Anyone need it?

What throttle cable are you using in your E30-M60 car?

[oze30]

You know.. I have no idea. What it came with. I can see if it has a part number, but I'm thinking it's the cable for the e34/e32 M60BXX.

[suzie650]

Untill I redid the whole pedalbox, e34 M60 one.
It's too long, especially as it's a rhd engine in a lhd car, but you can tuck it neatly under the engine cover.

lhd e30 one is definitely too short.
HTH

[oze30]

What did you do with the pedal box?

[suzie650]

Tilton 3 cylinders overhung...
let say that it is "interesting" to mount with no rollcage to bolt to. And the throttle mechanism has to be modified as well, as it is in the way

I didn't want to go the "bmw rod" way (no way a cut in the inner wing to let it go through would have been accepted in CH) and remote mounted the original master with the 540 hydro booster with a "secondary" hydraulic system. (pedal actuated an ap master, which actuated a clutch slave, which in turn pushed on the booster).
Worked fine, but as I was about to drive home with it, the swiss authorities suddenly decided to deem it as "single circuit" and wouldn't have it anymore, despite their earlier ok.

So manual brakes it is now. Tiny masters, big 540 caliper and no trouble. Apart from the headache of getting it legal without paying the price of a new M3. How in God's name am I suppose to prove that a master cylinder or a pedal box is "fit for road use" if the manufacturers won't guarantee it?!? And that's before you start talking about the modified discs, the self designed and manufactured adapters and the welded subframe...

[oze30]

lol! Any pics? I'm running twin under the glove box, but If I could go pedal box dedicated pedal box, then woopee!!!

Another option, someone said that the E36 pedal box will fit. I'm still not sure on this, but it looks like it could as long as you can get enough clearance between the firewall and strut and width-wise, to clear the right bank (Or lft bank in your case).

[suzie650]

Fuse box, loom and a whole lot of stuff on the lhs isn't on the rh one. You've got a lovely battery tray to put whatever you want in. Much nicer!

Pictures? Well, I need to take a train, a plane, 2 more trains, a bus, walk into the middle of nowhere, find the car, hope that I haven't forgotten the camera, ask for my keys back, take pics, come back, post them...
Maybe easier to just say no.
But when it drives, I'll certainly take a whole lot of them and post a few. Just don't know when this blessed moment will be.

[citizensnips]

i'm planning to put a small master in the battery area. But in middle of moving workshop and in kansas for a week with work so no chance to do any research

[oze30]

Seb, how hard was it to mount the pedal box? Was thinking floor mounted pedals, but not sure now.

[suzie650]

A pain in the ***
But i'm not sure that floor mounted would be easier. The footwell floor isn't exactly flat on e30's...

[bigdek]

You know.. I have no idea. What it came with. I can see if it has a part number, but I'm thinking it's the cable for the e34/e32 M60BXX.

it is the e32 cable

[oze30]

This is how I mounted my resevoirs.


All bottles are bolted down and secure. Just need to cover the PAS lines with heat wrap or shield it from the exhaust so if it bursts, it doesn't ignite off the manifolds.

[citizensnips]

oze which fan radiator combo you using? any pictures of the master cylinders for the brakes?

bone engine question time as i really have no time for research

- on the back of the engine you have the twoi water outlets lets call them left and right when looking at the front of the car, which is out and which is in, conversely on the e30 which bulkhead outlet/inlet is heater in and which out, be it top or bottom?

- on the fuel rail which side is fuel in and which is tank return? , this may be obvious but its only occured to me just now and i've not checked closely

[oze30]

The inlet manifold fuel i think is the return as the FPR is there.
As you look at the car, RHS is the bottom matrix hose.
Rad I'm using a custom 3 core with E28 end tanks (SD1 rad basically, I can get a quote to build another one)
Fans, Using twin 12 inch, but I don't think they're getting enough flow to cool it at standstill. Need to make up some shrouds.

[Jonsku]

Fuel rail; the end with pressure regulator is the return-side.

Maybe this picture clears the water circulation (the lower pipe in heater matrix is the input (there's also a arrow in the pipe...)):

[suzie650]

courtesy of e30.de ?


And yes, it's out of the left head into the matrix, and out of the matrix into the middle main water channel. If the engine is out of an auto and you're going manual, you'll have to bypass or block off the two transmission cooler take offs, which are not shown on the diagrams. They're the smaller ones.

[Jonsku]

courtesy of e30.de ?


And yes, it's out of the left head into the matrix, and out of the matrix into the middle main water channel. If the engine is out of an auto and you're going manual, you'll have to bypass or block off the two transmission cooler take offs, which are not shown on the diagrams. They're the smaller ones.

Yes, e30.de rocks

If i'd be doing this again i'd buy M62 manual water pipe. In that the outputs are much more suitable to E30 than in M60. I had the pipe welded a bit so the waterthings are more suited to my needs.

[suzie650]

yes, the piping at the back of a standard M60 looks horrible.
Do you mean the backplate with the water in/outputs is different on an M62?

[citizensnips]

cheers for your help guys

I don't like asking these bone questions , but after spending every day sat infront of a computer designing stuff i can't face sitting infront of google for a few hours when i know you guys know already

So thank you

Not sure whats happening with project at moment as workshop is a bit up in the air. Will hopefully sort that soon